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U23 World Cup

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07-15-2012, 07:42 AM
  #1
Mr Writer
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U23 World Cup

There's been some preliminary discussion among the various federations about staging an U23 World Cup, to be held every 4 years in September preceding the Olympic Games. So, that puts it at September 2013. The purpose? Well, another International Tournament is always nice, but ideally a lot of Federations would like to get a look at players from the ages of 20-23 in top flight competition to gauge their readiness to compete for a spot on the main Olympic team.

Thoughts: Good idea, bad idea, suggestions for prospective line-ups? But to make it a little more difficult, a player who is under the age of 23 but an obvious choice to make the Olympic team, i.e. Steven Stamkos, can not be included in any potential U23 team. A player like Tyler Seguin can be included as it is still 50/50 he makes the Olympic team.


Last edited by Mr Writer: 07-15-2012 at 08:15 AM.
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07-15-2012, 05:38 PM
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Sweden





Carl Hagelin - Marcus Johansson - Gabriel Landeskog
Mikael Backlund - Marcus Krüger - Gustav Nyquist
David Ullstrom - Jacob Josefson - Mika Zibanejad
Mattias Tedenby - Anton Lander - Magnus Paajarvi



Erik Karlsson - Adam Larsson
Victor Hedman - Oliver Ekman Larsson
David Rundblad - Erik Gustafsson

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07-16-2012, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
Sweden





Carl Hagelin - Marcus Johansson - Gabriel Landeskog
Mikael Backlund - Marcus Krüger - Gustav Nyquist
David Ullstrom - Jacob Josefson - Mika Zibanejad
Mattias Tedenby - Anton Lander - Magnus Paajarvi



Erik Karlsson - Adam Larsson
Victor Hedman - Oliver Ekman Larsson
David Rundblad - Erik Gustafsson

Interesting choices... how many players do you think will make Sweden's Olympic team in Sochi? I see 5 or 6 maybe.

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07-16-2012, 08:55 AM
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Half of those players won't be under 23 in the 2013/14 season, assuming you are going by birth year as the criteria, so it is basically 1991 births and later?

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07-16-2012, 09:24 AM
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That was (is) the idea, to collect on to 1 team those players under 23 year of age and who are not yet a lock for the Senior team. On Sweden's team there, I see at least 6 players who will be players in 2014 if NHL participates.

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07-22-2012, 05:39 AM
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I'll bite.. Born -90 or later and not Olympic locks.

Jarnkrok(91)-Zibanejad(93)-Silfverberg(90)
Tedenby(90)-Johansson(90)-Paajarvi(91)
Klingberg(91)-Kruger(90)-Josefson(91)
Rakell(93)-Lander(91)-Larsson(92)
Fast(91)

Hedman(90)-Larsson(92)
Brodin(93)-Rundblad(90)
Erixon(91)-Ekholm(90)
Klefbom(93)

Markstrom(90)
Nilsson(90)
Lehner(91)

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07-22-2012, 11:23 AM
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USA as of today...

('91)Kreider-('90)Stepan-('91)K.Palmieri
('94)Galchenyuk-('90)T.Johnson-('91)Morin
('92)Saad-('92)Coyle-('90)Kristo
('91)D'Amigo-('92)Bjugstad-('90)Schroeder
('90)McCrae/('92)Watson/('92)Etem/('91)B.Nelson

It's quite hard to figure at forward because so few guys have proven themselves in the pro game. The '90 group looks to be almost completely barren and the '91 and '92 groups still have a lot to prove. Aside from Galchenyuk, I'd be hesitant to go with any '93 or younger players. The lines I have here are completely up for debate so don't read all that much into them.

('90)Carlson-('92)Faulk
('90)Bogosian-('91)Fowler
('91)Leddy-('90)Gardiner
('90)Donovan-('90)Moore
('91)Dumoulin

Defense would clearly be the strong point of the team.

('92)Campbell
('93)Gibson
('90)Joe Cannata

Hard to say here because there are really no '90 and '91 goalies who've proven themselves in the pro game. I'd probably want to bring a bunch of the college guys that age together in a goalie camp and see if they can show better than the two young guys with all the potential.

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07-22-2012, 11:36 AM
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Looks like Sweden and USA could match up pretty well. Both teams have defense as their strength, and kind of unproven offensive corps with lots of potential. We have a little more proven goalies at pro level though.

