HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

[NYR/CBJ] Rick Nash+Steven Delisle+3rd for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, 1st (part III)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-24-2012, 12:36 AM
  #51
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
you seem to be getting carried away. most people are saying this is the best howson could do. i also believe nash would have fetched no more unless a team didnt like a guy -jvr- or a team wanted to move cap hit for deals later. also i think howson had no interest in any asset over a certain age which limited the ability of the few trade partners to squeeze nash in and still have cap options to make further transactions.

the reality is that the return isnt large... but its fair for nash at his cap hit and his small market of allowed teams.
Carried away? I may be wired on caffeine, but I'm calmer than I've been in days.

I think that we can look at the return as "high-end change-of-scenery players". Anisimov and Dubinsky weren't going to crack the top-6 permanently; the players ahead of them are just too good at this point. Erixon was unlikely to get anything more than third-pairing minutes as a best-case scenario.

But pretty much anywhere else in the league, they'd be logging serious minutes and getting prime opportunities. I can this really working out well for both sides; Nash can hit 50, and the two forwards can combine for 40-50 depending on how they're used. Erixon may be able to play right away, and if not, he'll be the first guy called up AND allow Ryan Murray another year in the WHL.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 12:41 AM
  #52
DJOpus
Registered User
 
DJOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabovski View Post
It was figurable that Howson would receive roughly 4 first round pick type players for Nash, but were these 3 really the best offer to go with a 1st? Dubi? Ani? A dman who has proven nothing? Hard to believe this was the best one out there
I find it funny that you rate a 1st over Erixon, I know the guy gets a lot of hate for walking out on Calgary but the guy has been rated a top 15 prospect overall which would make him basically a top 5-7 pick in a draft.

DJOpus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 12:44 AM
  #53
t0psh3lfclu7ch
Real Men Have Scars
 
t0psh3lfclu7ch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to t0psh3lfclu7ch
I think its a fair hockey trade

t0psh3lfclu7ch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 12:51 AM
  #54
WPGNYRFan
Registered User
 
WPGNYRFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,214
vCash: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Carried away? I may be wired on caffeine, but I'm calmer than I've been in days.

I think that we can look at the return as "high-end change-of-scenery players". Anisimov and Dubinsky weren't going to crack the top-6 permanently; the players ahead of them are just too good at this point. Erixon was unlikely to get anything more than third-pairing minutes as a best-case scenario.

But pretty much anywhere else in the league, they'd be logging serious minutes and getting prime opportunities. I can this really working out well for both sides; Nash can hit 50, and the two forwards can combine for 40-50 depending on how they're used. Erixon may be able to play right away, and if not, he'll be the first guy called up AND allow Ryan Murray another year in the WHL.
WTF? A post I agree with you on? Gah, that's going to leave a bitter taste.

WPGNYRFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 12:51 AM
  #55
KPower
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 500
Bluejackets got Dubinsky,Ansimov,Erixon,first round pick and

McKinnon and top 5 draft pick for the next 5 years.

Not too shabby.

KPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 12:53 AM
  #56
Duck Off
HF needs an App
 
Duck Off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Country: United States
Posts: 10,233
vCash: 500
I think the deal is pretty bad for Columbus, not god awful like some are saying, but it's definitely bad. What blows my mind is if this is what it took to move Nash, this should not have dragged out.

Duck Off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 12:54 AM
  #57
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPGNYRFan View Post
WTF? A post I agree with you on? Gah, that's going to leave a bitter taste.
Your avatar is the reason I'm still awake. Forget about "can't sleep, clown'll eat me"....that's just creepy.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:00 AM
  #58
slightlystewpid420
Registered User
 
slightlystewpid420's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I find it funny that you rate a 1st over Erixon, I know the guy gets a lot of hate for walking out on Calgary but the guy has been rated a top 15 prospect overall which would make him basically a top 5-7 pick in a draft.
Erixon was selected two picks after john moore in 09 fyi

slightlystewpid420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:00 AM
  #59
JS19
Four Kicks
 
JS19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Shark Tank
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Funny how that works. We've heard for months about how horribly overrated Nash is, how he's not worth X player straight up, how he's a 60-point player and never had 80, blah blah blah.

