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Old
07-19-2012, 04:09 PM
  #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida View Post
Ive only been a hockey fan for about a year so im not sure about the draft. Is it like the NBA where outside the top 10, maybe 15, picks arent expcted to pan out or like the NFL where all first rounders are expected to be key players. I always thoought it was somewhere in between. how valuable are those 4 picks?
You can think of it being closer to the NBA, where the top guys are generally expected to work out and after that it's not quite as certain (go look at the 2003 NHL Entry Draft if you want to see an NFL style one, that was mind boggling).

4 1st round picks are always "valuable", however, the value of Shea Weber greatly outweighs the value of Philadelphia's next 4 1sts. Philly hasn't finished near the bottom of the standings very much in the last 10 years, let alone recently. Adding Weber is only going to increase the chance that those 1sts are late ones, thus decreasing their value.

The bigger issue here is that Weber is one of, if not now, the best defenseman in the NHL and his value to Nashville with the loss of Suter especially is incredibly high. In general, they really can't afford to lose him for anything less than a ransom, and that would mean players that are clearly good now. 4 1sts sounds good in practice, but there's a pretty good chance they lose that swap in the end.

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Old
07-19-2012, 06:16 PM
  #877
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4 reasons the picks really dont matter all that much:
1. Schenn
2. Couturier
3. Read
4. Shea FREAKIN WEBER


Last edited by Knightmare: 07-19-2012 at 06:21 PM.
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Old
07-20-2012, 12:21 AM
  #878
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These ridiculously long, front loaded contracts need to stop. Hopefully they do under the new cba.
Weber is great but really?? This does not set a good precedent for smaller market teams wanting to get good use of their top drafted prospects, after years of care and development.

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07-20-2012, 02:21 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by JP Mick View Post
These ridiculously long, front loaded contracts need to stop. Hopefully they do under the new cba.
Weber is great but really?? This does not set a good precedent for smaller market teams wanting to get good use of their top drafted prospects, after years of care and development.
this is why, while it's going to suck ass...alot...i really don't mind that much if there is a lockout (as long as the owners get the players to accept alot of their terms like last time). i just hope they dont lose the entire season last time, and i don't think they will.

these contracts are just designed to circumvent the cap. teams like ours can never, ever even dream of offering a deal with that type of front-loaded bonuses and/or risk that type of term. big market teams are still using their financial "muscle" despite there being a hard-salary cap and have clear, CLEAR advantages.

the NHL thankfully seems to be all about parity, so i hope they really fight to end these cap-circumventing tactings by maxing the amount of years to 5-6 AND making it so every season has to be equal pay (AKA: no more of this 14 mil for 4 years and then 1 mil the last 4 years bullsh*t)

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07-20-2012, 06:10 AM
  #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
4 reasons the picks really dont matter all that much:
1. Schenn
2. Couturier
3. Read
4. Shea FREAKIN WEBER
You do realize that:

1. Schenn & Couturier have only 2 yrs left on their entry level deal and then they become RFAs.
2. At the same time, Giroux will be a RFA too.
3. And Read at that time will become a UFA as well.
4. And Hartnell is a UFA after next season.
5. Timmonen is most likely retiring after next season
6. Briere will be almost be done or declining when 1, 2, & 3 are happening (with 1 yr left but easy to buyout).
7. They still are stuck with Pronger with a 35+ contract and wont be able to keep him on LTIR for as long as his contract lasts.
8. And most importantly, Philly has next to nothing in its prospect pool right now

Losing 4 first round picks is not nothing and will definitely hurt Philly. They basically have a 2 yr window to win a Cup and then they are going to be in trouble. They are going to have a tough time re-signing all of Giroux, Schenn, Read, and Couturier AT THE SAME TIME! Their defense will be phenomenal but eventually their offense could be pretty bad (hmm, that sounds familiar as a Panthers fan).