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07-22-2012, 12:49 PM
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For fun here is a potential team Russia line up

Gusev(92) - Burmistrov(91) - Kuznetsov(92)
Petrov(90) - Loktionov(90) - Tarasenko(91)
Yakupov(93) - Grigorenko(94) - Kucherov(93)
Panarin(91) - Khokhlachev(93) - Burdasov(91)

Extra player: Galiev(91), Chernov(90), Filatov(90), Namestnikov(92)

Voinov(90) - Kulikov(90)
Orlov(91) - Chudinov(90)
Marchenko (92) - Zaitsev(91)

Bobkov(91)
Vasilevsky(94)

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07-22-2012, 03:16 PM
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Never heard of this in Finnish media. Considering the age variations of our national team, I can't see Finland having much interest in this.

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07-22-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulle View Post
For fun here is a potential team Russia line up

Gusev(92) - Burmistrov(91) - Kuznetsov(92)
Petrov(90) - Loktionov(90) - Tarasenko(91)
Yakupov(93) - Grigorenko(94) - Kucherov(93)
Panarin(91) - Khokhlachev(93) - Burdasov(91)

Extra player: Galiev(91), Chernov(90), Filatov(90), Namestnikov(92)

Voinov(90) - Kulikov(90)
Orlov(91) - Chudinov(90)
Marchenko (92) - Zaitsev(91)

Bobkov(91)
Vasilevsky(94)
Don't forget Sergei Kalinin from Omsk, excellent player.

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07-23-2012, 12:16 AM
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Don't forget Sergei Kalinin from Omsk, excellent player.
I agree. I also think Kosov will be a big time player in the near future.

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07-23-2012, 07:06 AM
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Never heard of this in Finnish media. Considering the age variations of our national team, I can't see Finland having much interest in this.

It's being floated as an idea in hockey circles as future Olympics may be a U23 tournament because all federations want an agreement on a revived world cup every four years without exceptions with open bidding for host cities. The NHL may hem and haw forever about Olympic participation, thus just like FIFA does for Football, make it an U23 tournament with a few veteran players and have a fixed date every 4 years for a World Cup (Senior Men's) If the NHL is all in on future olympics, and it looks as though a senior World Cup is not going to happen, then there's a possibility of an U23 World Cup.

The fact of the matter is, the IIHF wants with all their Federations agreements on fixed date tournaments beyond the Olympics and WC. i.e. World Cups.

So if this tournament gets green lighted and is on for Sept 2013. And will accept all players 23 years of age and younger, 1990 born. Team Canada would look like.

Evander Kane (91) Steven Stamkos (90) Jeff Skinner (92)

Taylor Hall (91) John Tavares (90) Jordan Eberle (91)

Adam Henrique (90) R Nugent-Hopkins (93) Tyler Seguin (92)

Brayden Scheen (91) Sean Couturier (92) Ryan O'Reilly (91)

13th. forward Matt Duchene (91)


Micheal Del-Zotto (90) Alex Pietrogangelo (90)

Tyler Myers (90) Travis Hamonic (90)

Ryan Murrary (93) Jared Cowen (91)

Dougie Hamilton (93) Eric Gudbranson (92)


goaltender

Matt Hacket (90)
Kevin Poulin (90)


goalies again Canada's weakest position, so far these two haven't earned #1 spots on NHL rosters, AHL goalies for now, but may develop into something...

but with that offense, Canada only needs their goalies to be steady, not great.

Interesting idea though.... would be interesting if it comes together.

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07-23-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
It's being floated as an idea in hockey circles as future Olympics may be a U23 tournament because all federations want an agreement on a revived world cup every four years without exceptions with open bidding for host cities. The NHL may hem and haw forever about Olympic participation, thus just like FIFA does for Football, make it an U23 tournament with a few veteran players and have a fixed date every 4 years for a World Cup (Senior Men's) If the NHL is all in on future olympics, and it looks as though a senior World Cup is not going to happen, then there's a possibility of an U23 World Cup.

The fact of the matter is, the IIHF wants with all their Federations agreements on fixed date tournaments beyond the Olympics and WC. i.e. World Cups.

So if this tournament gets green lighted and is on for Sept 2013. And will accept all players 23 years of age and younger, 1990 born. Team Canada would look like.

Evander Kane (91) Steven Stamkos (90) Jeff Skinner (92)

Taylor Hall (91) John Tavares (90) Jordan Eberle (91)

Adam Henrique (90) R Nugent-Hopkins (93) Tyler Seguin (92)

Brayden Scheen (91) Sean Couturier (92) Ryan O'Reilly (91)

13th. forward Matt Duchene (91)


Micheal Del-Zotto (90) Alex Pietrogangelo (90)

Tyler Myers (90) Travis Hamonic (90)

Ryan Murrary (93) Jared Cowen (91)

Dougie Hamilton (93) Eric Gudbranson (92)


goaltender

Matt Hacket (90)
Kevin Poulin (90)


goalies again Canada's weakest position, so far these two haven't earned #1 spots on NHL rosters, AHL goalies for now, but may develop into something...

but with that offense, Canada only needs their goalies to be steady, not great.