Then the trade happens, and suddenly it's "highway robbery". In draft pick value, Anisimov and Dubinsky alone are probably worth late-1st rounders each, and Erixon closer to the middle of the round.
I don't think you understand, Howson has repeatedly told the media that he will not move Nash unless it was a trade that gave him the most value possible, and from what I know, sources have indicated that he asked for Logan Couture, Jeff Skinner, Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier. On top of that, Howson rejected essentially the same package from New York at the trade deadline, therefore giving the idea that Howson wants the moon for Nash.

Now all of a sudden, he lets go of his tight reins and take Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and (potentially late) 1st rounder for his superstar? With all due respect to NYR's assets, they simply don't compare to the likes of Couture, Skinner, Schenn and Couturier from the potential standpoint...

So now you understand why Howson has no credibility, and ultimately no respect from the hockey community after he shows up with a trade like this.

JS19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:02 AM
  #60
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
I think the deal is pretty bad for Columbus, not god awful like some are saying, but it's definitely bad. What blows my mind is if this is what it took to move Nash, this should not have dragged out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
I don't think you understand, Howson has repeatedly told the media that he will not move Nash unless it was a trade that gave him the most value possible, and from what I know, sources have indicated that he asked for Logan Couture, Jeff Skinner, Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier. On top of that, Howson rejected essentially the same package from New York at the trade deadline, therefore giving the idea that Howson wants the moon for Nash.

Now all of a sudden, he lets go of his tight reins and take Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and (potentially late) 1st rounder for his superstar? With all due respect to NYR's assets, they simply don't compare to the likes of Couture, Skinner, Schenn and Couturier from the potential standpoint...

So now you understand why Howson has no credibility, and ultimately no respect from the hockey community after he shows up with a trade like this.
I think that says something about the caliber of packages that were actually being offered by other teams. If this is the best of what's available from teams on "the list", then we're left to draw one of the following conclusions:

1) Everyone was offering complete garbage, packaged many different ways. I'm reminded of the story of Prometheus, who pissed off the Olympian gods by offering one of two sacrifices. One was full of choice meat with rotted garbage on the very top, and the other was rotted garbage with choice meat on top. That's not the only way he infuriated them, but I always like using that as a comparison.

If JVR was talked about from Philly, was it him and three spare parts? If it was Filppula from Detroit, was it him and two spare parts? If it was Pavelski from San Jose, was it him and a low draft pick with one spare part? We may never know.

2) It's possible that the CBJ have the Rangers' players scouted and graded substantially higher than what was offered from other teams. For the most part, we have access to limited information. We have neutral prospect grading on this very site, plus a few other good resources. We have the opinions of other fans, and snippets from coaches and front office.

But as far as the real stuff, we're generally blind. We tend to react with shock when a player who everyone thinks is better is passed over in the draft in favor of someone with much less of a name, and then act more shocked when it works out. We see minor deals (like Columbus trading Tom Sestito for Michael Chaput) through a very limited scope, then don't know how to grasp a low-level prospect suddenly exploding.

So we have no idea what the holdup was. It's possible that Columbus had no use for JT Miller and Christian Thomas, and everyone would be shocked to know if Anisimov was graded higher internally than either of them. All we can do is wait and see.

(EDIT: The amount of speculation, with nary a peep from the CBJ front office in the last six months, is incredible. We had reports that not only clashed, but were outright contradictory. It was basically a massive "source fight", with the media on all sides being played and used as pawns. I don't remember seeing something like this in recent history)

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:03 AM
  #61
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPower View Post
This trade is going to kill the jackets.

Relocated in less than 3 years IMO.
Relocated to the playoffs? Fine by me!

