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Respect the Pens

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Old
12-02-2003, 07:56 AM
  #1
GoRyanMalone
 
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Respect the Pens

I'm angry. Yes, that's right I'm stinking angry at a comment I hear aroud the league. This is it:

'The Pens are nothing but a team of AHLers'

To those capable of reason, this is not true. In fact, they are a team of 3rd and 4th liners and 5th 6th and 7th defencemen.

Here is a list of players that, in my opinion, would not pass through waivers:

Mike Eastwood - Averaging 14:32 of icetime, 8pts 23gp, faceoff specialist.

Milan Kraft - The reasoning is simple, he'd be in the AHL if he would pass through waivers.

Ramzi Abid - Melancholy point.

Konstantin Koltsov - Getting better by the game.

Rayn Malone - Another rookie success.

Tomas Surovy - a sure fire keeper

Matt Bradley - Debatable, but how about this:

Trade Stu Barnes for Matt Barnaby for Waine Primeau for Matt Bradley
Sure fire NHLer

Rico Fata - You can all sit down now.

Tom Kostopoulus - Sent down in September, but hows he doing in the NHL now?

Aleksey Morozov - any takers?


Now, for the Pens undeniably awesome D.

Drake Berehowskey - If this guy brought as many things to his game that his name brings mind, he's be awesome. 8pts 21gp -5 Not TOO bad.

Marc Bergevin - Getting older, but not an AHLer.

Josef Melichar - a bum shoulder weakened him, but an NHLer, still.

Brooks Orpik - Yes, we can afford this one.

Dick Tarnstrom - 13pts 23gp -4

Michal Rosival - injured


In goal -

Sebastien Caron - Could be argued

MA Fluery - A hot topic.



The bad news -

Steve Mckenna
Brian Holzinger
Kelly Buchberger
Patrick Boileau
Martin Strbak
Dan Focht

All in all, not a team of AHLers.

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Old
12-02-2003, 08:11 AM
  #2
Bobby Orr's Knees
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People will not respect the Pens until they stop throwing seasons and start putting NHL quality talent on the ice. Half the guys you listed would not make any other NHL team.

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Old
12-02-2003, 08:34 AM
  #3
iagreewithidiots
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I just think its funny how many people want to talk about the Pens managment when the Capitals are just as bad, have many big name players, and a good size payroll. Where are the bad Cpaitals managment threads?

To say the Pens are throwing seasons is insane. I dont understand how CP oversaw 11 straight playoff seasons and now the team is in finanicial trouble and now hes a complete moron. I just dont see it.

If Pens managment is so stupid and incompetent how did they make the playoffs 11 seasons in a row?

Honestly the worst managment decision was the overspending by Howard Baldwin that put them in bankruptcy in the first place.

If people would really take a look at the mess Baldwin left you would get a new respect for what Mario and his group have accomplished so far.

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Old
12-02-2003, 08:35 AM
  #4
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Why should I respect the Penguins. They have to be the worst team I have ever seen iced. THey make bad trades, bad mangerial decisions, and give the fans absolutely no reason to come to the games. So no.......I refuse to respect them. Mario made a respectable move by giving back his 5 million dollar raise, but he shouldn't have accepted it to begin with.

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Old
12-02-2003, 09:41 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Why should I respect the Penguins. They have to be the worst team I have ever seen iced. They make bad trades, bad mangerial decisions, and give the fans absolutely no reason to come to the games....
All that you say is true, but barely a mention of the fact that they are cash-poor. That is the root of all that is wrong with the team. Not directed at you Enoch, you know your stuff, but too many fans look at the on-ice product, or trades, etc. and conveniently gloss over the $$$ issues that are driving each franchise decision.

And, instead of trying to come up with possible economic solutions for resurrecting a once solid organization like the Pens, they casually say "They should fold!...Why should I care about another franchise, another city?"

Great!

That's the easy, myopic, approach. Seems to me that the desire of every owner, player and fan should be to ice 30 economically viable franchises, as it benefits everyone. If all else fails, then contraction is an option, but it should be very, very rare.


