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Do the Habs need defense depth?

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Old
07-22-2012, 11:21 AM
  #151
Gabe84
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I personally don't think Barker is that awful. He's just not a guy you can ask to anchor a pairing defensively, nor deliver a lot of offense (especially on offensively starved teams like Minnesota or even Edmonton, who didn't even out-score us last year). I wouldn't be surprised if someone eventually got good use out of him by pairing him with a really solid offensive AND defensive contributor with a RH shot (on a 2nd or 3rd pairing, of course). But I'm not suggesting to go after the guy, either.
I wonder how many of those are out there...

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07-22-2012, 11:32 AM
  #152
Roulin
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Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
One of Diaz, Weber or Kaberle has to go. We have to acquire a bigger defence like Michal Rozsival.
I'm still not sure quite what Diaz is. Despite his age, I think there may be some room for improvement. He looked really good in spurts last season. If his main problem was physical stamina, that seems like the kind of problem that be fixed, at least partially. I think there's more to his game in his own end than his 5'11 suggests.

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07-22-2012, 12:06 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I'm still not sure quite what Diaz is. Despite his age, I think there may be some room for improvement. He looked really good in spurts last season. If his main problem was physical stamina, that seems like the kind of problem that be fixed, at least partially. I think there's more to his game in his own end than his 5'11 suggests.
I feel the same way. I know he's older than Weber but I see more upside in him. At his best he was really a very good #5-6 pmd, smart and skilled with decent defensive instincts to go with his above-average offensive tools.

The habs problem, as many have pointed out (including the post you were responding too) is that no team can carry Kaberle, Weber and Diaz and succeed. Add Markov into that mix and you simply have too many undersized or un-physical pmd and not enough size and grit in the mix. To me, after Markov, Diaz is the best of the other three to keep. Kaberle's work ethic is a blot on the team and Weber has just failed to find a reliable game in the NHL.

God am I glad to be rid of a management squad that went out and acquired guys like Gomez, Kaberle and Borque, the last two while the team was heading into the toilet anyway. Those guys are problems a losing team needs to get rid of to rebuild successfully, not go out and acquire. Ugh.

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07-22-2012, 12:33 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
I feel the same way. I know he's older than Weber but I see more upside in him. At his best he was really a very good #5-6 pmd, smart and skilled with decent defensive instincts to go with his above-average offensive tools.

The habs problem, as many have pointed out (including the post you were responding too) is that no team can carry Kaberle, Weber and Diaz and succeed. Add Markov into that mix and you simply have too many undersized or un-physical pmd and not enough size and grit in the mix. To me, after Markov, Diaz is the best of the other three to keep. Kaberle's work ethic is a blot on the team and Weber has just failed to find a reliable game in the NHL.

God am I glad to be rid of a management squad that went out and acquired guys like Gomez, Kaberle and Borque, the last two while the team was heading into the toilet anyway. Those guys are problems a losing team needs to get rid of to rebuild successfully, not go out and acquire. Ugh.
I'm with you on this one. Diaz is naturally going to get a bit stronger and smarter defensively, and shows more hints of improving in ways that could easily make him a more valuable NHL defensive piece than Weber, imo.

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07-22-2012, 01:30 PM
  #155
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We've seen plenty of dman find their game later in their career. Diaz can certainly improve. You can't judge him based solely on his age; you also have to take into consideration that the biggest challenge for him is to adapt to the pace, rules, and culture of the NHL. That will be the defining factor for Diaz. We have this very "EA Sport" vision of potential in a player: that they will get better until they reach 22, 23 years old, then it's their prime. It's not how it really works. For most guys, it's true because they take a traditional road to the NHL.

Diaz is in a different boat. I think he has the tools. But he plays/needs to play a cerebral game to be effective: poke checks, positioning, takeaways, etc. He'll never have the physique to play like Pronger. And the kind of game he plays takes a bit more time to develop I think. He needs to be out on the ice and analyze what's going on. Understand how plays develop in the NHL. Know where to be and what to do. If he gets the ice time next season, I'm sure he'll impress us.