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:04 AM
  #62
deckercky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
I think the deal is pretty bad for Columbus, not god awful like some are saying, but it's definitely bad. What blows my mind is if this is what it took to move Nash, this should not have dragged out.
The market had stagnated. At a certain point, Howsen saw the most anyone would pay, and he felt this had the best building pieces for the future. The only way Nash's value would suddenly change is if he started the season on fire, or changed his list to include more teams.

I think Nash returned about what he should. Columbus got some good young pieces, most of which can step in right away, and New York got the best player of the group. If Nash remains a 65 pt player prone to floating for offensive chances, Columbus probably wins the trade. If Nash goes into the two way workhorse he is when he plays for Canada, or the Rocket Richard threat every year, it looks lopsided for New York.

deckercky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:04 AM
  #63
slightlystewpid420
Registered User
 
slightlystewpid420's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
I don't think you understand, Howson has repeatedly told the media that he will not move Nash unless it was a trade that gave him the most value possible, and from what I know, sources have indicated that he asked for Logan Couture, Jeff Skinner, Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier. On top of that, Howson rejected essentially the saime package from New York at the trade deadline, therefore giving the idea that Howson wants the moon for Nash.

Now all of a sudden, he lets go of his tight reins and take Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and (potentially late) 1st rounder for his superstar? With all due respect to NYR's assets, they simply don't compare to the likes of Couture, Skinner, Schenn and Couturier from the potential standpoint...

So now you understand why Howson has no credibility, and ultimately no respect from the hockey community after he shows up with a trade like this.
No its pretty smart. Ask for as much as you can to run the price up knowing you cant get it. Howson was in a REALLY tight situation, with very limited options.

slightlystewpid420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:08 AM
  #64
LBC Vapo*
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
Are you? The potential(key word potential) of jack johnson and ryan murray alone make their D immensely better. And they are insaley young. JJ is only 25 and is captain of team America. Him and wiz together are scary. Murray has been captain of every team hes played for since he was 10. That says something. And his hockey iq is off the charts, when you have that kinda feel for the game, sky is the limit. And then theres nikitin. Who had a breakout season last year and put up 32pts last season. And ill bet he'll put upwards of 40 this year with solid D partners and a nhl caliber goalie behind him.
Wow I had no idea that is what qualified as being "deep defensively"

The majority of their D are puck movers. And they have about 59 of them. They aren't deep defensively.

John Moore got destroyed when he played, Savard played sheltered minutes, no one knows if Nikitin and Tyutin can replicate their small sample size, and I would wager approx. zero people in LA miss Jack Johnson. Oh, and I won't even get into the defensive disaster that is one James Wisniewski.

They have a surplus of D, but they aren't deep defensively.


Last edited by LBC Vapo*: 07-24-2012 at 01:13 AM.
LBC Vapo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:10 AM
  #65
JS19
Four Kicks
 
JS19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Shark Tank
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
No its pretty smart. Ask for as much as you can to run the price up knowing you cant get it. Howson was in a REALLY tight situation, with very limited options.
No it's dumb, it only works if the market agrees with what you're offering (take the Penguins for instance, if they somehow decide to trade Malkin, the market would go bonkers over getting the guy, Shero could then use that to stage a bidding war due to market shenanigans). Rick Nash had everything against him, bloated cap hit, decreasing production, and publicly asked for trade (thanks to Howson's idiotic move to pin it on Nash when he didn't say anything). Because Howson asked what he asked, he was actually alienating potential buyers.

JS19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:13 AM
  #66
candyman82
Registered User
 
candyman82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 2,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPower View Post
This trade is going to kill the jackets.

Relocated in less than 3 years IMO.
You don't know much about the Jackets new lease do you? Or hockey business for that matter.

candyman82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:15 AM
  #67
LBC Vapo*
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
You don't know much about the Jackets new lease do you? Or hockey business for that matter.
That new lease killing the possibility of relocation made the NHL worse as a whole. The team will not succeed ever with this management in place, and that solidified it for the future. Incredible.

