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The Football Thread: Now Its Time For the Easiest Part of Any Coach's Job...The Cuts

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:07 AM
  #51
AgentM
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
You can take away those wins on paper but everybody knows those games were played etc. It's not a new punishment but I've never really understood the point of it.

Hopefully this is it for a while. Got bored with the Penn State story a long time ago. Sandusky is basically in jail til he's dead. Paterno already is dead and everybody else has pretty much been fired.
In this case it's a huge punishment because it takes Paterno off of the top of the list for all-time wins by a coach. He lost 111 wins and is now 7th all time. That is a huge deal to Penn State fans for sure.

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07-23-2012, 11:20 AM
  #52
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In this case it's a huge punishment because it takes Paterno off of the top of the list for all-time wins by a coach. He lost 111 wins and is now 7th all time. That is a huge deal to Penn State fans for sure.
I guess. Everybody knows those games and wins still happened though. The NCAA can't really erase the past is my point. People still remember the Fab 5 at Michigan etc.

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07-23-2012, 12:01 PM
  #53
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Don't entirely agree with the punishment.

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07-23-2012, 12:23 PM
  #54
Lamar Latrell
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The sanctions do nothing to remedy the real problem at PSU.

Football became too important and needs to be put in its proper place (ie. shut down for a couple years). These sanctions do nothing to fix that problem, only to hurt people related to the PSU football program who had nothing to do w/ the cover-up. It's merely the NCAA putting on a front on legitimacy and purpose without killing a major program.
Typically pathetic.

Either shut down the program and drastically change the culture or do nothing and lay all the blame on Sandusky, Paterno, Spanier, Curley and Schultz.

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07-23-2012, 12:39 PM
  #55
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07-23-2012, 12:54 PM
  #56
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I never understood the point of vacating wins...yes, on paper it erases them, but those games still happened and it's hard to exactly erase those sorts of things from their memory.

Definitely a harsh penalty laid down by the NCAA...can't say I disagree with it, though. Everything about this whole topic has been so...disappointing.

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07-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I never understood the point of vacating wins...yes, on paper it erases them, but those games still happened and it's hard to exactly erase those sorts of things from their memory.

Definitely a harsh penalty laid down by the NCAA...can't say I disagree with it, though. Everything about this whole topic has been so...disappointing.
I agree with/understand everything except the vacated wins. As you said, the games still happened, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to kind of pretend that they didn't. As bad as Paterno might have been, he was still a good coach in terms of X's and O's, which is what got him all those wins.

It's not like the things that Sandusky did or Paterno helped to cover up helped them on the football field. It's not the same as using ineligible players or paying amateur athletes to go to a certain school.

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07-23-2012, 01:19 PM
  #58
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Welker undergoes hair restoration

Updated Jul 23, 2012 12:24 PM ET

According to a news release, the 31-year-old wide receiver underwent a hair restoration procedure with Dr. Robert Leonard earlier this month. And yes, he’ll be appearing on advertisements for the hair restoration doctor, who has had such clients as radio personality Mikey Adams and former Bruin, Lyndon Byers.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/n...oration-072312

Reportedly Welker lost all of his hair during one football hit:


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07-23-2012, 01:24 PM
  #59
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As for the Penn State situation, it was the right call. I keep hearing whining, here and on local sports radio, about first the potential sanctions and now the actual sanctions, and they get it all wrong. Yeah, everyone is gone now associated with the actions. But the point is to deter future programs from letting things go, especially things this appalling, but basically anything. If only firing everyone involved was the only ramification a school faced it would be hardly make a university pause at all. Even the coach that thumbed their nose at the system and got fired would still have earned millions upon millions before being fired. That does not event take into account the need to show the world that college sports takes this seriously.

They had to do something like this. Why people can not get that is beyond me.

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07-23-2012, 01:26 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by zhenya71 View Post
I agree with/understand everything except the vacated wins. As you said, the games still happened, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to kind of pretend that they didn't. As bad as Paterno might have been, he was still a good coach in terms of X's and O's, which is what got him all those wins.

It's not like the things that Sandusky did or Paterno helped to cover up helped them on the football field. It's not the same as using ineligible players or paying amateur athletes to go to a certain school.
Agreed.

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07-23-2012, 01:33 PM
  #61
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As for the Penn State situation, it was the right call. I keep hearing whining, here and on local sports radio, about first the potential sanctions and now the actual sanctions, and they get it all wrong. Yeah, everyone is gone now associated with the actions. But the point is to deter future programs from letting things go, especially things this appalling, but basically anything. If only firing everyone involved was the only ramification a school faced it would be hardly make a university pause at all. Even the coach that thumbed their nose at the system and got fired would still have earned millions upon millions before being fired. That does not event take into account the need to show the world that college sports takes this seriously.

They had to do something like this. Why people can not get that is beyond me.
Well said. The only thing that sucks about it is punishing the current players with no bowl games but they had to send a message.

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07-23-2012, 01:34 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Lamar Latrell View Post
The sanctions do nothing to remedy the real problem at PSU.

Football became too important and needs to be put in its proper place (ie. shut down for a couple years). These sanctions do nothing to fix that problem, only to hurt people related to the PSU football program who had nothing to do w/ the cover-up. It's merely the NCAA putting on a front on legitimacy and purpose without killing a major program.
Typically pathetic.

