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How much do Flyers need to "sweeten" the deal for Nashville?

View Poll Results: What additional pieces should the Flyers offer to prevent the Preds from matching?
Meszaros and Gus/Bourdon 19 15.20%
Meszaros, Gus/Bourdon and Laughton/Cousins 10 8.00%
Meszaros, Gus/Bourdon and Voracek/Read/Simmonds 27 21.60%
Couturier/Schenn 8 6.40%
Coburn+/++ 2 1.60%
Nothing at all / call their bluff 59 47.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:30 AM
  #126
TravisUlrich
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
A little under half the people in the thread voted to not trade anything and call the bluff. I really think most are excited about getting Weber but would rather not trade a good portion of the future for him. I think Holmgren is steadfast on not trading Schenn or Couturier for Weber and I think at most Mez and Voracek are on the table. And even then I think Homer really thinks Poile can't match and I don't think he will budge
Honestly, as a Pens fan who is ******** his pants at the idea of Weber being on the Flyers, I can't believe that Holmgren wouldn't be willing to let go of Couturier to gain Shea ****ing Weber. We're talking about the best defenseman for the next 5-8 years.

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07-24-2012, 11:31 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
Just because there has been no talk between homer and nashville doesnt mean ****.
There is a strong possibility that, in addition to the two obvious courses (match, don't match and take the compensation) there is a third path that is at least as likely--some combination of players / picks that Nashville would accept in return for not matching the offer sheet.

If, in fact, the Flyers and Predators have not had any significant talks this week, then it would seem to make that course less likely--and thus reduce by one the options by which Weber ends up a Flyer.

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07-24-2012, 11:32 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
Honestly, as a Pens fan who is ******** his pants at the idea of Weber being on the Flyers, I can't believe that Holmgren wouldn't be willing to let go of Couturier to gain Shea ****ing Weber. We're talking about the best defenseman for the next 5-8 years.
Did you not witness Couturier tea-bagging Malkin in the playoffs?

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:32 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
Honestly, as a Pens fan who is ******** his pants at the idea of Weber being on the Flyers, I can't believe that Holmgren wouldn't be willing to let go of Couturier to gain Shea ****ing Weber. We're talking about the best defenseman for the next 5-8 years.
Holmgren feels he can get Weber without giving up Coots. If it's 11:40 tomorrow and NSH doesn't match, he's right.

I'm okay with him standing pat on that because I really like Couturier is special. I'm not as high on Schenn at all, so I'd deal him, but Coots is a whole different story IMO.

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Or the third option: we found the money to match, but prefer to trade him the picks for players if the return is right, because the contract and bonuses will hamstring us.

As Dreger said, and was repeated in this thread, they may feel they can take the picks and deal them elsewhere, or would rather get Meszaros and a forward and a prospect for two of the picks, then deal the other two for JBo or Yandle. That would replace the first pairing they just lost pretty well, with two 20+minute guys.

What the Flyers did by going the OS route is try to force a trade. The only way Snider (and let's not kid ourselves, Ed is pulling the strings) can ensure he gets Weber is to make sure the Preds don't match by making it worth their while to walk away.

All that is left to be determined is will the best offer meet the final demand?
So you claim it is possible the Preds found the money to pay Weber. Lets say, that is possible. If you had your choice between Mez, a forward (We can say Read), and JBo or Weber.. In what world would you pick Mez, Read, JBo/Yandle... That is my point and I think a few others points of this.

And the Flyers did the OS route for 2 reasons. 1. the price for trading for weber was way too high, so going the offer sheet route assured that if the Flyers got weber it would cost presumably, 4 late first rounders. 2. Keep him out of the East, either the Flyers get him or the Preds. Not the Pens/Rangers/Bruins/Whoever was involved. Youre kidding yourself if you think Homer said "Hey lets sign Weber to a contract that the preds cant afford, but if they pretend they can afford it, i'll throw roster players and good assets at them because they will be forced to trade him now."

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #131
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Um...he practically shut down Malkin as a teenager. You should have seen enough of him to know he is a special player. Also makes no sense to offer him when we can tender an offersheet like we did to extract concessions if they do decide to match and risk financial duress

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07-24-2012, 11:49 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
There is a strong possibility that, in addition to the two obvious courses (match, don't match and take the compensation) there is a third path that is at least as likely--some combination of players / picks that Nashville would accept in return for not matching the offer sheet.

If, in fact, the Flyers and Predators have not had any significant talks this week, then it would seem to make that course less likely--and thus reduce by one the options by which Weber ends up a Flyer.
I would disagree. If Poile had been ringing Holmgrens phone off the hook, he looks desperate.

Last night the preds owners and management had a meeting, one that they allowed to become public knowledge. the purpose of that meeting was obviously to determine if matching is an option, and likely, what would be an acceptable offer to not match.

So now, Poile is likely talking to Holmgren today, with the deadline fast approaching. Im sure Poile has guaranteed Holmgren that the Preds will match, even if thats not true.

All that remains is to see how Holmgren responds... he can either give in and give poile what he wants and try to get as much back from poile in addition to weber as he can(ie maybe we have to throw in Blum or Wilson if we are going to get Coburn, Schenn, or Coots) or else he offers poile a lesser package, which Poile would likely take if he knows he actually cant match, or Holmgren just says "thanks dave good luck with that contract' and then we see whether it was a bluff or not

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07-24-2012, 11:51 AM
  #133
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I think the Preds ownership group needs to reach a decision before they let Poile start talking to Homer; that way he at least knows what to work with in discussions. If there haven't been talks between the two, it could be because the owners haven't given the green light to Poile to do so.