LBC Vapo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:17 AM
  #68
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Generally View Post
That new lease killing the possibility of relocation made the NHL worse as a whole. The team will not succeed ever with this management in place, and that solidified it for the future. Incredible.
Yup, stability is bad for pro leagues. Who knew?

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:19 AM
  #69
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 20,384
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:22 AM
  #70
KPower
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
You don't know much about the Jackets new lease do you? Or hockey business for that matter.
I know losing 25 million/season is not good business .

And now with no star player that number could easily increase.

KPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:25 AM
  #71
Xoggz22
Registered User
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,268
vCash: 500
As a CBJ fan I'm OK with this deal. Of course I hoped for more just like everyone else but getting 2 top 6 or top 9 forwards and 1st and a promising d-man prospect seems like a pretty good return. In Hockey talk you could certainly say the Rangers "won" the trade because they flat out got the best playerin the deal by far. However, Columbus became a better team today and with 3 picks in the 1st round next year they can address the high end skill they lack while adhering to the Nashville recipe for success. Good goaltending (We're working on that ), good defense and offense that plays in all three zones.

Columbus will have a solid forecheck, excellent PK, solid faceoff players and should control the puck. With the defense as strong as it looks this team is far better than the 2012 version. I can't wish Nash luck because as much as he was my favorite player I absolutely can't stand the Rags. There's something about growing up and Islanders fan that simply does that to a man.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:26 AM
  #72
Xoggz22
Registered User
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Yup, stability is bad for pro leagues. Who knew?
I admire your courage in the face of stupidity. I love that ignore thingy. It's just not worth feeding fodder to the trolls.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:27 AM
  #73
slightlystewpid420
Registered User
 
slightlystewpid420's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
No it's dumb, it only works if the market agrees with what you're offering (take the Penguins for instance, if they somehow decide to trade Malkin, the market would go bonkers over getting the guy, Shero could then use that to stage a bidding war due to market shenanigans). Rick Nash had everything against him, bloated cap hit, decreasing production, and publicly asked for trade (thanks to Howson's idiotic move to pin it on Nash when he didn't say anything). Because Howson asked what he asked, he was actually alienating potential buyers.
What potential buyers, there were only like 5 potential buyers, and then thosr buyers had to meet howsoms criteria as well. 2 nhl ready players a prospect and a first. Howson got exactly what he asked for and what the team needed. Could he have gotten more with more leeway, of course. But he made due with what was given. And made the best decision moving forward for the future of the team even if it means losing nash at a "discount rate"

slightlystewpid420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:29 AM
  #74
Xoggz22
Registered User
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPower View Post
I know losing 25 million/season is not good business .

And now with no star player that number could easily increase.
That is 100% correct. However, I'll refer you back to the other post you responded to. The new lease and other changes have changed that scenario dramatically. While the team didn't make money last year, the losses were not nearly as dramatic and given they played 80% of the season near the cap that's a dramatic improvement.

I'm not sure why people are wishing ill will on the CBJ. All professional leagues have the most success when more teams are doing well, not poorly. Here's hoping the Rags get that 3rd round pick.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:32 AM
  #75
West Coast Eagles
Classless
 
West Coast Eagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bne
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
Wow, still can't believe Howson turned down the package of Zibanejad, Foligno, and Bishop.

Would of had top 6 of:

Foligno-Umberger-Prospal
Johansen-Zibanejad-Brassard

That would still probably finish last, but with increased prospect depth and a chance at Mackinnon or Jones. That would get the interest back there.

Now they have:

Foligno-Umberger-Dubinsky
Anisemov-Johansen-Prospal

Would prob still finish last, but no Zibanejad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
What happened?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Generally View Post
Howson didn't turn it down.
From the Ottawa board it appears Howson actually didn't approach Nash about coming to Ottawa, so in essence he did turn it down.

@TheFourthPeriod

Howson said he never presented Nash with a team outside of his list, but hinted more teams/offers could have came in had there been no list
https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/...28006393020416

Don't know how to quote from the Ottawa board/to lazy to look in to it. But one of our mods posted the above.

West Coast Eagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.