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Old
07-24-2012, 12:27 PM
  #926
Roulin
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And he isn't a top 6 forward, he's a 3rd liner on a playoff team who can play in a top 6 role for short stretches in case of injuries. He's a player who can do everything, but he's not great or even very good at anything.

I like Anisimov, but he's pretty much a decent 3rd liner and he'll probably stay one throughout his career.
Dubinsky and Anisimov had the 5th and 6th most ice time among forwards on the #1 team in the East, so I'd say they are pretty well established as 2nd liners.

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07-24-2012, 12:27 PM
  #927
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Thornton's deal isn't relevant to this discussion, because Boston wasn't looking for the best deal avaliable, they were looking to punt Thornton as far away as possible.
Similar to Nash's NTC they couldn't trade him anywhere, but I'm sure they spoke to more than one team and did the best they could. Outside forces forcing them to not get top dollar.

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07-24-2012, 12:35 PM
  #928
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Dubinsky and Anisimov had the 5th and 6th most ice time among forwards on the #1 team in the East, so I'd say they are pretty well established as 2nd liners.
They were 6th and 7th in ES TOI on a team which was in dire need for some help up front.

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:48 PM
  #929
Poulet Kostopoulos
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Nash is over-rated as Doughty was (according to HF fans) last year...

(Then, after all was said and done and the Cup won, most of these HF fans shut their mouth about Doughty.)

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07-24-2012, 12:51 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Nash is over-rated as Doughty was (according to HF fans) last year...

(Then, after all was said and done and the Cup won, most of these HF fans shut their mouth about Doughty.)
Are you boldly predicting a cup in the Big Apple this season?

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07-24-2012, 01:03 PM
  #931
Poulet Kostopoulos
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
Are you boldly predicting a cup in the Big Apple this season?
I never do this kinda stupid prediction.

What I'm saying is that we've haven't seen the best of Nash yet. What you'll be able to do and what role he'll play going forward may surprise a lot of people.

Saying that he's over-rated because he apparently was not able to bring a crappy CBJ team to the next level is an unfair assessment.

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07-24-2012, 01:08 PM
  #932
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Umberger - Brassard - Nash = 30 goals

Nash - Richards - Gaborik = 40+ goals

simple really!

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Old
07-24-2012, 01:09 PM
  #933
Paul Dipietro
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
I never do this kinda stupid prediction.

What I'm saying is that we've haven't seen the best of Nash yet. What you'll be able to do and what role he'll play going forward may surprise a lot of people.

Saying that he's over-rated because he apparently was not able to bring a crappy CBJ team to the next level is an unfair assessment.
Agree. I get the feeling that we're going to see a lot more of "Team Canada" Nash if he plays on a line with Richards and Gaborik

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07-24-2012, 01:18 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Nash is over-rated as Doughty was (according to HF fans) last year...

(Then, after all was said and done and the Cup won, most of these HF fans shut their mouth about Doughty.)
The Kings were a much deeper club than the Rangers currently are. NYR has a huge chunk of payroll in just 4-5 players.

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07-24-2012, 01:21 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerky View Post
Umberger - Brassard - Nash = 30 goals

Nash - Richards - Gaborik = 40+ goals

simple really!
Yes and no.

NYR are a better team, with more depth, so he might not be getting as many minutes. Tortorella might even spread his firepower by putting Nash on the 2nd line.

They also play a different system. Tortorella values defense. The rangers were 11th in the NHL for scoring last year, but 3rd for goals allowed. Whereas the Blue Jackets were 3rd to last for goals allowed, but 7th to last for goals scored, i.e. they played an offensive style.

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Old
07-24-2012, 01:24 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerky View Post
Umberger - Brassard - Nash = 30 goals

Nash - Richards - Gaborik = 40+ goals

simple really!
Or Gaborik could score 50!

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Old
07-24-2012, 01:28 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerky View Post
Umberger - Brassard - Nash = 30 goals

Nash - Richards - Gaborik = 40+ goals

simple really!
Richards numbers went from...

