HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

[NYR/CBJ] Rick Nash+Steven Delisle+3rd for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, 1st (part III)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-24-2012, 01:33 AM
  #76
SkiesOfArcadia
Duckjet's Chairman
 
SkiesOfArcadia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Shark Tank
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
What potential buyers, there were only like 5 potential buyers, and then thosr buyers had to meet howsoms criteria as well. 2 nhl ready players a prospect and a first. Howson got exactly what he asked for and what the team needed. Could he have gotten more with more leeway, of course. But he made due with what was given. And made the best decision moving forward for the future of the team even if it means losing nash at a "discount rate"
There's meeting criteria and then there's asking for the moon, and your first sentence was exactly my point...why would Howson ask for the moon if he already had limited options? Hell, it could've gotten to the point where the market has 0 need for Nash (NY could've moved onto Bobby Ryan? etc.). And based on what he was asking for, no he didn't get what he wanted...Dubi, Anisimov, Erixon and a late 1st does not match up to Skinner, Schenn-Couturier, Couture and Ottawa's package.

SkiesOfArcadia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:34 AM
  #77
KPower
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
That is 100% correct. However, I'll refer you back to the other post you responded to. The new lease and other changes have changed that scenario dramatically. While the team didn't make money last year, the losses were not nearly as dramatic and given they played 80% of the season near the cap that's a dramatic improvement.

I'm not sure why people are wishing ill will on the CBJ. All professional leagues have the most success when more teams are doing well, not poorly. Here's hoping the Rags get that 3rd round pick.
I don't wish the jackets ill will.

I just think this was a bad trade and howson is a horrible gm.

KPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:36 AM
  #78
BoonesJenner
Registered User
 
BoonesJenner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,065
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Generally View Post
Wow I had no idea that is what qualified as being "deep defensively"

The majority of their D are puck movers. And they have about 59 of them. They aren't deep defensively.

John Moore got destroyed when he played, Savard played sheltered minutes, no one knows if Nikitin and Tyutin can replicate their small sample size, and I would wager approx. zero people in LA miss Jack Johnson. Oh, and I won't even get into the defensive disaster that is one James Wisniewski.

They have a surplus of D, but they aren't deep defensively.
Maube thats because LA has a surplus of scorers where as nikitin was top 5 in pts for cbj last year. 40+pts is huge in cbus and having 2 potentially 3 or 4 dmen doing that is insane. Of course we have to wait and see.

BoonesJenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:38 AM
  #79
WPGNYRFan
Registered User
 
WPGNYRFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
That is 100% correct. However, I'll refer you back to the other post you responded to. The new lease and other changes have changed that scenario dramatically. While the team didn't make money last year, the losses were not nearly as dramatic and given they played 80% of the season near the cap that's a dramatic improvement.

I'm not sure why people are wishing ill will on the CBJ. All professional leagues have the most success when more teams are doing well, not poorly. Here's hoping the Rags get that 3rd round pick.
No ill will here, I hope CBJ starts having some success sometime soon. Fans definitely deserve some.

WPGNYRFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:40 AM
  #80
candyman82
Registered User
 
candyman82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 2,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPGNYRFan View Post
No ill will here, I hope CBJ starts having some success sometime soon. Fans definitely deserve some.
Thank you.

I hate your avatar. ****ing hate it

candyman82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:41 AM
  #81
Xoggz22
HFB Partner
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
There's meeting criteria and then there's asking for the moon, and your first sentence was exactly my point...why would Howson ask for the moon if he already had limited options? Hell, it could've gotten to the point where the market has 0 need for Nash (NY could've moved onto Bobby Ryan? etc.). And based on what he was asking for, no he didn't get what he wanted...Dubi, Anisimov, Erixon and a late 1st does not match up to Skinner, Schenn-Couturier, Couture and Ottawa's package.
There is always a market for a player like Nash. It didn't turn out as the fans wanted but that doesn't mean there was no value in this deal. For a while on these boards Nash was being compared to a salary dump and his value wasn't anything more than a 2nd and Dubinsky.

