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Around the NHL VII - NHL Hockey Returns!

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Old
07-23-2012, 02:42 PM
  #101
SabresAreScaryGood
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Howson is terrible. No wonder they are the leagues worst franchise

That return is atrocious. But hey, now they can try to sell tickets with Jack Johnson as your building block
Kind of reminds me of Hasek demanding a trade. Its not easy when a player demands a trade. Regier actually had 2 of these and failed miserably on both trades, Peca and Hasek.

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07-23-2012, 02:42 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Nash - Richards - Gaborik

On a top defensive team. Not good. Torts will win a cup or 2 in NY.

LOL. The Rangers got a 65 point winger in exchange for two 40 point centermen who are younger and have more room to improve, a good prospect and an upgrade from a 3rd to a 1st. The rangers just lost a vital piece of their shutdown unit. What they gain in scoring they lose down the middle and on defense.

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07-23-2012, 02:43 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
You beat me to the punch with this.

I was just about to ask the following question to the forum:

If Buffalo could replicate the same deal involving Vanek for basically the same caliber pieces coming back, would you do it?
Agree with both of you

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07-23-2012, 02:44 PM
  #104
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Yeah, the Rangers weren't giving that up to get Nash.

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07-23-2012, 02:45 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgsAndGrigs View Post
Why? The flyers are so in love with their players they opted to offer 4 1st's in lieu of any roster players. They certainly weren't going to give up alot any more than the Rangers package for Nash when they wouldn't do it for Weber.
Or more specifically for Ryan, who's younger and as productive, who they were supposedly unwilling to give up Schenn or Couturier for.

Nash going to the Rangers gets him out of the Jackets conference (at least for now, we'll see what happens with eventual re-alignment).

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07-23-2012, 02:45 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Nash - Richards - Gaborik

On a top defensive team. Not good. Torts will win a cup or 2 in NY.
Take out names and add point totals...

59-66-76

Also, you now only have to stop one line.

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07-23-2012, 02:46 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by GirgsAndGrigs View Post
Why? The flyers are so in love with their players they opted to offer 4 1st's in lieu of any roster players. They certainly weren't going to give up alot any more than the Rangers package for Nash when they wouldn't do it for Weber.
You don't quite understand the concept of playing teams against each other. Division rivals no less who will be looking to block the other from getting the player.

Also the Weber situation isnt the same. They didn't have to trade for Weber with the offersheet option. They have to trade for Nash if they want him.

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07-23-2012, 02:46 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
LOL. The Rangers got a 65 point winger in exchange for two 40 point centermen who are younger and have more room to improve, a good prospect and an upgrade from a 3rd to a 1st. The rangers just lost a vital piece of their shutdown unit. What they gain in scoring they lose down the middle and on defense.
Yeah, it doesnt really work like that. The Rangers get a 1st line player for 2 3rd line players, a prospect and a pick.

Sabres fans should know the difference between 1st line players and 3rd line players, big difference.

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07-23-2012, 02:47 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
LOL. The Rangers got a 65 point winger in exchange for two 40 point centermen who are younger and have more room to improve, a good prospect and an upgrade from a 3rd to a 1st. The rangers just lost a vital piece of their shutdown unit. What they gain in scoring they lose down the middle and on defense.
You need to be put in your place sir. First of all. Turn that 65 point winger Nash into an 80 point winger playing on a good team with those two players on his line.

They lost a d prospect...oh darn Girardi,McDonuagh and Staal say hi.

Take those wingers and decrease their point total playing on a total bust of a team. Please stop saying Nash is only a 65 point player when he played on the epitome of a disgrace.

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07-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Yeah, it doesnt really work like that. The Rangers get a 1st line player for 2 3rd line players, a prospect and a pick.

Sabres fans should know the difference between 1st line players and 3rd line players, big difference.
Yeap and Nash is no longer a 1st line winger. He is just declining.

Both Dubie and Ani have room to grow. Wouldn't be shocked to see Dubie go back to 50 points next year.

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07-23-2012, 02:49 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
No **** I'm just talking in general. We wouldn't have done a deal with them and we were never rumored to get him.
There is a difference between rumored teams, and a list of teams given by a player with a NTC. Nash wanted to go to a team that is a contender NOW. The sabres aren't exactly that.

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07-23-2012, 02:50 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Yeap and Nash is no longer a 1st line winger. He is just declining.

Both Dubie and Ani have room to grow. Wouldn't be shocked to see Dubie go back to 50 points next year.
really?

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Old
07-23-2012, 02:51 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Yeap and Nash is no longer a 1st line winger. He is just declining.

Both Dubie and Ani have room to grow. Wouldn't be shocked to see Dubie go back to 50 points next year.
Well then what are we even talking for, you think Nash is not an elite talent, I do.

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07-23-2012, 02:52 PM
  #114
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I think CBJ should actually be pretty happy with this return. They weren't going to get a player who replaces Nash's production ++. But they got 2 young defensively responsible forwards who can play the 2nd line, an elite D prospect -- their D is really shaping with with Murray, Erixon, and JJ -- and probably a late 1st in a very deep and talented draft. If NSH doesn't match the Weber OS, the Atlantic division is getting pretty scary. Pens didn't improve yet this offseason imo, but they still have 2 of the very best centers in the game, and Vokoun to backup Fleury. I'm getting the feeling NYI and NJD are gonna have pretty rough seasons.