72 GP 28-49-77 in Dallas
to
82 GP 25-41-66 in NYR so a near 25% drop. Everybody assumes Nash will explode in NYR but maybe he doesn't mesh with Tortorella and his numbers don't increase.

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Old
07-24-2012, 01:29 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Using CORSI without applying it in the right context is pointless, not to mention that CORSI is extremely flawed stat to begin with. He played the most with Callahan, McD and Girardi on the ice and while Callahan, Richards, Boyle, Stepan, Gaborik played mostly against Malkin, Giroux, Coburn, Hamonic, Chara, Parise, Kovalchuk, Dubinsky played the most against Parenteau, Streit and Bogosian.

He wasn't the sole player on his line responsible for pushing the puck up the ice, he had some pretty good linemates that helped him in transition.

And he isn't a top 6 forward, he's a 3rd liner on a playoff team who can play in a top 6 role for short stretches in case of injuries. He's a player who can do everything, but he's not great or even very good at anything.

I like Anisimov, but he's pretty much a decent 3rd liner and he'll probably stay one throughout his career.
This post doesn't really address any of my points, nor does it look at any real 'context'. Frankly, it's a superficial overview that's much in line with your previous imbalanced vantage point of Dubinsky. Calling Dubinsky a 3rd liner on a playoff team is beyond absurd, too. (And, nice touch adding the typical boring cliche of 'he's a player who can do everything ...')

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Old
07-24-2012, 01:38 PM
  #939
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Rangers are a deeper team, which means that they have secondary scoring, unlike Columbus, where Nash always had to face the opposing team's best players.

Rangers will probably put Nash and Gaborik on different lines, just to have two offensive threats out there.....but their PP will be insane!

Nash - Stepan - Gaborik

Richards - Del Zotto

I expect Nash to lead the league in PP goals next year......sorry Stamkos

Predicting 23 PP goals, 20 Even Strength goals for a total of 43 for Nash next year


EDIT: Actually, Gaborik will be out for awhile....so I guess it'll be a little lower, as Kreider will probably take Gaborik's place.

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:08 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Jerky View Post
Rangers are a deeper team, which means that they have secondary scoring, unlike Columbus, where Nash always had to face the opposing team's best players.

Rangers will probably put Nash and Gaborik on different lines, just to have two offensive threats out there.....but their PP will be insane!

Nash - Stepan - Gaborik

Richards - Del Zotto

I expect Nash to lead the league in PP goals next year......sorry Stamkos

Predicting 23 PP goals, 20 Even Strength goals for a total of 43 for Nash next year


EDIT: Actually, Gaborik will be out for awhile....so I guess it'll be a little lower, as Kreider will probably take Gaborik's place.
They had most of those guys last year and their PP was only 23rd in the NHL. Columbus was 24th with Nash as their main trigger man.

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:14 PM
  #941
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Breaking!

Preds Match Weber contract. Per TSN990.

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:18 PM
  #942
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I wonder with Weber gone, if Holmgren will come after Subban next?

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:32 PM
  #943
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I wonder with Weber gone, if Holmgren will come after Subban next?
Who cares? Can't imagine PK signing an offer sheet from the Flyers, and if he did the Habs would just match.

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:37 PM
  #944
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Who cares? Can't imagine PK signing an offer sheet from the Flyers, and if he did the Habs would just match.
Exactly. And I further can't imagine that the offer will be anywhere close to the one sent to Weber (all the more reason to match)

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:50 PM
  #945
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Agree. I get the feeling that we're going to see a lot more of "Team Canada" Nash if he plays on a line with Richards and Gaborik
Richards and Gaborik don't play together generally, so that's not likely to happen. I'd assume Nash would play with Richards and Callahan.

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:53 PM
  #946
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I love the fact that the rangers got better and the Flyers got worse.

Hate the flyers.

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:10 PM
  #947
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I'm glad Shea Weber is staying in the western conference. A weaker conference makes it more likely we'll advance to the cup finals in the next 5 years.

Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and New York are the powerhouse teams of the conference this year, especially with the significant losses to Washington and New Jersey.

