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2012-13 is a transition year. Bergevin is focusing on 2013-14.

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07-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I totally agree with end of your post, Moen is a useful veteran. I'm glad to have him in the lineup next season instead of a rookie. But what are the odds that 32 year old Moen will be the same player? If Bergevin was buiding towards 2014-15, wouldn't the smart play be to patch that spot over a shorter term, and find a 28 year old version in a couple of years? There are still plenty of veteran forwards available who will be signing shorter deals.
I don't think he'll be as good as he is now but I think he'll still be serviceable. 32 is not over the hill. We're getting Moen's best years.

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07-22-2012, 12:04 PM
  #152
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Everybody be happy when the Habs draft the next french star in Jonathon Drouin.
There are so many interesting French Canadian prospects in next year draft. I could see the Habs drafting 2 or 3 of them (according to this guy's list) :

9- Zachary Fucale (G), 6', 166lbs
12- Jonathan Drouin (LW), 5'11", 176lbs
15- William Carrier (C), 6', 204lbs
21- Anthony Duclair (LW), 5'11", 159lbs
31- Anthony Mantha (LW), 6'3", 178lbs
43- Jeremy Gregoire (LW), 6', 191lbs
53- Nikolas Brouillard (D), 5'10", 147lbs
56- Dominic Graham (G), 6', 153lbs
58- Émile Poirier (LW), 6'1", 175lbs
62- Alexandre Belanger (G), 6', 171lbs
67- Philippe Cadorette (G), 5'10", 167lbs
72- Philippe Desrosiers (G), 6', 177lbs
75- Samuel Morin (D), 6'5", 184lbs
76- Yan-Pavel Laplante (C), 6', 172lbs

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07-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #153
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I'd be happier with MacKinnon.
So do I.

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07-22-2012, 01:38 PM
  #154
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I'd be happier with MacKinnon.
Well, I'd be happier with Bar Raphaeli. But we all know it's just not going to happen. Let's aim for a more plausible drafting rank.

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07-23-2012, 11:10 AM
  #155
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Well, I'd be happier with Bar Raphaeli. But we all know it's just not going to happen. Let's aim for a more plausible drafting rank.
Seth Jones then.

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07-23-2012, 11:15 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
There are so many interesting French Canadian prospects in next year draft. I could see the Habs drafting 2 or 3 of them (according to this guy's list) :

9- Zachary Fucale (G), 6', 166lbs
12- Jonathan Drouin (LW), 5'11", 176lbs
15- William Carrier (C), 6', 204lbs
21- Anthony Duclair (LW), 5'11", 159lbs
31- Anthony Mantha (LW), 6'3", 178lbs
43- Jeremy Gregoire (LW), 6', 191lbs
53- Nikolas Brouillard (D), 5'10", 147lbs
56- Dominic Graham (G), 6', 153lbs
58- Émile Poirier (LW), 6'1", 175lbs
62- Alexandre Belanger (G), 6', 171lbs
67- Philippe Cadorette (G), 5'10", 167lbs
72- Philippe Desrosiers (G), 6', 177lbs
75- Samuel Morin (D), 6'5", 184lbs
76- Yan-Pavel Laplante (C), 6', 172lbs
They're not exactly behemoths, are they?

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07-23-2012, 11:19 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Well, I'd be happier with Bar Raphaeli. But we all know it's just not going to happen. Let's aim for a more plausible drafting rank.
If we don't sign Semin and there's no lockout then the Habs are extremely likely to draft top-5.

They're a worse team than last year having lost AK46, Gill, Cammalleri and replaced them with Bourque, Prust, and Bouillon.

Meanwhile:

- Edmonton has picked up Nail Yakupov, likely to score 45-50 points in his rookie season.
- Columbus improved after the Jack Johnson trade, and has picked up Ryan Murray.
- Islanders are a young team. May stay the same or improve lightly.
- Toronto traded Schenn for van Riemsdyk, they should improve slightly or stay the same.
- Anaheim I expect to stay the same.
- Minnesota has picked up Suter and Parise. They should improve drastically.
- Carolina improved throughout the season and picked up Jordan Staal. They should improve drastically.
- Winipeg and TB should stay about the same.