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:57 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I think the Preds ownership group needs to reach a decision before they let Poile start talking to Homer; that way he at least knows what to work with in discussions. If there haven't been talks between the two, it could be because the owners haven't given the green light to Poile to do so.
I hope Homer's BS-meter is true.

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07-24-2012, 12:04 PM
  #135
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If Poile insists on Schenn/Couts.....let them choke on their own vomit with that matching offer.

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07-24-2012, 12:06 PM
  #136
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I am guessing one of Couturier or Schenn would have to go the other way along with other pieces.

A fair deal to me might be both Schenns and a first

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07-24-2012, 12:08 PM
  #137
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I have Couturier on Giroux's level...untradeable.

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07-24-2012, 12:11 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I am guessing one of Couturier or Schenn would have to go the other way along with other pieces.

A fair deal to me might be both Schenns and a first
I think if a deal is worked out there will actually be quite a few pieces because I dont think the Preds can't immediately send Phillys 1st's back to them.

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07-24-2012, 12:13 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I think if a deal is worked out there will actually be quite a few pieces because I dont think the Preds can't immediately send Phillys 1st's back to them.
Basically trade both Schenns for Philly's firsts in 2014-2016(keep 2013). I am fairly certain Nashville can trade them back right away. I think Philly like 12-15 years ago signed Gratton to an offer sheet and instead of forking out 3 first round picks, Tampa returned all of them for players, I assume the rules remain relatively the same now

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07-24-2012, 12:18 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I am guessing one of Couturier or Schenn would have to go the other way along with other pieces.

A fair deal to me might be both Schenns and a first
Apparently the Schenns are really close friends with Weber, part of the reason he wants to come here

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07-24-2012, 12:23 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Basically trade both Schenns for Philly's firsts in 2014-2016(keep 2013). I am fairly certain Nashville can trade them back right away. I think Philly like 12-15 years ago signed Gratton to an offer sheet and instead of forking out 3 first round picks, Tampa returned all of them for players, I assume the rules remain relatively the same now
Lol, you are not getting both Schenns

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07-24-2012, 12:23 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by thelos View Post
Apparently the Schenns are really close friends with Weber, part of the reason he wants to come here
As I said I can't see Nashville not matching the offer sheet unless one of those 2 guys(Couturier or Schenn) comes back and in all reality I think Couturier is the one Philly would rather keep(but I could be wrong). As for Luke I assume Nashville will want a defenseman who could be a top 4 guy as well in return

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07-24-2012, 12:25 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I have Couturier on Giroux's level...untradeable.
I can see why.

If Poile and ownership are truly comfortable matching, then its gonna take an awesome deal to get them to let Weber go.

If (as I believe) Preds ownership will match if they have to but would rather get a healthy return, then a deal without Coots but with Coburn and/or Schenn will happen id Homer truly wants Weber.

if the preds cant match and poile is bluffing, then it could be Voracek and Meszaros

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07-24-2012, 12:25 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I have Couturier on Giroux's level...untradeable.
I may have to start a new thread, questioning Couturier's value. That is a little bit absurd their fish.

I think the world of couturier and see him as our number 1 center down the line, but that is a bold statement.

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07-24-2012, 12:25 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
As I said I can't see Nashville not matching the offer sheet unless one of those 2 guys(Couturier or Schenn) comes back and in all reality I think Couturier is the one Philly would rather keep(but I could be wrong). As for Luke I assume Nashville will want a defenseman who could be a top 4 guy as well in return
Meszaros is your man!

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07-24-2012, 12:28 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by thelos View Post
Meszaros is your man!
For next year I rather have Mez, but for long term purposes I rather have Schenn. I am guessing the fact Meszaros is a UFA in 2 years doesn't really increase his value to Nashville.

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07-24-2012, 12:41 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I may have to start a new thread, questioning Couturier's value. That is a little bit absurd their fish.

I think the world of couturier and see him as our number 1 center down the line, but that is a bold statement.
I'm not making that claim lightly, either. I've thought hard about how much I value him. After what I saw from him this year, and what his advanced stats say (while playing mostly with plugs against stiff competition), I don't think he should be traded at this time. Especially since the defensive ability of our forward corps would take a big hit afterwards.

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07-24-2012, 12:44 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I'm not making that claim lightly, either. I've thought hard about how much I value him. After what I saw from him this year, and what his advanced stats say (while playing mostly with plugs against stiff competition), I don't think he should be traded at this time. Especially since the defensive ability of our forward corps would take a big hit afterwards.
We know Holmgren doesnt really value Defense from his forwards though. I definitely would not trade Couturier, as he is the perfect guy to play behind Giroux.

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07-24-2012, 12:45 PM
  #149
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We know Holmgren doesnt really value Defense from his forwards though.
What?

This fanbase comes out with some corkers.

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07-24-2012, 12:48 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
What?

This fanbase comes out with some corkers.
Have you noticed that Richards, Carter and Gagne are not on the team? and that our top 2 centers are small and weak defensively (especially Briere). Our top defensive forward was a 18-19 year old rookie. Couturier being a BOSS(and Talbot) saved a lot of grief that our defensively challenged forward crop would have faced.

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