I also disagree that the draft is more like NBA...a lot of teams find really good players with picks in the 20s. Guys like John Carlsson were picked at 27 (was actually a pick that would've been Philly's), Flyers drafted Giroux at 22, and guys like Howden, Kuznetov, Coyle, Etem & Nelson were all drafted from 25-30 in 2010. Its not impossible to get gems in the late first round and not uncommon either. The 2013 draft is actually suppose to be pretty good so you may get a really good building block player in the mid 20s.

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Old
07-23-2012, 02:21 PM
  #881
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Surprised no one's posted this one yet ...

Nash, a yet to be named AHLer, and a 3rd to the Rangers for Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon and a 1st. I hope Sather sent a tube of KY as part of the deal to help soothe the burn Howson got.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=401276

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...kets-rick-nash

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07-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
Surprised no one's posted this one yet ...

Nash, a yet to be named AHLer, and a 3rd to the Rangers for Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon and a 1st. I hope Sather sent a tube of KY as part of the deal to help soothe the burn Howson got.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=401276

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...kets-rick-nash
Highway robbery by my second team.

What the hell was Howsen thinking??

Feel bad for BJ fans.

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07-23-2012, 04:25 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Highway robbery by my second team.

What the hell was Howsen thinking??

Feel bad for BJ fans.
wouldn't jump the gun just yet AG. The Rangers have a gluttony of talented players on huge contracts that produce well but not for their dollar value. Add Nash to this list.

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07-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #884
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Rangers continue to make the mistake of adding flash instead of building a team identity.

Blue Jackets lose their franchise player for less than a king's ransom.

Look at it this way though... it's not as if the Blue jackets can get any worse in the short term. They were the worst team in the league WITH Nash. A couple more lotto picks may be what the doctor ordered.

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Old
07-23-2012, 05:33 PM
  #885
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At least he finally got moved, sheesh.

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Old
07-23-2012, 05:33 PM
  #886
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How do you pull the trigger on Nash with NYR without having Callahan, Del Zotto, Staal, or Girardi in the deal only with the 1st. Howson got fleeced.

Jackets are a joke.

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Old
07-23-2012, 05:36 PM
  #887
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I dont think its highway robbery at all. Its a solid deal. No blue chip prospect heading the Jackets' way, but everyone has to know that the Rangers werent going to give up Kreider, the Flyers w
erent going to give up Coutirier, etc. Howson got the best deal he could.

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Old
07-23-2012, 05:39 PM
  #888
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Not a bad trade for the Jackets IMO.

Nash was overrated, and had an overpaid contract.

While the BJ's might of been better off going for less players, but better quality, they were handcuffed by Nash's NTC.

If he only wanted to go to NYC, the other "rumored" deals would mean nothing, and Sather would have the upper hand.

Hopefully, if Tallon is still planning for Luongo to come here, this should help him, if Luongo wants to come here.

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Old
07-23-2012, 05:48 PM
  #889
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I don't think it was an absolutely horrible deal for the Jackets, but they could have done better for sure. Down the line this may benefit them, but for the time being, wow. They might as well secure the first overall pick now. The Rangers should be even more scary good than they were before. I never thought Nash was as good as he was rated, but now playing alongside real talent, he could have career years in New York.

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Old
07-23-2012, 06:02 PM
  #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
I dont think its highway robbery at all. Its a solid deal. No blue chip prospect heading the Jackets' way, but everyone has to know that the Rangers werent going to give up Kreider, the Flyers w
erent going to give up Coutirier, etc. Howson got the best deal he could.
Don't think so either, I think he's overrated and next years draft is deep. It's a good trade, remains to be seen if the Rags are actually better now.

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07-24-2012, 09:34 AM
  #891
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Don't think so either, I think he's overrated and next years draft is deep. It's a good trade, remains to be seen if the Rags are actually better now.
I dont know how you add a 30-40 goal scorer and not be better.Theyre pretty scary with Gaborik richards and Nash, some solid D, and nice youth with DZ Kreider etal. Pls i hear their goalie is not bad.

I hope the trade works for CBJ i dont like any team being fleeced. Dub has great upside, a lst is a lst so time will tell.