I'm sure you understand the art of negotiation and you don't start out with the offer you might accept. If Ryan gets moved it will be interesting to see what he goes for. I'm sure plenty will support the theory that Howson ruined Ryan's value too by trading Nash for junk. Again, Columbus is actually a better team today even though the Rags got the best player, by far, in the deal.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:42 AM
  #82
BoonesJenner
Registered User
 
BoonesJenner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,065
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
There's meeting criteria and then there's asking for the moon, and your first sentence was exactly my point...why would Howson ask for the moon if he already had limited options? Hell, it could've gotten to the point where the market has 0 need for Nash (NY could've moved onto Bobby Ryan? etc.). And based on what he was asking for, no he didn't get what he wanted...Dubi, Anisimov, Erixon and a late 1st does not match up to Skinner, Schenn-Couturier, Couture and Ottawa's package.
Because nash IS the team to damn near everybody im columbus, you say jackets they say nash. Majority of people dont know jack **** about hockey and only know what the news reports or friends tell them. Hes smart enough to not just give away the face of the franchise unless hes sure hes going to get exactly what you want. Ask for the moon and the stars knowing your just gonna get the moon. So when you get a moon and a star it doesnt seem so bad and everyone's happy.But no ones gonna be happy until next seasons over and someone can say i told you so.

BoonesJenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:44 AM
  #83
Qvist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,337
vCash: 500
The surprise is I would have thought Howson would get at least one grade A asset out of this. But obviously, there wasn't one wasn't forthcoming. He got four good assets, which isn't bad. Look at it this way, it's not much different from the compensation the Predators will get for Shea Weber if they don't match the Flyers' offer sheet.

Qvist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:47 AM
  #84
SkiesOfArcadia
Duckjet's Chairman
 
SkiesOfArcadia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Shark Tank
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
There is always a market for a player like Nash. It didn't turn out as the fans wanted but that doesn't mean there was no value in this deal. For a while on these boards Nash was being compared to a salary dump and his value wasn't anything more than a 2nd and Dubinsky.

I'm sure you understand the art of negotiation and you don't start out with the offer you might accept. If Ryan gets moved it will be interesting to see what he goes for. I'm sure plenty will support the theory that Howson ruined Ryan's value too by trading Nash for junk. Again, Columbus is actually a better team today even though the Rags got the best player, by far, in the deal.
I know about the art of negotiation, but you also don't start out with an insulting offer by going after teams' non-starters, sure you go a tad bit high, but not that high. I guess my problem is how Howson asked for so much only to get so little.

SkiesOfArcadia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:48 AM
  #85
Xoggz22
HFB Partner
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
Maybe thats because LA has a surplus of scorers where as nikitin was top 5 in pts for cbj last year. 40+pts is huge in cbus and having 2 potentially 3 or 4 dmen doing that is insane. Of course we have to wait and see.
Columbus has enough depth on the back end to allow Murray (considered NHL ready) to go back to Juniors if they choose. There is a very strong likelihood that the CBJ offense will be generated from the defense and their transition should be excellent. You are spot on that they likely have 3 d-men with high potential to put up 40+pts. There are unproven aspects to the group but adding Erixon has the potential to add another solid top 3 future d-man.

Also, the only d-man over 30 is Aucoin who was specifically brought in to help solidify the back end and bring some maturity to the ranks to further help the youngsters along. Future is very bright.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:52 AM
  #86
Xoggz22
HFB Partner
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
The surprise is I would have thought Howson would get at least one grade A asset out of this. But obviously, there wasn't one wasn't forthcoming. He got four good assets, which isn't bad. Look at it this way, it's not much different from the compensation the Predators will get for Shea Weber if they don't match the Flyers' offer sheet.
That's a good point, although I would probably throw in that you have LESS control over 4 future 1st round picks than you do with contributing NHL players like Dubinsky and Anisimov. Maybe a bit more of a crap shoot with the picks but what I would be most concerned with is the big contract which was what many complained about with Nash. The contract was horrible and, from what I recall, Dubinsky wasn't even worth moving for Nash.

Xoggz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 01:52 AM
  #87
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
The surprise is I would have thought Howson would get at least one grade A asset out of this. But obviously, there wasn't one wasn't forthcoming. He got four good assets, which isn't bad. Look at it this way, it's not much different from the compensation the Predators will get for Shea Weber if they don't match the Flyers' offer sheet.
Everyone who thought that Rick Nash and Shea Weber would get a similar return, go ahead and raise your hands.