Last edited by Trottier: 12-02-2003 at 10:24 AM.
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Old
12-02-2003, 09:53 AM
  #6
Takeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
All that you say is true, but barely a mention of the fact that they are cash-poor. That is the root for all that is wrong with the team. Not directed at you Enoch, you know your stuff, but too many fans look at the on-ice product, or trades, etc. and conveniently gloss over the $$$ issues that are driving each franchise decision.
You should definetly direct it at him.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:06 AM
  #7
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75% of the Penguins would clear waivers with ease.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:09 AM
  #8
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartG101
75% of the Penguins would clear waivers with ease.
Can I get a break down of that number?

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:15 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartG101
75% of the Penguins would clear waivers with ease.
closer to 25%.....

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:25 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Why should I respect the Penguins. They have to be the worst team I have ever seen iced. THey make bad trades, bad mangerial decisions, and give the fans absolutely no reason to come to the games. So no.......I refuse to respect them. Mario made a respectable move by giving back his 5 million dollar raise, but he shouldn't have accepted it to begin with.
The Pens aren't any worse than the Hawks this year.

Can you imagine the strain this puts on Mario (and I'm not a Mario fan)? He converted his deferred salary into equity to become the majority owner of the Pens. But he isn't independantly wealthy like every other majority owner in the NHL. He doesn't have the "deep pockets" to absorb the losses the other owners are able to.

I agree the organization has done a bad job of drafting & developing talent. But there are SEVERAL organizations that are in that boat. It's unfortunate that the Pens are in the position of having to be perfect in personnel moves. They had to give Kovalev away because the Rangers were able to also take bad contracts like Wilson & Laukannen. Teams like the Leafs can afford to make bad calls on guys like Reichel and Erikson (or the Hawks with Karpotsev & Korolev), but the Pens can't.

The Pens are in self-preservation mode right now. I don't see how this ends up will for the team, or Pittsburgh. They apparently HAVE to have a new arena, and Mario's in no position to fund it. They are probably the lowest payroll team in the league, and certainly are if you exclude Mario. How will a $31M salary cap help the Pens?

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:26 AM
  #11
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"Respect can't be demanded...it must be earned."

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:34 AM
  #12
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I can't begrudge the Pens moves. They have no choice but to dump salary and take on some marginal prospects in return for Kovalev and Straka. At least Fata's been a pleasant surprise.

The only dumb move Patrick made was signing Kelly Buchberger. How this man continually gets his way onto an opening day roster is beyond me. If I hear about the "veteran presence" he brings to a team, I think I'll be sick. He never was much of a player, and now that he's old, he's not much of a fighter either.

I'm also curious as to why the prospects gotten from Washington in the Jagr deal haven't really been given a chance in Steeltown. Beech and Lupaschuk are playing quite well in Wilkes-Barre. I'd certainly take both over guys like Holzinger and Buchberger any day.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:40 AM
  #13
tom_servo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Orr's Knees
People will not respect the Pens until they stop throwing seasons and start putting NHL quality talent on the ice. Half the guys you listed would not make any other NHL team.
The can put anyone out there as they see fit. If you don't like it, tough.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:41 AM
  #14
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Av-merican -- Buchberger's here because he wears a Messier-style helmet. I've always wanted one of those on the Pens.

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Old
12-02-2003, 11:36 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican
The only dumb move Patrick made was signing Kelly Buchberger. How this man continually gets his way onto an opening day roster is beyond me. If I hear about the "veteran presence" he brings to a team, I think I'll be sick. He never was much of a player, and now that he's old, he's not much of a fighter either.
He wasn't much of a fighter when he was younger either.

What's strange about the Pens is that when the Sabres and Senators were in trouble last season, all you heard was the total support of the NHL, the league was doing everything it could to support and help until things got better. Now maybe I'm not hearing being from the West, but where is all that support now?

At this point the League is so focussed on the CBA to the exclusion of everything else that they have blinders on. A high salary cap won't help teams like the Pens. At least not in the short term. They ignore the injury epidemics, they ignore bad attendance and ratings. They seem to think that if they win the labour negotiations, everything will fix itself and there will be no problems.

So when that doesn't happen, does that mean we will finally be rid of the Wal-Mart Greeter of a commissioner we have? :mad: (While we're at it, let's boot Goodenow too.)

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:15 PM
  #16
DJ Spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
All that you say is true, but barely a mention of the fact that they are cash-poor. That is the root of all that is wrong with the team. Not directed at you Enoch, you know your stuff, but too many fans look at the on-ice product, or trades, etc. and conveniently gloss over the $$$ issues that are driving each franchise decision.