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07-23-2012, 02:54 PM
  #115
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Howson screwed up by letting this go publick, then not getting the deal done earlier and letting this fester. He also screwed up in that he didn't insist that one of Stepan or Kreider be a manditory piece of the return from the Rangers.

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07-23-2012, 02:56 PM
  #116
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Jame, on phone and can't find your post I wanted to quote.

But

In light of the Nash trade, what do you think Vanek could return in a trade? I would think more because the field of teams would be wide open since he doesn't have a NTC.

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07-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
and I try not to look into the whole "list" thing cuz so many times players have gone to unlisted teams
When was the last time a player with an NTC who also either requested a trade or was rumored to be traded went to a team not on his list?

Regehr wasn't expected to be traded, he didn't have or give Calgary a list.

Ottawa tried trading Heatley to a team that wasn't (or wouldn't have been) on his list, he nixed it.

Visnovsky is filing a grievance over whether his NTC was in effect because he didn't want to go to the Islanders.

Players with NTCs don't waive to go where they don't want to (i.e., their list). How big or small that list is depends on the player...but the list DOES matter.

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07-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
You need to be put in your place sir. First of all. Turn that 65 point winger Nash into an 80 point winger playing on a good team with those two players on his line.

They lost a d prospect...oh darn Girardi,McDonuagh and Staal say hi.

Take those wingers and decrease their point total playing on a total bust of a team. Please stop saying Nash is only a 65 point player when he played on the epitome of a disgrace.
You can't do that. That's just not how the league works. Remember when everybody said Heatley would score 50-60 goals a year playing with Thornton? His goal production fell sharply.

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07-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Kind of reminds me of Hasek demanding a trade. Its not easy when a player demands a trade. Regier actually had 2 of these and failed miserably on both trades, Peca and Hasek.
The Hasek return was one of the first things that came to mind when I was analyzing this deal. I actually think Howson did better than expected in moving Nash.

Can't be easy when you have a player demanding a trade, dictating the small number of teams he'll agree to be traded to, making a huge salary against the cap, and really not doing anything to live up to the huge salary against the cap.

I'm sorry, I don't care if you have no team around you whatsoever...$7.8 million for one single season over 70 points is an albatross.

Howson was lucky to get what he got.

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07-23-2012, 02:58 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Jame, on phone and can't find your post I wanted to quote.

But

In light of the Nash trade, what do you think Vanek could return in a trade? I would think more because the field of teams would be wide open since he doesn't have a NTC.
I think similar or less (not more) because he's not canadian and has no gold medals the contract situations offset IMO (overpaid vs short term)

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07-23-2012, 02:58 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
You need to be put in your place sir. First of all. Turn that 65 point winger Nash into an 80 point winger playing on a good team with those two players on his line.

They lost a d prospect...oh darn Girardi,McDonuagh and Staal say hi.

Take those wingers and decrease their point total playing on a total bust of a team. Please stop saying Nash is only a 65 point player when he played on the epitome of a disgrace.
Nope, I think Nash stays right around 65 points next year. Did Richards improve his point total? Nope, it declined. Let's look at the last player who was the best guy on a **** team to sign with a better team, Kovalchuk. His point total declined, too. Heatley goes to play with Thornton? Decline. Any boost he gets from going to having better linemates is going to be more than accounted for by playing Torts' system.

Who cares who else the Rangers have on D, they weren't in the trade.

Decrease the point totals of the other guys in the trade? Why? Again, give me a list of every guy whose point total went up when he changed teams and I'll give you just as high profile a list of guys whose totals went down. It's a wash. Nash is a 65 point player and he'll remain so. Dubinsky and Anisimov will now get more ice time and PP time. I don't expect to see them decline at all. The only reason I expect to see their point totals change is when they hit their prime.

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07-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #122
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I think I would find a similar package involving Vanek (or even a better one) quite interesting.

Maybe I am over-hyping Grigs and Girgs prematurely, but continuing to build for the not-too-distant future might be the easiest/fastest path to the Cup.

The Sabres Cup contention team is likely to be made up of the kids and prospects currently in the system, not the old names of the past.

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07-23-2012, 03:06 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Yeah, it doesnt really work like that. The Rangers get a 1st line player for 2 3rd line players, a prospect and a pick.

Sabres fans should know the difference between 1st line players and 3rd line players, big difference.
Columbus' first liners aren't anybody else's first liners.

the 3rd liners on the #1 seed in the east aren't the same as everyone else's third liners.

Compare their point production and TOI for more meaningful comparisons.

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07-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #124
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Meh... I guess it's about as good as Howson was going to get...but I would of liked to see the Rangers have to give up more....

That's really not a whole lot for Nash even tho' i think he's overrated and have no desire for him.

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07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #125
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The worst part about this deal for the Eastern Conference is that the rangers still have around 15 million in cap space after this trade.....

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