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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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Old
07-23-2012, 05:54 PM
  #351
DAChampion
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The Kings are a superior team, but you take away Kopitar ...
The Kings are less of a team without their best player than they are with their best player.

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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Where the Rags "not a real 8th place team" when they were, even more than the Habs, a perennial 6th-10th place team that would get knocked out by anyone in the first round? Because they went from 8th to 1st place in the East without tanking in between.
By all means, if we can trade Gomez for McDonagh then we should go for it. How about Rene Bourque for Doug Hamilton?

I support the Rangers model.

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07-23-2012, 06:07 PM
  #352
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And Richards was skating around with a cup over head in June while Pleks was watching tv in Kladno. The personal biased opinion of a fan doesn't make it universal true.
You're saying like if he was the reason LA won the cup .. Without Brown, Quick and Kopitar, or without one of them, Richards would've been playing golf at that time .

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07-23-2012, 06:12 PM
  #353
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And Richards was skating around with a cup over head in June while Pleks was watching tv in Kladno. The personal biased opinion of a fan doesn't make it universal true.
The only reason why Richards would get the nod over Plekanec in most circles is because of where he is from. That's it. That's all.

Plekanec is still seen around the league as a soft-perimeter European two-way center. It's completely untrue, of course... but come on.. If you gave Plekanec Pacioretty-Cole as wingers instead of Desharnais the guy could have put up another 70 point season.

Plekanec is better defensively than Richards and he gets just as much offense done with far inferior players. Save for 2008-2009 they've produced VERY similar offensive numbers, with Plekanec always having far inferior line mates.

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Old
07-23-2012, 06:26 PM
  #354
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Richards has marginally superior stats over his career, but he has done so with an additional 150 penalty minutes, in spite of playing fewer games.

I retract my comment that Richards > Plekanec. They are very similar.

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07-23-2012, 06:29 PM
  #355
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The only reason why Richards would get the nod over Plekanec in most circles is because of where he is from. That's it. That's all.

Plekanec is still seen around the league as a soft-perimeter European two-way center. It's completely untrue, of course... but come on.. If you gave Plekanec Pacioretty-Cole as wingers instead of Desharnais the guy could have put up another 70 point season.

Plekanec is better defensively than Richards and he gets just as much offense done with far inferior players. Save for 2008-2009 they've produced VERY similar offensive numbers, with Plekanec always having far inferior line mates.
I think six 70 pts and more seasons (especially two 91 pts seasons) against one and a Conn Smythe trophy help Richards more than where he is from...

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07-23-2012, 06:33 PM
  #356
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The argument of trading Richards for Plekanec is pretty moot.

It's like trading an apple for another apple. There is no perceived advantage of exchanging the two other than for the sake of exchanging them.

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07-23-2012, 06:36 PM
  #357
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I think six 70 pts and more seasons (especially two 91 pts seasons) against one and a Conn Smythe trophy help Richards more than where he is from...
Your looking at the wrong Richards, my friend.

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Old
07-23-2012, 07:39 PM
  #358
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You're saying like if he was the reason LA won the cup .. Without Brown, Quick and Kopitar, or without one of them, Richards would've been playing golf at that time .
Actually I am saying that I cannot believe that Pierre Gauthier rejected the Kings proposal last summer of Simmonds, Schenn, and a second round pick, forcing the Kings to make a deal with the Flyers instead. Since some of you insist that they are equal players, would it not be more appropriate for L.A. to trade for Pleks at a more economical cost and length of contract if they both provide the same result. No, of course not. This is because Richards just brings a few more intangibles like a higher compete level, and physicality that Pleks just doesn't have. Pleks has done well, I don't mind saying. But he does shy away from the physical play, and will probably always be that way. Most fans will not appreciate what Pleks brings to the table, but Habs fans do. But lets not pretend they are equals.

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07-23-2012, 07:42 PM
  #359
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I think six 70 pts and more seasons (especially two 91 pts seasons) against one and a Conn Smythe trophy help Richards more than where he is from...
not sure if serious

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Old
07-23-2012, 07:45 PM
  #360
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anyway

Richards > Plekanec
Gorges > Scuderi

Cole was better than Carter this year but thats about it.