Interesting idea though.... would be interesting if it comes together.
The sports world in general has very little interest in hockey tournaments of players that are less than the premier elite (e.g., World Junior Championship), so its hard to see how the U23 qualifier would generate any interest at all outside of perhaps Canada. Too nuanced!

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07-23-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
The sports world in general has very little interest in hockey tournaments of players that are less than the premier elite (e.g., World Junior Championship), so its hard to see how the U23 qualifier would generate any interest at all outside of perhaps Canada. Too nuanced!

No question a Senior World Cup is what the IIHF wants...but the IIHF may not get what it wants, so failing that they do want more tournaments, most specifically a World Cup in between Olympics, depending on what happens with future Olympics. And if it fails to garner interest in other federations, the IIHF will just do what it has done with the U20 Championship, rely on Canada to keep it afloat.

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07-23-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
No question a Senior World Cup is what the IIHF wants...but the IIHF may not get what it wants, so failing that they do want more tournaments, most specifically a World Cup in between Olympics, depending on what happens with future Olympics. And if it fails to garner interest in other federations, the IIHF will just do what it has done with the U20 Championship, rely on Canada to keep it afloat.
Its hard to find any evidence that the IIHF is actively working to create more tournaments. They promote the World Championships, so any tournament that would appear to rival the WC (e.g., a World Cup) would work against their basic interests.

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07-23-2012, 12:26 PM
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Its hard to find any evidence that the IIHF is actively working to create more tournaments. They promote the World Championships, so any tournament that would appear to rival the WC (e.g., a World Cup) would work against their basic interests.
The IIHF wants a World Cup in between Olympics, they've also discussed a Championship League, but will never get the NHL's involvement. They've already thrown their support into annual junior world cup which may or may not evolve into anything. The IIHF is floating a lot of ideas out there and wants more. Frankly the idea of an U23 World Cup is a lot better than the junior world cup which the KHL and the FHR is trying to keep afloat.

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07-23-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
It's being floated as an idea in hockey circles as future Olympics may be a U23 tournament because all federations want an agreement on a revived world cup every four years without exceptions with open bidding for host cities. The NHL may hem and haw forever about Olympic participation, thus just like FIFA does for Football, make it an U23 tournament with a few veteran players and have a fixed date every 4 years for a World Cup (Senior Men's) If the NHL is all in on future olympics, and it looks as though a senior World Cup is not going to happen, then there's a possibility of an U23 World Cup.

The fact of the matter is, the IIHF wants with all their Federations agreements on fixed date tournaments beyond the Olympics and WC. i.e. World Cups.
Until I see a source, I call ******** on that one.

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07-23-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
The IIHF wants a World Cup in between Olympics,
NHLPA is the driving force behind the World Cup, Finnish hockey fed boss Kalervo (155€) Kummola has said this many times over the past couple of years. IIHF has no interest in the World Cup, or at least has not had.

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07-23-2012, 02:38 PM
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NHLPA is the driving force behind the World Cup, Finnish hockey fed boss Kalervo (155€) Kummola has said this many times over the past couple of years. IIHF has no interest in the World Cup, or at least has not had.
I absolutely agree. The NHLPA was interested in the Canada/World Cup starting in 1976because the majority of the financial proceeds from the tournament were deposited directly into the bank account of the NHLPA Pension Fund. Back in the '70's and 80's, NHL players didn't make that much money, and they needed to fatten up their pension plan in whatever way they could. Today, when the average player makes 2 to 4 million dollars a year, a $200,000 pension is much less relevant. That's why the World Cup died off in 2004. In any case, the IIHF didn't make a penny from it, and could care less about it.

As for a U23 tournament, I enjoy entertaining international hockey probably more than the average hockey fan, but beyond the U18 and the U20 tournaments, which are showcases for youth talent, these kind of contrived tournaments don't prove anything. Is there really an ongoing argument out there over "which country has the best hockey players born between 1990 and 1994?" No. That is too nuanced. They only care which country has the best hockey team, period. And I have seen no announcements or statements from the IIHF trying to drum these kinds of tournaments up.

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07-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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From a recent IIHF forum. A lot of ideas were floated. nothing is currently being planned, just a bunch of people in various Federation spit balling ideas, to determine which have interest (if at all).. A world cup of hockey was discussed at various age brackets.