Actually, I'd argue that Columbus is getting MORE for Nash than if Nashville takes the picks, even setting aside how far off in the future those picks would be coming in. If we use Mike Fisher as a comparison for versatile forwards who are good for 45-55 points and can play special teams, then similar forwards would be worth a late 1st-rounder (I'm setting aside the conditional pick Ottawa received). That would put Dubinsky in that range, and although Anisimov doesn't possess the same versatility, the tantalizing skill would probably offset that and push him into the same range. The unpegged 2013 1st-rounder is what it is. Erixon's value is quite a bit higher; we'd be looking at the upper end of a first round, possibly top-10, in a given year.

Now, I don't expect Nashville to take the picks. But we can't really analyze it until we know whether they match or trade.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 02:18 AM
  #88
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 19,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPGNYRFan View Post
No ill will here, I hope CBJ starts having some success sometime soon. Fans definitely deserve some.
Yeah me too for sure, and I definitely think they will have too.

As a young franchise I've sometimes felt that they've struggled to see the trees because of the forrest almost. IE, other simular franchises has "sucked" until they got a real great franchise player through a high draft pick, and then followed that player. That didn't work out for CBJ.

But there are certainly other, in many ways, better options.

Right now, their blueline is real deep with JMFJ, Toots and Erixon on the left side and Wis and Nikitin on the right side, next to Ryan Murray who will be a stud.

If you build an offense around Johansen, Dubinsky, Foligno and Anisimov you know that you have 3 top 6 forwards who always will do the right thing and work really hard. With a fair amount of skill on top of it all.

For a team that's supposedly rebuilding, that's definitely not a bad start. It seems like with a team like EDM they will need a handful 1st overalls just to make the PO's. But the reason for that is definitely that they haven't been able to put those picks in a good environment. If Johansen works out, adding one could be enough to put them over the top.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 02:25 AM
  #89
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 19,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
The surprise is I would have thought Howson would get at least one grade A asset out of this. But obviously, there wasn't one wasn't forthcoming. He got four good assets, which isn't bad. Look at it this way, it's not much different from the compensation the Predators will get for Shea Weber if they don't match the Flyers' offer sheet.
I definitely think all three pieces traded by NY to Columbus is somewhat underrated here at HF.

I mean, things written for month's about Dubinsky has just been ridiculous. Erixon in my opinion is heads and shoulders above that Schultz kid that a whole hockey world followed a couple of month ago.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 02:54 AM
  #90
Eternal Sunshine
 
Eternal Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Somalia
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
Wow, still can't believe Howson turned down the package of Zibanejad, Foligno, and Bishop.

Would of had top 6 of:

Foligno-Umberger-Prospal
Johansen-Zibanejad-Brassard


That would still probably finish last, but with increased prospect depth and a chance at Mackinnon or Jones. That would get the interest back there.

Now they have:

Foligno-Umberger-Dubinsky
Anisemov-Johansen-Prospal

Would prob still finish last, but no Zibanejad
I would hope they would at least put a C on that first line and a W on that second line because right now its

W-W-W
C-C-C

Eternal Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 03:10 AM
  #91
ThisIsMyAlibi
Howson = Herminated
 
ThisIsMyAlibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Columbus
Country: United States
Posts: 535
vCash: 500
Nash
-overpaid.
-bad back.
-lazy. cherry picker and won't work the boards.
-coach killer.
-OK with losing.
-Can score 30 goals.

ThisIsMyAlibi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 03:11 AM
  #92
Kegu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
You guys realize that CBJ now has one of the deepest D corps in the league now. D wins championships, and you can build an offense from the goal out. Which is exactly what cbj is doing.
Haven't really posted much before, but does picking up erixon and murray in exchange for methot make you any better in the short term. I agree your defensive corps is your strong suit. But maybe you're over-estimating the impact your pick ups will have this year. If murray pans out and erixon becomes a solid top 4 you're defense is better but if erixon is a generic 5-6 and murray is a top 4 guy you're not a whole lot better in the long run. Its not like bottom pairing defensemen are terribly hard to come by. Sorry for the OT