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07-23-2012, 08:11 PM
  #361
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Actually I am saying that I cannot believe that Pierre Gauthier rejected the Kings proposal last summer of Simmonds, Schenn, and a second round pick, forcing the Kings to make a deal with the Flyers instead. Since some of you insist that they are equal players, would it not be more appropriate for L.A. to trade for Pleks at a more economical cost and length of contract if they both provide the same result. No, of course not. This is because Richards just brings a few more intangibles like a higher compete level, and physicality that Pleks just doesn't have. Pleks has done well, I don't mind saying. But he does shy away from the physical play, and will probably always be that way. Most fans will not appreciate what Pleks brings to the table, but Habs fans do. But lets not pretend they are equals.
What trade are you taking about? I never heard this rumored trade proposal before.

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07-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  #362
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What trade are you taking about? I never heard this rumored trade proposal before.
I am referring to the mythical trade world where Pleks is just as good as Mike Richards and therefore equal in trade value.

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Old
07-23-2012, 08:16 PM
  #363
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Sorry guys braincramps about the wrong Richards.

I would still class Mike has little bit better than Plek, because he is as good of a two-way forward, but actually hit 80 pts and had better playoff runs.

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07-23-2012, 08:37 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The argument of trading Richards for Plekanec is pretty moot.

It's like trading an apple for another apple. There is no perceived advantage of exchanging the two other than for the sake of exchanging them.
Well Richards is potentialy better offensively.

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Old
07-23-2012, 09:23 PM
  #365
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1) LA was not a legitimate 8th place team last year. They didn't just win the Stanley Cup on some Cinderella run -- they dominated every single one of their opponents. I think they went 12-2 through the Western Conference. Does that sound like an 8th place team to you?

2) Nashville was not a cap floor team. I tell you the New York Islanders are a cap floor team and you respond by pointing out the Nashville Predators, who were several million dollars above the cap? They're quantitatively different. Islanders are a cap floor team who take on bad contracts to reach the cap floor. Predators can spend several million dollars above the cap floor, and have no need to take on bad contracts. Do you see the Predators taking on Visnovski because of his contract? Why not?

3) Edmonton only has Horcoff now because they were able to buy out Sourray. They had two bad contracts for a while due to their failed quest for 8th place. Now they are completing a proper rebuild. They have Nugent Hopkins, Hall, and Yakupov. They will soon be terrorizing the western conference. Their management the past few seasons has been excellent.

Semin is a bad move because he makes us a bubble team when what we need is a 1-year rebuild with surgical precision. 2012-2013 is possibly the best season in Habs history to have a 1-year rebuild with surgical precision.

- We have new management with a free pass to have a 1-year tank.
- We're already a horrible team and if nothing changes we'll be 12th-15th place.
- 2013 is an extremely deep draft and a great reason to accumulate draft picks.
- Gomez, Bourque, and Kaberle should have their stats padded and be traded at the deadline. Do that and we have zero bad contracts, as well as a ton of draft picks in a deep draft.
- The Hamilton Bulldogs are bringing in Tinordi, Ellis, Gallagher, Beaulieu, hopefully Leblanc, Pateryn, Holland, etc. If we're going to lose we should lose now while the bulk of the future of the team is in Hamilton. We don't want to be losing in 2 years when these players join the Habs.
- The future of the team is Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Gorges, Emelin. Can we win anything with that core? No, we cannot. But if we strengthen that core with a couple more pieces we're looking real good.

You and I both agree that Semin is a very good player and an ideal winger for Plekanec. We just disagree about the status of the Habs. I think now is the time to build a championship team. I'm totally stoked for how good this team is going to be if we do the 1-year rebuild with surgical precision that I propose above.

4) Any player should be traded for the right package.

1) Fact remains, they finished 8th. Indisputable fact. Point is, top tier teams can easily drop to 8th, and 8th place teams can challenge the top seeds.

2) Preds didn't spend to the cap. They have been a low spending team since forever.
Islanders have poor management, that's why they suck. Not because they're a low cap spending team.

3) Edmonton's poorly managed. Yakupov and RNH are already at a 3.775, Hall at 3.75, Schultz at 3.775. Their support cast isn't all that great, and their defense is still quite bad. They should have started to better support those players before. They could have a very good team, but instead I still don't see them make the POs.

4) Obviously, but not for draft picks.



Where we disagree is indeed on the status of the Habs. I don't think we're nearly as bad as you say. We're not a horrible team. How far do we go will depend on how Therrien coaches. I certainly don't think we're a lotto team again next year, so is it really worth doing nothing just so we can ''hope'' to draft high? I'd be really happy to pick top 5 next year, but I don't see it happening. Am I confident we can build a winning team even if we don't and make the POs next year? Absolutely.
Semin is a great addition, one that could be better than whoever we might draft next year, even in the top 5. That doesn't mean I want him locked up for 1293 years at 6M.