So out of the 9 other teams that rounded out the bottom-10, Carolina, Minnesota, Columbus and Edmonton are expected to do much better.

Nathan McKinnon is thus an extremely plausible future habs prospect. The sooner you lose the denial about the 2013 Habs Stanley Cup Run the sooner you can look forward to the draft. Admittedly, a lockout would bump the Habs out of the running and likely send McKinnon to Edmonton where he can center Yakupov and Hall. That is why as Habs fans we should oppose the lockout. We don't want McKinnon centering Yakupov and Hall. We want him centering Pacioretty and Eller/Galchenyuk.


Last edited by DAChampion: 07-23-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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07-23-2012, 11:19 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
They're not exactly behemoths, are they?
All but two are in the average size of the Nhl(or taller)

Don't forget those kids are 16/17

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07-23-2012, 11:35 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If we don't sign Semin and there's no lockout then the Habs are extremely likely to draft top-5.

They're a worse team than last year having lost AK46, Gill, Cammalleri and replaced them with Bourque, Prust, and Bouillon.

Meanwhile:

- Edmonton has picked up Nail Yakupov, likely to score 45-50 points in his rookie season.
- Columbus improved after the Jack Johnson trade, and has picked up Ryan Murray.
- Islanders are a young team. May stay the same or improve lightly.
- Toronto traded Schenn for van Riemsdyk, they should improve slightly or stay the same.
- Anaheim I expect to stay the same.
- Minnesota has picked up Suter and Parise. They should improve drastically.
- Carolina improved throughout the season and picked up Jordan Staal. They should improve drastically.
- Winipeg and TB should stay about the same.

So out of the 9 other teams that rounded out the bottom-10, Carolina, Minnesota, Columbus and Edmonton are expected to do much better.

Nathan McKinnon is thus an extremely plausible future habs prospect. The sooner you lose the denial about the 2013 Habs Stanley Cup Run the sooner you can look forward to the draft. Admittedly, a lockout would bump the Habs out of the running and likely send McKinnon to Edmonton where he can center Yakupov and Hall. That is why as Habs fans we should oppose the lockout. We don't want McKinnon centering Yakupov and Hall. We want him centering Pacioretty and Eller/Galchenyuk.
I agree with what you are saying here. With this lineup we will struggle to score goals. I would like to see Bergevin deal Pleks and Markov to obtain some highend young talent and draft picks in 2013. This type of deal would solidify our bottom 3 standing and strengthen the future for the Habs. 2013 may be ugly but what if there is a lockout anyways? 2014 we come back strong, maybe with a generational talent in our back pocket.

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07-23-2012, 11:48 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
I agree with what you are saying here. With this lineup we will struggle to score goals. I would like to see Bergevin deal Pleks and Markov to obtain some highend young talent and draft picks in 2013. This type of deal would solidify our bottom 3 standing and strengthen the future for the Habs. 2013 may be ugly but what if there is a lockout anyways? 2014 we come back strong, maybe with a generational talent in our back pocket.
It seems to me you're being hyperoptimistic.

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07-23-2012, 12:14 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If we don't sign Semin and there's no lockout then the Habs are extremely likely to draft top-5.

They're a worse team than last year having lost AK46, Gill, Cammalleri and replaced them with Bourque, Prust, and Bouillon.

Meanwhile:

- Edmonton has picked up Nail Yakupov, likely to score 45-50 points in his rookie season.
- Columbus improved after the Jack Johnson trade, and has picked up Ryan Murray.
- Islanders are a young team. May stay the same or improve lightly.
- Toronto traded Schenn for van Riemsdyk, they should improve slightly or stay the same.
- Anaheim I expect to stay the same.
- Minnesota has picked up Suter and Parise. They should improve drastically.
- Carolina improved throughout the season and picked up Jordan Staal. They should improve drastically.
- Winipeg and TB should stay about the same.