And, instead of trying to come up with possible economic solutions for resurrecting a once solid organization like the Pens, they casually say "They should fold!...Why should I care about another franchise, another city?"

Great!

That's the easy, myopic, approach. Seems to me that the desire of every owner, player and fan should be to ice 30 economically viable franchises, as it benefits everyone. If all else fails, then contraction is an option, but it should be very, very rare.
Glad to see someone other than Pens fans actually gives a crap.

An AHL team would logically not be able to compete in the NHL, correct? Besides a few lopsided games, the Penguins have competed this year. I'm sure fans of Atlanta, Boston, Detroit, and Ottawa among others can attest to this.

Another people that people can't get through their thick heads is that this team would still be one of the worst teams if they had back Jagr, Kovalev, Lang, Boughner and all of the guys they have traded away or let leave via free agency over the past few years. Simply put, getting that team together would be atrocious.

It's just a bunch of offensive forwards and two mediocre defensemen. The Penguins still wouldn't have a defense or goaltending. They still wouldn't be able to ice the type of team that wins in the NHL today.

They had a long playoff stretch, and now partly because of economics have had two or three down years. But they aren't just merely doing nothing, they're rebuilding.

Teams win in cycles, then they rebuild. It's how things work.

If you think they should be contracted, simply put, you're a moron.

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:44 PM
  #17
SuburbanRhythm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Why should I respect the Penguins. They have to be the worst team I have ever seen iced. THey make bad trades, bad mangerial decisions, and give the fans absolutely no reason to come to the games. So no.......I refuse to respect them. Mario made a respectable move by giving back his 5 million dollar raise, but he shouldn't have accepted it to begin with.
Worse than the Ottawa and San Jose teams of 1992-93? Either you are woefully incorrect in your assesment...or have only been watching hockey for 9 years max.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:06 PM
  #18
MLH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Can I get a break down of that number?
Would clear:

Mckenna
Holzinger
Buchberger
Boileau
Strbak
Focht
Caron
Melichar
Bradley
Kostopoulus
Bergevin
Berehowskey

Players that don't have to:

Malone
Fluery
Surovy
Orpik
Koltsov
Abid

Players that real NHL teams might actually have an interest in:

Eastwood
Kraft (?)
Tarnstrom
Fata
Morozov

So out of the 17 healthy waiver eligible players 12 IMO would clear. Im sorry 71% not 75%.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:19 PM
  #19
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as a 7th/8th dman i'd grab boilleau in a heartbeat ... last year when called up he did pretty damn well, surpassing both wallin and kuznetsov ( not that THAT's a hard feat to do but still ) he comes cheap and he was solid when called upon and seein as how we're playin rivers up at RW more often than on D

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:33 PM
  #20
Enoch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woobie82
Worse than the Ottawa and San Jose teams of 1992-93? Either you are woefully incorrect in your assesment...or have only been watching hockey for 9 years max.
Or I disagree, and think they are terrible.

Contrary to how my posts sound, the Penguins are one of my favorite teams. They are not my favorite team, but I have always enjoyed watching them play. However, I totally disagree with what management has done/is doing, and for that I do not respect them.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:37 PM
  #21
tom_servo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartG101
Would clear:

Mckenna
Holzinger
Buchberger
Boileau
Strbak
Focht
Caron
Melichar
Bradley
Kostopoulus
Bergevin
Berehowskey

Players that don't have to:

Malone
Fluery
Surovy
Orpik
Koltsov
Abid

Players that real NHL teams might actually have an interest in:

Eastwood
Kraft (?)
Tarnstrom
Fata
Morozov

So out of the 17 healthy waiver eligible players 12 IMO would clear. Im sorry 71% not 75%.
Uh, you said 75% of Penguins, not 75% of the waiver-eligible Penguins.

And Caron wouldn't clear.

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:06 PM
  #22
Munchausen
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...
Hey I'm completely off topic here, but that's one great avatar. Put a smile on my face after a rough day.

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:10 PM
  #23
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Hey I'm completely off topic here, but that's one great avatar. Put a smile on my face after a rough day.
I agree. That's the best one I've seen yet.

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