If MB wants to make it a transition year, that's fine. But I don't think we're as bad as you claim, again, depending on coaching, not the players. And I don't think any team should pass up on the opportunity to improve for something that's completely unsure (picking top 5).

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07-23-2012, 09:38 PM
  #366
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I agree with most your post except I dont think Richards is better than Pleks. Pleks always seems to play with inferior linemates. Richards always has a go to guy on his wing. Pleks has his best seasn when Kovalev and Kostitsyn we on fire. He needs legit wingers to show how good he can be offensively because his defensive game is top notch
Are you high? Mike Richards is a star player. Plekanec is a borderline 1st second liner.

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07-24-2012, 12:04 AM
  #367
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As per your comment on Weber not wanting to be there, I read a tweet today saying it was Pile who walked away from a 3 year $7M counter offer from Webers camp last year. I don't think it's a case of Weber not wanting to stay. It's a case of him wanting to get PAID.
Webers agent was on The FAN 590 and said that Weber wants to be in Philadelphia. He doesn't have any bad feelings towards Nashville but is ready to move on and be a Flyer.

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07-24-2012, 12:05 AM
  #368
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Are you high? Mike Richards is a star player. Plekanec is a borderline 1st second liner.
Richards is a world class **** but I would take him over Plekanec in the playoffs any day of the week.

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07-24-2012, 12:32 AM
  #369
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Are you high? Mike Richards is a star player. Plekanec is a borderline 1st second liner.
Star? wow you throw that term out loosely. Look at the stats before you call Richards a star. 527 games he has 393 pts

Plekanec in 551 habs 363 points. Pleks is also as good or better defensively. Richards is hardly a star with those stats. But I guess Im high

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07-24-2012, 12:37 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
Star? wow you throw that term out loosely. Look at the stats before you call Richards a star. 527 games he has 393 pts

Plekanec in 551 habs 363 points. Pleks is also as good or better defensively. Richards is hardly a star with those stats. But I guess Im high
Good post, especially for someone on LSD.

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07-24-2012, 12:38 AM
  #371
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Star? wow you throw that term out loosely. Look at the stats before you call Richards a star. 527 games he has 393 pts

Plekanec in 551 habs 363 points. Pleks is also as good or better defensively. Richards is hardly a star with those stats. But I guess Im high
Richards is tougher, and is better defensively.

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:42 AM
  #372
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You seem to be unfamiliar with this Stepan guy they have. Kreider can play centre too. They have no shortage of fire power. The only slight concern would be their 3rd RW. Rupp or Christian Thomas might have to step up. Either way they have what it takes.
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Who says they can't still do it?

They have the goaltending and 3 young studs on D not yet in their prime.
I credit the rangers with a great chemistry and it reminds me of our conference win. They had a great year, no doubt. On paper, they have a team to repeat what they did - top their division, the conference. I just don't think that the pieces they gave away are going to be as easy to replace (both in terms of depth production, and chemistry) as some here believe. If stepan and kreider need 2-3 years to take charge and step up, its going to be an ugly contract situation to deal with in 2 years. I don't think they match up well at center with any other contenders. there are a few question marks -like it or not - , and I find it personally entertaining to read how that trade makes the rangers look so good on paper, I'd link that up to the playstation threads, where things like chemistry and reliable 50 pts 2 way centers (dubinsky) are not needed/ or simply don't exist.

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07-24-2012, 01:22 AM
  #373
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Good post, especially for someone on LSD.

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07-24-2012, 04:42 AM
  #374
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Star? wow you throw that term out loosely. Look at the stats before you call Richards a star. 527 games he has 393 pts

Plekanec in 551 habs 363 points. Pleks is also as good or better defensively. Richards is hardly a star with those stats. But I guess Im high
Agreed...I have always felt Richards has been overrated...good player, but...

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Old
07-24-2012, 05:47 AM
  #375
Kriss E
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Richards is tougher, and is better defensively.
Tougher and better offensively, sure. Defensively? I don't think so.
Plekanec is as solid as can be defensively, and let's not forget the PK where he seemed to get a breakaway in every game. Problem is he didn't capitalize on those chances often.

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