So out of the 9 other teams that rounded out the bottom-10, Carolina, Minnesota, Columbus and Edmonton are expected to do much better.

Nathan McKinnon is thus an extremely plausible future habs prospect. The sooner you lose the denial about the 2013 Habs Stanley Cup Run the sooner you can look forward to the draft. Admittedly, a lockout would bump the Habs out of the running and likely send McKinnon to Edmonton where he can center Yakupov and Hall. That is why as Habs fans we should oppose the lockout. We don't want McKinnon centering Yakupov and Hall. We want him centering Pacioretty and Eller/Galchenyuk.
Bourque will have a better season.
Plek will have a better season.
Markov will have a better season.
Subban will have a better season.
Eller will have a better season.
Gionta will have a better season.
Emelin will have a better season.
Kaberle will have a better season.
Max, DD and Cole will keep on giving.

Top-5 finish.

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07-23-2012, 12:16 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If we don't sign Semin and there's no lockout then the Habs are extremely likely to draft top-5.

They're a worse team than last year having lost AK46, Gill, Cammalleri and replaced them with Bourque, Prust, and Bouillon.

Meanwhile:

- Edmonton has picked up Nail Yakupov, likely to score 45-50 points in his rookie season.
- Columbus improved after the Jack Johnson trade, and has picked up Ryan Murray.
- Islanders are a young team. May stay the same or improve lightly.
- Toronto traded Schenn for van Riemsdyk, they should improve slightly or stay the same.
- Anaheim I expect to stay the same.
- Minnesota has picked up Suter and Parise. They should improve drastically.
- Carolina improved throughout the season and picked up Jordan Staal. They should improve drastically.
- Winipeg and TB should stay about the same.

So out of the 9 other teams that rounded out the bottom-10, Carolina, Minnesota, Columbus and Edmonton are expected to do much better.

Nathan McKinnon is thus an extremely plausible future habs prospect. The sooner you lose the denial about the 2013 Habs Stanley Cup Run the sooner you can look forward to the draft. Admittedly, a lockout would bump the Habs out of the running and likely send McKinnon to Edmonton where he can center Yakupov and Hall. That is why as Habs fans we should oppose the lockout. We don't want McKinnon centering Yakupov and Hall. We want him centering Pacioretty and Eller/Galchenyuk.
What if you were to factor in the following hypotheticals?

- The return of a healthy/up-to-speed Markov and Gionta
- A more cohesive defensive unit (an actual D coach and 1-year later for Emelin and Diaz)
- A PP that is not horrible
- A Subban back to offensive form

Also, if you're predicting any kind of improvement from the bottom teams shouldn't you factor in any potential drops from the other 19 (notably Nashville, New Jersey, Phoenix and Columbus if they lose Nash)?

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07-23-2012, 12:28 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
What if you were to factor in the following hypotheticals?

- The return of a healthy/up-to-speed Markov and Gionta
- A more cohesive defensive unit (an actual D coach and 1-year later for Emelin and Diaz)
- A PP that is not horrible
- A Subban back to offensive form
I prefer to focus on more likely outcomes.

Yes, Markov and Gionta will come back. But at any given time you should expect between 1 and 3 of your top-10 players to be injured. That's what history teaches us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
Also, if you're predicting any kind of improvement from the bottom teams shouldn't you factor in any potential drops from the other 19 (notably Nashville, New Jersey, Phoenix and Columbus if they lose Nash)?
That's very hard to do. If someone has the broad hockey knowledge to ascertain which top-20 teams could fall in the bottom-5 then I would very much like to read their analysis.

I could see Ottawa and Calgary falling into the bottom-5. I look forward to Calgary's 2nd rounder next year.

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07-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
What if you were to factor in the following hypotheticals?