3. International calendar in Olympic cycles

Finding an international calendar in the four-year Olympic cycles is easier said than done. It needs a balance between league and national team play, it needs to take into account the European calendar, but also consider the North American season. Other important sport events need to be taken into account to find the right dates for a season-highlight event and ensure large TV coverage.

“We will have a lot to do. To find a solution is very tough,” summarized Franz Reindl of the German Ice Hockey Association after his presentation.

One question: Should a World Championship be played every year? The tournament is of course vital for the IIHF and its global development programs, but also for smaller nations to have that annual competition.

“People should not forget about the smaller and developing countries when it comes to making big decisions,” reminded Zoltan Kovacs of the Hungarian Ice Hockey Federation.

Is May the right month for a World Championship? TV ratings showed a consistent growth for this month even during Olympic years.

What to do with the international breaks? Shall the tournaments remain as they are, be improved or be changed into kind of a European Championship? The games being played in these breaks are essential in generating money for the national ice hockey associations and their programs.

Another topic: Can the NHL’s international participation with a break, for example in February, be extended to a break every two years (i.e. with a World Cup of Hockey two years after the Olympics) or every year (with a World Championship in non-Olympic years) as some suggested?

Can the NHL and its owners be convinced that being part of international hockey and help development in other countries is a good cause that also serves the NHL in the long run? And how can international events be made more appealing to the NHL?

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07-23-2012, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
From a recent IIHF forum. A lot of ideas were floated. nothing is currently being planned, just a bunch of people in various Federation spit balling ideas, to determine which have interest (if at all).. A world cup of hockey was discussed at various age brackets.

3. International calendar in Olympic cycles

Finding an international calendar in the four-year Olympic cycles is easier said than done. It needs a balance between league and national team play, it needs to take into account the European calendar, but also consider the North American season. Other important sport events need to be taken into account to find the right dates for a season-highlight event and ensure large TV coverage.

“We will have a lot to do. To find a solution is very tough,” summarized Franz Reindl of the German Ice Hockey Association after his presentation.

One question: Should a World Championship be played every year? The tournament is of course vital for the IIHF and its global development programs, but also for smaller nations to have that annual competition.

“People should not forget about the smaller and developing countries when it comes to making big decisions,” reminded Zoltan Kovacs of the Hungarian Ice Hockey Federation.

Is May the right month for a World Championship? TV ratings showed a consistent growth for this month even during Olympic years.

What to do with the international breaks? Shall the tournaments remain as they are, be improved or be changed into kind of a European Championship? The games being played in these breaks are essential in generating money for the national ice hockey associations and their programs.

Another topic: Can the NHL’s international participation with a break, for example in February, be extended to a break every two years (i.e. with a World Cup of Hockey two years after the Olympics) or every year (with a World Championship in non-Olympic years) as some suggested?

Can the NHL and its owners be convinced that being part of international hockey and help development in other countries is a good cause that also serves the NHL in the long run? And how can international events be made more appealing to the NHL?
The problem with the World Cup, in the eyes of the IIHF, is that it only encompasses a small contingent of their membership. There is no place in the World Cup for Belgium, Turkey, Israel, or Italy. The IIHF is an umbrella organization for hockey competition among a wide range of countries, and I don't think their focus is limited to matching up the bigs against the bigs.

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07-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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Until I see a source, I call ******** on that one.
I think its quiet obvious that its just OPs dream topic and not reality.

I do have to say that I thought.an U23 tournament has some merit, but the core principal of competition (such as to gauge jr dev in U20) is missing. Since U23 is pretty much adult hockey, and in principal there is no difference than WC, just an pointless U23 limit.

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07-24-2012, 03:42 AM
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You two are too funny, OP's dream topic, IIHF is an umbrella organization World Cup has no traction because it's not all inclusive, what about Turkey, Belgium and Israel??? You're kidding right? That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.

It was an idea floated out there of a revived World Cup 12 team competition, that cities could bid on to host...not an NHL or NHLPA sponsored event... and out of all the ideas that come out of the IIHF, that one had the most merit, in my opinion.

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07-24-2012, 09:33 AM
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You two are too funny, OP's dream topic, IIHF is an umbrella organization World Cup has no traction because it's not all inclusive, what about Turkey, Belgium and Israel??? You're kidding right? That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.

It was an idea floated out there of a revived World Cup 12 team competition, that cities could bid on to host...not an NHL or NHLPA sponsored event... and out of all the ideas that come out of the IIHF, that one had the most merit, in my opinion.
Until we see something from an official source it's just talk and "floated ideas".

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