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07-22-2012, 02:11 PM
  #156
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Our D sucks ***!!! the way i see it, the rinks aren't gonna get any bigger so might as well get guys who take up more space on the ice....guys like Weber, diaz, kaberle, need to get outta here! they can't clear the from of the net, they can't hit, opposing forwards must love playing against our D! Sign Barker, Kubina, rozsival to 2 yr deals...., get rid of diaz, weber and Kaberle for anything.....i'd even trade Markov for a 1st+ a bit.... Let our Hamilton D develop and take it from there

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07-22-2012, 05:57 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by lesHabitants514 View Post

Our D sucks ***!!! the way i see it, the rinks aren't gonna get any bigger so might as well get guys who take up more space on the ice....guys like Weber, diaz, kaberle, need to get outta here! they can't clear the from of the net, they can't hit, opposing forwards must love playing against our D! Sign Barker, Kubina, rozsival to 2 yr deals...., get rid of diaz, weber and Kaberle for anything.....i'd even trade Markov for a 1st+ a bit.... Let our Hamilton D develop and take it from there
I agree with you...
The only positive is that our D-corps can get us another top 5 overall pick!! (but I can't stand missing the playoffs!).
Maybe Bergevin will be patient and wait a bit for Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis...and then it will be Thrower, Bennett.


Diaz: we've all seen potential in him, but still...if you're going to have a Diaz in your lineup, at least get some big, physical dmen to be partnered with a dman like Diaz.

Weber: not even sure if he can play defense? he had so many chances last season and failed miserably every time.

Kaberle: softest d-man in nhl...we have one more year left with him with a lockout.

Markov: he's collecting his last two years at $5.75mil per year (no matter how many games he plays and no matter how well he plays!)...and we're stuck with him since he has a no trade clause (smart *****), but with a lockout he only has one more year at $5.75mil. I really hope that's it (paying him 5.75mil/year). I hope Bergevin only gives him 3mil/year after that or lets him and his damaged goods body walk away. Time for a new era to start...Subban, Gorges, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Thrower...

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Old
07-22-2012, 05:59 PM
  #158
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Honestly I am very worried about the Habs D. You would put Subban, Georges, Markov and Emelin as our top 4. Markov has been injury prone during the past 3 seasons and in his last 20 games has only put up 6 points. Emelin was a -18 last year, although he did play very well during the WC. My main sticking point with our defense is it's lack of size

Bouillon 5'8"
Diaz 5'11"
Webber 5'11"
Kaberle is a very soft 6'1"

At least the prospect pool has some size

Beaulieu 6'1"
Tinordi 6'6"
Dietz 6'1"
Ellis 6'1"
Didier 6'2"
Nash 6'3"
Thrower a very tough 6'0"


Last edited by feds91: 07-22-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old
07-22-2012, 08:05 PM
  #159
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We have to give the chance to Markov to come back. No other player could help us more than a healthy Markov would. Support him and hope for the best.

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07-22-2012, 09:21 PM
  #160
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Mark Stuart please.

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Old
07-22-2012, 09:33 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Tiger Svoboda View Post
I miss Roman Hamrlik

You miss the old Roman Hamrlik, not the old, old Roman Hamrlik. It's like realizing that the movie star you had a crush on is 60 years old and has undergone three face lifts.

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Old
07-23-2012, 09:20 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Wrong way around. It's not the bottom 4 that's the problem, it's the top 4.

Marky: Mr. Glass, 20 games in 2 years.
Subby: Really good but 3rd year, still learning.
Gorges: Love the guy, all good except 2 goals a year don't help much in the top 4.
Emelin: 2nd year NHL, roll of the dice in the top 4.

Very risky top 4. Not good at all. We'll get killed this year if that's the plan.
Yep.

Compare that with the Rangers McDonagh, Girardi, Staal & Del Zotto. No comparison at all to me.

With a dman as GM he has to see the weaknesses of the group as a whole.

I'm expecting to see alot of changes to this group in the next few years.

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