- The return of a healthy/up-to-speed Markov and Gionta
- A more cohesive defensive unit (an actual D coach and 1-year later for Emelin and Diaz)
- A PP that is not horrible
- A Subban back to offensive form

Also, if you're predicting any kind of improvement from the bottom teams shouldn't you factor in any potential drops from the other 19 (notably Nashville, New Jersey, Phoenix and Columbus if they lose Nash)?
And let's hypothetically say that instead of Gionta/Markov going down for extensive amounts of time it is instead Pacioretty/Subban or Cole/Gorges. It's the same end result. The club won't have the depth required at either position to adequately replace those injured top-tier players and will end up suffering greatly unless Price manages to stand on his head. That's not even alluding to a potential injury to Price.

Your a Habs fan. You should come to expect that one or multiple of our important players are going to be injured for an extensive amount of time. It might be the same players as last year or it could be entirely new ones.

The club last season in my opinion wasn't a "Bottom 3" club on paper, but then we did release the likes of Cammalleri, Kostitsyn and Spacek and we brought in Bourque and Kaberle. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we somehow challenged for the playoffs, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised at all if we finished in the bottom of the barrel again.

Who says the PP won't be terrible? Who says PK is going to be better offensively? Who's to say Pacioretty/DD/Cole all had career years and fall down with more responsible coverage next season? It's all speculation. Neither side is right until proven otherwise.

However, there is nothing to suggest the Habs will make the playoffs next season based on last season or the minor moves made thus far in the off-season (even though I do like those moves greatly, they are purely minor changes). We will see this reflection very clear when all the media makes their pre-season predictions on what the finals standings will be. We might see a few odd-balls slap Montreal in 8th but the vast majority will have us slotted in the 11th-15th area.

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07-23-2012, 01:41 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I prefer to focus on more likely outcomes.

Yes, Markov and Gionta will come back. But at any given time you should expect between 1 and 3 of your top-10 players to be injured. That's what history teaches us.


That's very hard to do. If someone has the broad hockey knowledge to ascertain which top-20 teams could fall in the bottom-5 then I would very much like to read their analysis.

I could see Ottawa and Calgary falling into the bottom-5. I look forward to Calgary's 2nd rounder next year.
You're bulding a house of cards to support your conjecture. Ottawa is unlikely to plummet. As for Carolina, they didn't get Staal at no cost and he isn't going to bring them 10 points singlehandedly. Most of all--and this is a crritical point--history teaches us nothing about anticipated injuries. Other bottom (as well as top) half teams from last season are just as susceptible. Perhaps the main reason the Habs led the East a few seasons ago was their relative freedom from injuries.

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07-23-2012, 01:57 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
You're bulding a house of cards to support your conjecture. Ottawa is unlikely to plummet. As for Carolina, they didn't get Staal at no cost and he isn't going to bring them 10 points singlehandedly. Most of all--and this is a crritical point--history teaches us nothing about anticipated injuries. Other bottom (as well as top) half teams from last season are just as susceptible. Perhaps the main reason the Habs led the East a few seasons ago was their relative freedom from injuries.
Actually history is very clear. The average is that a few of our 10 best players are injured at any given time.

If you expect 2 major injuries, then 1 year in 9 you will have no major injuries, simple statistics 101.

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07-23-2012, 05:48 PM
  #167
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Back to the topic of E.Kane...

Would something like Bourque, Holland, Beaulieu, and a 2nd 2012 work..

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Kane - Plekanec - Gionta
Prust - Eller - Armstrong
Moen - Nokalainen - White

Let's give Plekanec a quality winger instead of 4th liners..

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07-23-2012, 06:21 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Bourque will have a better season.
Plek will have a better season.
Markov will have a better season.
Subban will have a better season.
Eller will have a better season.
Gionta will have a better season.
Emelin will have a better season.
Kaberle will have a better season.
Max, DD and Cole will keep on giving.

Top-5 finish.
Even if they all have carrer years, it's all about Price.

Quick barly got his team into the playoffs with 10 SO.

