In contrast to this is Penn State who broke no NCAA bylaws,
Yeah, Cam Newton receiving cash for playing at Auburn is much worse than a systematic cover-up of multiple child ***** that spanned decades.
If NCAA won't punish Cam, they shouldn't punish anyone I suppose. I mean Ohio State players got tattoos and sold rings they owned and Reggie Bush got paid for playing at USC and those schools got sanctions that aren't much lighter than Penn State's and their systematic cover-up of multiple child ***** that spanned decades. NCAA is just too mean to little ol' Penn State. They should let them be and play football and Happy Valley can act like nothing ever ever happened.
I understand the PR implications of not imposing sanctions. They had to do it.
I don't like it, but it is what it is. A lot of talk about changing the culture at Penn State. What about the culture at every other major football school?
Yeah, Cam Newton receiving cash for playing at Auburn is much worse than a systematic cover-up of multiple child ***** that spanned decades.
If NCAA won't punish Cam, they shouldn't punish anyone I suppose. I mean Ohio State players got tattoos and sold rings they owned and Reggie Bush got paid for playing at USC and those schools got sanctions that aren't much lighter than Penn State's and their systematic cover-up of multiple child ***** that spanned decades. NCAA is just too mean to little ol' Penn State. They should let them be and play football and Happy Valley can act like nothing ever ever happened.
Penn State got off lightly.
No **** what Penn State did was worse. However, the NCAA does not have jurisdiction over the Sandusky scandal because it in no way involves student athletes.
I understand the PR implications of not imposing sanctions. They had to do it.
I don't like it, but it is what it is. A lot of talk about changing the culture at Penn State. What about the culture at every other major football school?
Name other schools that have had issues with a systematic cover-up of multiple child ***** that spanned decades.
Seriously, a football coach was able to use school facilities to **** children for decades. The head football coach, athletic director, president of the school and others knew. Turning Sandusky in was weighed against how it would affect the football program and school and the powers that be decided that it was more important to protect the image of the college and program and let the ***** continue for years. Just think about that, the people in power continued to allow children to be ***** on school grounds because they thought it might look bad if people found out. The people in charge of Penn State found more importance in their reputation and prestige than in protecting children from being *****.
That is a serious problem in the value system of the leaders of the university.
The NCAA doesn't exist to act as a morality court, it exists to enforce the letter of the law in college athletics.
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“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
Name other schools that have had issues with a systematic cover-up of multiple child ***** that spanned decades.
Seriously, a football coach was able to use school facilities to **** children for decades. The head football coach, athletic director, president of the school and others knew. Turning Sandusky in was weighed against how it would affect the football program and school and the powers that be decided that it was more important to protect the image of the college and program and let the ***** continue for years. Just think about that, the people in power continued to allow children to be ***** on school grounds because they thought it might look bad if people found out. The people in charge of Penn State found more importance in their reputation and prestige than in protecting children from being *****.
That is a serious problem in the value system of the leaders of the university.
Nobody disagrees that PSU leadership acted improperly. They will be tried and judged in criminal court.
The NCAA is not a criminal court. The implications of these sanctions will reach innocent people. They had to do it as evidenced by PSU's willing acceptance of the punishment, but I don't have to like it.
Name other schools that have had issues with a systematic cover-up of multiple child ***** that spanned decades.
Seriously, a football coach was able to use school facilities to **** children for decades. The head football coach, athletic director, president of the school and others knew. Turning Sandusky in was weighed against how it would affect the football program and school and the powers that be decided that it was more important to protect the image of the college and program and let the ***** continue for years. Just think about that, the people in power continued to allow children to be ***** on school grounds because they thought it might look bad if people found out. The people in charge of Penn State found more importance in their reputation and prestige than in protecting children from being *****.
That is a serious problem in the value system of the leaders of the university.
Mickey Rooney: Hi, Milhouse. The studio sent me to talk to you, being a former child star myself, and the number one box office draw from 1939 to 1940.
Bart: Wow, spanning two decades!
Mickey Rooney: Hi, Milhouse. The studio sent me to talk to you, being a former child star myself, and the number one box office draw from 1939 to 1940.
Bart: Wow, spanning two decades!