Last edited by Kegu: 07-24-2012 at 03:17 AM.
Kegu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 03:45 AM
  #93
dballislife2
Registered User
 
dballislife2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 889
vCash: 500
nash only gave like 5 teams, considering that u know the return wasn't gonna be near equal...two young 40-50pts top 6 players, potential top 4 D and a 1st is decent

dballislife2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 03:50 AM
  #94
mattihp
Registered User
 
mattihp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Årsta
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,277
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekz View Post
Anisimov could break out and surprise everyone. He does have a pretty sick shot, but he tries the same move every time he's on the ice that rarely works.
Now he is on a team where Huselius can teach him not to do that


Wait, yeah right

mattihp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 04:01 AM
  #95
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bialystok, Poland
Country: Iceland
Posts: 6,324
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Was not really proponent of trading for Nash, but wtf, done is done.
Now just sign Doan at a caphit of Max 5,5m, a RH defender (Rozsival or Kubina?) at around 2m and resign our RFAs Del Zotto and Stralman for reasonable money and then poof -

Nash - Richards - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - Gaborik
Hagelin - Miller/Boyle - Doan
Rupp - Boyle/ Halpern - Pyatt
Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
MDZ - Kubina/Rozsival
Bickel

Lunqvists
Biron

LTIR - Sauer

Oh, and to all the negative Einsteins and haters, it easily fits within the cap if all the deals are reasonable:
Doan = $5,5m
Rozsival/Kubina = $2m
MDZ = $2,5m
Stralman = $1,3m

BBKers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 04:25 AM
  #96
vippe
Registered User
 
vippe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 11,841
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to vippe
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Was not really proponent of trading for Nash, but wtf, done is done.
Now just sign Doan at a caphit of Max 5,5m, a RH defender (Rozsival or Kubina?) at around 2m and resign our RFAs Del Zotto and Stralman for reasonable money and then poof -

Nash - Richards - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - Gaborik
Hagelin - Miller/Boyle - Doan
Rupp - Boyle/ Halpern - Pyatt
Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
MDZ - Kubina/Rozsival
Bickel

Lunqvists
Biron

LTIR - Sauer

Oh, and to all the negative Einsteins and haters, it easily fits within the cap if all the deals are reasonable:
Doan = $5,5m
Rozsival/Kubina = $2m
MDZ = $2,5m
Stralman = $1,3m
I'm sure both MDZ and Stralman will get a couple more 100k than that.. but not far off. Would be a crazy good team if this happend. And I dont think signing Rozsi is going to happen either, he wont go down that much in salary.

vippe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 04:25 AM
  #97
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,246
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
That's a nice first line there, and good depth. Between miller and halpern who'd more likely to end up 13th forward?

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 04:54 AM
  #98
kudymen
4, 15, 38 and 63
 
kudymen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Atlanta (Decatur)
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,868
vCash: 500
Dissapointment, I expected Howson to get at least 10 1st rounders more....

kudymen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 05:01 AM
  #99
Paralyzer008
Registered User
 
Paralyzer008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,804
vCash: 500
My analysis on this trade:

Rangers get a steal of a deal here. The moment I saw this go down, I thought of Sather lounging back with his cigar in his mouth. Nash is a big time goal scorer who, yes, has been declining of recent but being on Columbus can do that to you. Nash is the perfect replacement for Gaborik for the time being and when Gaborik comes back, they could roll with a Nash-Richards-Gaborik line, which is just nasty. He's been pretty durable lately so I don't see injuries being a problem, and I think the only downside with Nash is his contract isn't the greatest. They also get Steven Delisie, who is a good AHL blueliner who the NYR can call-up if someone gets hurt, and if they don't make the final, they do get that consolation third rounder as well.

I can't believe Howson took all of this time to land the package he did. Artem Anisimov and Brandon Dubinsky are probably both 40 point guys but they were depth guys on a great team. It's arguable that they have both peaked already. So it's not a rebuilding move but at the same time it is? Tim Erixon is a good defensive prospect, but CBJ has a good D core and Erixon isn't really ready for the NHL. The first rounder is a gamble at best. I just don't like it for CBJ because the return shows no identity. They trade their best player, so they are rebuilding, right? Wait a second, Dubinsky is 26 and Anisimov is 24, so are they re-tooling? I was hoping to see CBJ land Pavelski + Greiss, or something along those lines.

Paralyzer008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 05:57 AM
  #100
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 39,817
vCash: 500
That much for Jackets getting 1 of MDZ/Stepan/McDonagh.

darko is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.