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Old
07-24-2012, 09:43 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
I dont know how you add a 30-40 goal scorer and not be better.Theyre pretty scary with Gaborik richards and Nash, some solid D, and nice youth with DZ Kreider etal. Pls i hear their goalie is not bad.

I hope the trade works for CBJ i dont like any team being fleeced. Dub has great upside, a lst is a lst so time will tell.
Rags have tried to buy the Cup for decades now, they keep trying to be the Yankees, it hasn't worked for them. I'm not a Gaborik fan, but was mostly saying that we'll see if the chemistry is there. that seems to be lacking on all these Rag teams. I know they're your second team, I can't stand em, lol, sorry bro.

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07-24-2012, 10:06 AM
  #893
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Rags have tried to buy the Cup for decades now, they keep trying to be the Yankees, it hasn't worked for them. I'm not a Gaborik fan, but was mostly saying that we'll see if the chemistry is there. that seems to be lacking on all these Rag teams. I know they're your second team, I can't stand em, lol, sorry bro.
Yea you are 100% right they sucked for a decade with bad acquisitions, no doubt. This team has more youth. Plus they are only 3 mill higher than we are (oh the irony ). Whether it works or not who knows.

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07-24-2012, 10:27 AM
  #894
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Yea you are 100% right they sucked for a decade with bad acquisitions, no doubt. This team has more youth. Plus they are only 3 mill higher than we are (oh the irony ). Whether it works or not who knows.
There's a lot to watch for and be interested in, and I like that some of their better talent is home grown, just seems they're veering back to things that didn't work. I'm sure the King's window factors into their decisions.

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07-24-2012, 10:28 AM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Rags have tried to buy the Cup for decades now, they keep trying to be the Yankees, it hasn't worked for them. I'm not a Gaborik fan, but was mostly saying that we'll see if the chemistry is there. that seems to be lacking on all these Rag teams. I know they're your second team, I can't stand em, lol, sorry bro.
Thing is, the Rangers were good last season. Not like those past seasons where they struggled, went out and bought all the top free agents, and struggled more. Not sure if their moves are the right ones, but they might have gotten lucky and found the right combination with this move...or they may have taken a big step back...time will tell.

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07-24-2012, 10:45 AM
  #896
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Thing is, the Rangers were good last season. Not like those past seasons where they struggled, went out and bought all the top free agents, and struggled more. Not sure if their moves are the right ones, but they might have gotten lucky and found the right combination with this move...or they may have taken a big step back...time will tell.
I agree, and did well with the home grown players. Dunno, could be a huge piece, could flop. I'll remain skeptical, but will watch with the same interest I watched the Flyers last season.

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07-24-2012, 02:25 PM
  #897
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Nashville matched the offer sheet on Weber.

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07-24-2012, 02:28 PM
  #898
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Good for Nashville. Its a big number, and I would be surprised if he spent his whole career in Nashville, but its still good for them nonetheless.

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07-24-2012, 03:24 PM
  #899
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Nashville matched the offer sheet on Weber.
A bit surprised. Well, they better start spending to the cap annually, cause otherwise this makes no sense. Good for Nashville fans, happy for them.

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07-24-2012, 03:29 PM
  #900
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How do you pull the trigger on Nash with NYR without having Callahan, Del Zotto, Staal, or Girardi in the deal only with the 1st. Howson got fleeced.

Jackets are a joke.
You guys sound just like all the fans of other teams who bashed us in JBo trade, Horton trade, Wideman trade, Frolik trade etc. I've heard so many times how "Florida got fleeced" or "Panthers are a joke".

I actually feel this is a pretty fair and decent trade for the Jackets. We never know what the other offers were for sure, but imo this is pretty fair. Nash is a bit overrated, even though a very good player. Dubinsky and especially Anisimov are good parts for their offense and Erixon has good potential. The 1sti rounder probably will be in the 20-30 range, but is still either a good part for trading or potentially a good prospect.

All in all just glad this trade finally took place so we can all move on from all the Nash discussions.

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