To be fair, there are accusations against Sandusky going back to the 70s. Nothing proven obvi.
No **** what Penn State did was worse. However, the NCAA does not have jurisdiction over the Sandusky scandal because it in no way involves student athletes.
Football facilities & personnel were utilized in the scandal. The student athletes weren't punished by the sanctions. But a message had to be sent. The NCAA absolutely had jurisdiction over this.
Football facilities & personnel were utilized in the scandal. The student athletes weren't punished by the sanctions. But a message had to be sent. The NCAA absolutely had jurisdiction over this.
Really dude? I took Business Law with Graham Zug, former Penn State wide receiver, and am friends with him on Facebook. This is what he said about the sanctions that vacated all of Penn State's wins since '98:
I have a problem with the PSU thing that I have a problem with the world today, pretty much. I think they overstepped their bounds and hurt people that had nothing to do with this situation. The NCAA isn't the police. What should happen to the people involved is happening. They are being prosecuted in court, and they are going to jail. The sanctions would probably make more sense if JoePa and Co. were still in there, but right now it's like someone prosecuting you for something your father did, and the people doing the prosecuting are mall cops with no real authority on matters that don't pertain to what happens outside of the confines of football.
I personally believe that the football program, whom no one is left from this incident, should have been left alone, and the people involved should have been tried in court. I feel bad for the kids who were starting their college football careers at PSU this season. My brother went to PSU, and I know how in love kids fall with it. I know a few of them are decommitting right now, and that has to be a hard thing to do, especially when you think you found the right school and situation for yourself.
I'll be very curious to see what happens with top notch players on PSU. If Silas Read transfers, I think the whole gang transfers. If he stays, I think there's a decent shot that everyone stays. I mean, the guys on the team are all locked in with scholarships, so they could stay, and nothing could happen for at least a year or two in terms of quality of football.
The NCAA doesn't exist to act as a morality court, it exists to enforce the letter of the law in college athletics.
Exactly. They were pretty out of line with that ruling. None of the guilty parties were even remotely effected by that ruling (except JoePa but hes dead). Seemed like the NCAA just jumped on the pile without even doing anything themselves. NCAA has always been and always will be a complete joke
I understand the PR implications of not imposing sanctions. They had to do it.
I don't like it, but it is what it is. A lot of talk about changing the culture at Penn State. What about the culture at every other major football school?
Doesn't this set the bar for all schools? I'm sure all other schools are looking at this and setting parameters based off of this.
Sorry if wanting my Alma mater to do the right thing offends your sensibilities....
No I'm just mind blown over the fact that you think playing a football game has anything to do with "doing the right thing." Seriously, talk about being dramatic.
"I don't want my team to play PSU because it would mean that......" what exactly? You hate PSU and you want to say bad things about them just say that. It's okay, you're in large company. Doesn't mean they didn't do anything wrong, but let's get to the heart of why so many that have no association whatsoever feel the need to throw their weight around on this topic.
Doesn't this set the bar for all schools? I'm sure all other schools are looking at this and setting parameters based off of this.
No offense but that is incredibly naive. It will never stop. I guess I agree on the level that no one will be dumb enough to try and skirt issues that could have grave consequences to the program (murder, ****, extreme violence, etc.), but if you think literally everything underneath that won't continue a reality check is necessary.
EDIT: So this entire conversation is about **** but word **** is censored on this site. Mmkay. Kinda like discussing pornography but muting the TV and putting a blanket over the screen because there happens to be a porn movie on.
EDIT 2: Oh for god's sake screw it.
Last edited by UnderratedBrooks44: 07-24-2012 at 09:28 AM.
I'm guessing Ugene Malkin felt nothing but contempt for the people of Haiti when they fell on hard times, and New Orleans for that matter. I mean they were the ones that decided to live there so they're forced to deal with the consequences right? Not Ugene Malkin's problem.
And that my friends is a shining example of the complete stupidity of about 80% of people that try to comment on Penn State.
I'm guessing Ugene Malkin felt nothing but contempt for the people of Haiti when they fell on hard times, and New Orleans for that matter. I mean they were the ones that decided to live there so they're forced to deal with the consequences right? Not Ugene Malkin's problem.