The rest of the conference is weak. It's mediocrity all the way down after the big 3.

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:20 PM
  #948
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I'm glad Shea Weber is staying in the western conference. A weaker conference makes it more likely we'll advance to the cup finals in the next 5 years.

Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and New York are the powerhouse teams of the conference this year, especially with the significant losses to Washington and New Jersey.

The rest of the conference is weak. It's mediocrity all the way down after the big 3.
As much as I respect Semin, I think Washington will be a whole lot stronger this year. I don't know whether Oates will be any good, but I don't see him being worse than what the Caps had last season. Further, young players like Holtby, Carlson, Alzner, Johansson, Perreault should all improve more. Orlov may have more of an impact. Backstrom and Green shouldn't endure the same injury riddled seasons. Ribeiro will help offset the Semin loss. Frankly, I view Washington as being competitive with your 'big three'.

I think it's also tough to dismiss Boston as being weak or significantly worse than those three clubs. Boston still has a nice collection of players that can compete with most of those top tier clubs.

So that's 5 clubs that are really solid.

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:35 PM
  #949
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As much as I respect Semin, I think Washington will be a whole lot stronger this year. I don't know whether Oates will be any good, but I don't see him being worse than what the Caps had last season. Further, young players like Holtby, Carlson, Alzner, Johansson, Perreault should all improve more. Orlov may have more of an impact. Backstrom and Green shouldn't endure the same injury riddled seasons. Ribeiro will help offset the Semin loss. Frankly, I view Washington as being competitive with your 'big three'.

I think it's also tough to dismiss Boston as being weak or significantly worse than those three clubs. Boston still has a nice collection of players that can compete with most of those top tier clubs.

So that's 5 clubs that are really solid.
I could be wrong about Washington. But they're replacing Semin with Wolski and Ribeiro, so unless they sign someone else I expect them to be weaker. However, they have good youth depth, and Ovechkin just had an off-year, so they could rebound. You make a strong case.

I don't think Boston is on the same level as the other 4. However, they are very likely to have a regular season total of 102 points, as they can beat up on what may be the weakest division in hockey. Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal, and Toronto -- 4 teams that have a legitimate shot at a lottery pick. Is there a single team in the NHL that has as easy a regular season as the Boston Bruins? I doubt it. They will break 100 points again. But they're not on the level of the other teams I mentioned.

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07-24-2012, 03:59 PM
  #950
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I could be wrong about Washington. But they're replacing Semin with Wolski and Ribeiro, so unless they sign someone else I expect them to be weaker. However, they have good youth depth, and Ovechkin just had an off-year, so they could rebound. You make a strong case.

I don't think Boston is on the same level as the other 4. However, they are very likely to have a regular season total of 102 points, as they can beat up on what may be the weakest division in hockey. Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal, and Toronto -- 4 teams that have a legitimate shot at a lottery pick. Is there a single team in the NHL that has as easy a regular season as the Boston Bruins? I doubt it. They will break 100 points again. But they're not on the level of the other teams I mentioned.
I think it's really tough to make this claim on Boston.

What makes Philly, for example, substantially better than Boston?

Goaltending? Edge Boston--though Rask is unproven over the long haul of a season, he's still proven to be a very good netminder.

Defense? Clear winner Boston. Chara's the number one defenseman in the league. Seidenberg's a solid #2. They need a #3, but the rest is pretty decent. Philly, on the other hand, is suffering here.

Forward group? Edge Philly, but not by much. Boston's got a deep forward group: Seguin, Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Horton, Marchand, Peverley, Kelly, etc. That makes for a very balanced, strong top-9 (regardless of who they plug in at #9). Philly's got the top overall forward (Giroux), but after that? Schenn, Voracek, Hartnell, Briere, Couturier, Simmonds, Read.

Frankly, beyond Giroux, there's not much there that strikes much fear in anyone. I think I'd take Boston's forward group over Philly's, now that I look that over. Sure, Philly has depth, but Boston's depth is just as good, and Boston's top-5 or so is much better than Philly's.

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