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07-23-2012, 08:47 PM
  #169
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Hey Habs fans, just stopping by to see what Desjardins future is with this team?

Does he have potential to possibly backup Price this upcoming year?

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07-23-2012, 08:50 PM
  #170
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Hey Habs fans, just stopping by to see what Desjardins future is with this team?

Does he have potential to possibly backup Price this upcoming year?
His future in that regards is closely tied to Budaj.

As in

If Budaj gets hurt or gets somehow traded for waived, then Desjardins will be Price's backup.

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07-23-2012, 08:54 PM
  #171
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His future in that regards is closely tied to Budaj.

As in

If Budaj gets hurt or gets somehow traded for waived, then Desjardins will be Price's backup.
Ok thanks.

He had a good year in the AHL last year, I think he could be a solid backup for Price in the future to say the least.

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07-23-2012, 08:59 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If we don't sign Semin and there's no lockout then the Habs are extremely likely to draft top-5.

They're a worse team than last year having lost AK46, Gill, Cammalleri and replaced them with Bourque, Prust, and Bouillon.

Meanwhile:

- Edmonton has picked up Nail Yakupov, likely to score 45-50 points in his rookie season.
- Columbus improved after the Jack Johnson trade, and has picked up Ryan Murray.
- Islanders are a young team. May stay the same or improve lightly.
- Toronto traded Schenn for van Riemsdyk, they should improve slightly or stay the same.
- Anaheim I expect to stay the same.
- Minnesota has picked up Suter and Parise. They should improve drastically.
- Carolina improved throughout the season and picked up Jordan Staal. They should improve drastically.
- Winipeg and TB should stay about the same.

So out of the 9 other teams that rounded out the bottom-10, Carolina, Minnesota, Columbus and Edmonton are expected to do much better.

Nathan McKinnon is thus an extremely plausible future habs prospect. The sooner you lose the denial about the 2013 Habs Stanley Cup Run the sooner you can look forward to the draft. Admittedly, a lockout would bump the Habs out of the running and likely send McKinnon to Edmonton where he can center Yakupov and Hall. That is why as Habs fans we should oppose the lockout. We don't want McKinnon centering Yakupov and Hall. We want him centering Pacioretty and Eller/Galchenyuk.
The habs are a better team than at the beginning of last year because of the dev of our young talent this isn't NHL 12

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07-23-2012, 09:40 PM
  #173
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The habs are a better team than at the beginning of last year because of the dev of our young talent this isn't NHL 12
yup...

frankly, when I look at our current roster, as is, I see a group that, much like in 2008, has the right elements to be a big surprise IF they stay lucky on the injury front.

basically another year where we are likely to finish in the 6-10 group, but if things go well, a top-4 seed is plausible, just as if things go miserably, another lottery pick will be in the cards.

we don't have the depth or elite talent up front to be a playoff "lock", but we have a lot of good pieces in place.

while many are skeptical, i think that Therrien will get them moving in the right direction, and punching slightly above their weight class.


and all of this is with the roster as it stands today... if MB has a move (or two) up his sleeve to address the top-6 or top-4 holes, the outlook gets that much better.

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07-24-2012, 05:33 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I prefer to focus on more likely outcomes.

Yes, Markov and Gionta will come back. But at any given time you should expect between 1 and 3 of your top-10 players to be injured. That's what history teaches us.


That's very hard to do. If someone has the broad hockey knowledge to ascertain which top-20 teams could fall in the bottom-5 then I would very much like to read their analysis.

I could see Ottawa and Calgary falling into the bottom-5. I look forward to Calgary's 2nd rounder next year.
I see, telling wich team will improve is easy, but finding the ones who are likely to go down is tough ?

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07-24-2012, 07:23 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Confound View Post
Hey Habs fans, just stopping by to see what Desjardins future is with this team?

Does he have potential to possibly backup Price this upcoming year?
I'd say he has a good chance to be our backup in 2013-2014 after Budaj's contract is done.

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