And that my friends is a shining example of the complete stupidity of about 80% of people that try to comment on Penn State.
Comparing people that suffered through a natural disaster in a developing country or New Orleans where homes were destroyed, people starved to death, etc to people who live in a football mad town whose business would suffer without football is ludicrous. Give me a break dude.
That said, I would feel for many innocent people that would suffer as a result of this horrific set of circumstances.
As for the Penn State situation, it was the right call. I keep hearing whining, here and on local sports radio, about first the potential sanctions and now the actual sanctions, and they get it all wrong. ... If only firing everyone involved was the only ramification a school faced it would be hardly make a university pause at all. ... That does not event take into account the need to show the world that college sports takes this seriously.
They had to do something like this. Why people can not get that is beyond me.
Essentially correct. If the NCAA had handed out a less severe punishment that would've basically been undermining their own legitimacy IMO. It would be like other teams saying "Well let's see what we can get away with. Worst thing that happens is we get allegations, then they have to prove them, and even if they do the punishment won't be too bad. PSU allowed a few dozen kids to be ***** by one of their former coaches, in their facilities, with knowledge by the coach, administrators and others, and look what they got."
IMO they would've been completely justified suspending the program entirely for a couple years to start things off, then do all the other stuff too. PSU fans should be grateful they still have a program IMO. If I were the NCAA guy I would've shut the thing down for several years at least. THAT will put the fear into these ridiculous "football as religion" people all over this country. It's completely out of control and from coast to coast, not just at PSU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine
Well said. The only thing that sucks about it is punishing the current players with no bowl games but they had to send a message.
NCAA will allow special transfers for all players who want to leave. Basically it's going to be an expansion draft for the rest of the schools in your region or the BigTen. As I understand it, anyway. So no one will be stuck there if they feel it will hurt their career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever
People want to tie Penn State football in with Sandusky's crimes, but Sandusky was no longer a coach after the first words of his crimes surfaced. There was certainly an issue that these crimes were not sufficiently reported, but that falls on Schultz and Curley and should not be lumped in with the football program.
This is the worst sort of rationalization. I'm guessing you're a huge fan, right? Hard core? This is the kind of stuff the NCAA has to contend with and it's not good. Sandusky was still a major presence in the PSU football program, was in regular contact with the coaches, directors and others there, regularly used your facilities, etc. PSU was an activate enabler of this POS at every stage of the process, and consequently are equally as guilty. To act like PSU is somehow less guilty (especially throughout the football and athletic programs), because Sandusky was no longer receiving a salary as a coach, is absurd.
All of the Paterno hero-worshippers in that town (and other fans who worship their coaches and programs) need to get their head out of their ass if they haven't already. Joe Paterno screwed up BIGTIME. That has been demonstrated clearly by the the Freh report, given the very large scope of their interviews, documentation reviews, etc. No one with any credibility is questioning the veracity or depth of that report, except the Paterno family and maybe some former meathead players, unable to extricate themselves from their pride. Sometimes the truth hurts too much. Paterno was actively involved in the cover-up. Period. The hero of the grand experiment or whatever you want to call it, where he talked a big game on ethics and schoolwork and all the rest, chose the route of a coward instead of a hero when faced with his biggest and MOST IMPORTANT test as a leader at PSU.
All this BS analysis we've heard boils down to one simple thing: wherever you are, whatever you do for a living (powerful or not), whoever you are surrounded by... when you find out that one of your peers is ****** kids or might be ****** kids, or is ****** or assaulting anyone for that matter, YOU GO TO THE ****ING POLICE with your evidence. This can't be hammered home enough in this country of rationalizations and feel-good crapola we live in today.
There is no "I'm not sure what our policy was on that", and "maybe I should use the chain of command", or "I have to think about the effects on all the good people in the program". Unless you're in the military, you call the police, you report a serious felony with evidence or corroborating witness statements, and you have the ****er arrested right THEN AND THERE. There is no other logical course of action (unless you consider confronting the rapist and beating the crap out of him a logical course - I could accept that in the case of the coach who witnessed stuff in the showers... but ultimately he was a coward as well).