Either shut down the program and drastically change the culture or do nothing and lay all the blame on Sandusky, Paterno, Spanier, Curley and Schultz.
Football is too important? You don't say! The NCAA has a LOT of campuses to hit up after State College if that's the precedent you want them to use. Wait, you actually thought PSU was the the only school with this problem? Or that they were the worst? Wow. I'm guessing you don't venture down south very often.

So you don't want football people who weren't involved to be punished, but you want the entire non-football community to be punished because you have personally determined they take football too seriously. You also want them to be punished by the organization that is in the business of making sure people take football seriously. I'd also love for you to indulge me by providing some details on how the NCAA should "change the culture" at PSU. Apparently you're in favor of them determining how the whole town should think and feel as well.

Bravo. That is some powerful stuff, and no that's not a compliment.

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07-23-2012, 01:41 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Well said. The only thing that sucks about it is punishing the current players with no bowl games but they had to send a message.
In their penalties, the NCAA mentions this and addresses it.

They gave an out to all current players and recruits. They can transfer and play at any other school without having to wait as would be usual. So anyone can leave if they want and not deal with this.

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07-23-2012, 01:51 PM
  #64
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absolutely the right call here. Hopefully, Pitt will do the right thing & cancel its scheduled games against Penn State in the coming years...

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07-23-2012, 02:20 PM
  #65
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I think the penalties handed out are fair. Even though I'm not a fan of the guy, I don't think taking away victories away from Paterno makes much sense. Sadly there are people who still stick their head in the sand regarding their "hero". They needed to go hard on PSU and they did.

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07-23-2012, 02:58 PM
  #66
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In their penalties, the NCAA mentions this and addresses it.

They gave an out to all current players and recruits. They can transfer and play at any other school without having to wait as would be usual. So anyone can leave if they want and not deal with this.
That's fair I didn't see that. Thanks for pointing it out.

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07-23-2012, 03:46 PM
  #67
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Unprecedented penalties for what I would consider unprecedented atrocities in the context of sport. In my opinion, they didn't go far enough. If children are getting molested and it is being covered up for a loooooong time for the sake of football... then logically you take that very thing away from them.

I would have liked to see them stripped of their program entirely. At least for a few years.

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07-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #68
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If there are any players on Penn State that are going to transfer than I hope they will consider going to Michigan.

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07-23-2012, 04:03 PM
  #69
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#PennState prez says NCAA originally was set to shut down football four years. Would have been DOUBLE death penalty. That’s jurisdiction.

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07-23-2012, 04:07 PM
  #70
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Hmph.

Should have stuck to their guns.

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07-23-2012, 04:10 PM
  #71
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Well, the program is pretty much shut down. The only kids who are going to play for that school are kids who would have never even been on PSU's radar before. No recruit with more than 1 offer is going to pick PSU now. Pitt recruiters are smiling ear to ear.

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07-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #72
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Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic
#PennState prez says NCAA originally was set to shut down football four years. Would have been DOUBLE death penalty. That’s jurisdiction.
That would have been even more absurd because the NCAA is an organization designed to promote an equal playing field among student athletes, not dole out punishment due to criminal cases involving no one participating in or coaching an NCAA sport. Unfortunately, the NCAA has selectively and severely punished certain members over the years as a deterrent to other schools instead of applying their regulations and punishments fully to every rule violation.

An example is how Auburn gave Cam Newton's father $200,000 two years ago for his son to come to their school, which would amount to a major violation under NCAA rules. However, Auburn was undefeated and going to the National Championship game, so the NCAA decided that Cam Newton somehow didn't know that his father was having schools bid for his son to play there (which is absurd because it is not realistic to think that Newton just went along with whatever school his dad chose without any reason) and thus Auburn went unpunished.

In contrast to this is Penn State who broke no NCAA bylaws, and was given punishments the severity of which has rarely been seen before. People want to tie Penn State football in with Sandusky's crimes, but Sandusky was no longer a coach after the first words of his crimes surfaced. There was certainly an issue that these crimes were not sufficiently reported, but that falls on Schultz and Curley and should not be lumped in with the football program.

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07-23-2012, 04:54 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya71 View Post
I agree with/understand everything except the vacated wins. As you said, the games still happened, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to kind of pretend that they didn't. As bad as Paterno might have been, he was still a good coach in terms of X's and O's, which is what got him all those wins.

It's not like the things that Sandusky did or Paterno helped to cover up helped them on the football field. It's not the same as using ineligible players or paying amateur athletes to go to a certain school.
Chances are Paterno would have been fired for letting Sandusky have free reign if the story had originally come out in 1998. It did give them a competitive edge in keeping Paterno as the coach.

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07-23-2012, 04:58 PM
  #74
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Chances are Paterno would have been fired for letting Sandusky have free reign if the story had originally come out in 1998. It did give them a competitive edge in keeping Paterno as the coach.
The state could not find any evidence of a crime committed by Sandusky in 1998 so there is zero chance Paterno would have been fired then.

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07-23-2012, 05:02 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
The state could not find any evidence of a crime committed by Sandusky in 1998 so there is zero chance Paterno would have been fired then.
Hence "if the story had come out then".

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