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Old
07-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
****ing Holmgren. I wonder if Weber would've signed our offersheet if Philly hadn't sent in theirs...
Er...why does that even matter? Nashville would have matched it.

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07-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #302
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The 1 year offer sheet was the only one that really had a chance of not being matched and for obvious reasons Weber wasn't interested in that. Gillis read the situation correctly.

Though I'm of the opinion that Weber wasn't really interested in coming to Vancouver anyway so it's probably all moot.

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07-24-2012, 03:08 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
What you don't have to wonder about is whether Nashville would have matched.
That would've been fine though - it would've meant Weber would be a UFA in a year's time. And we could've made a huge offer at that point without giving up assets.

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07-24-2012, 03:08 PM
  #304
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Because the only person who struck out here is Holmgrem? In a world without Holmgren, a team might have successfully pried Weber from the Preds this summer.

Gillis deserves some credit for reading the situation right.
The point is, no one has gained or lost anything. Holmgren tried and it didn't work. Big deal?

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07-24-2012, 03:09 PM
  #305
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Er...why does that even matter? Nashville would have matched it.
Because Weber would be a UFA a year from now.

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07-24-2012, 03:09 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Why does it have to be either, 1) Holmgren stupid, Gillis genius or 2) Holmgren genius, Gillis stupid?

Holmgren's offersheet was well thought out and it was worth a try. Gillis had a feeling it wouldn't work. Neither of these two GM's have lost or gained anything.. So why is either parties getting bashed/praised?

Both of them were smart for doing what they did/tried to do.
Who's actually saying this makes Gillis a genius? We just spent a week listening to many of our knee jerk reactionary fans calling him an idiot because he didn't go the offer sheet route, which he thought would only get matched so he figured the only way to get Weber would be as a UFA next year. Getting matched doesn't necessarily make Holmgren an idiot either, perhaps after talking to Weber he got the impression that Philly wasn't his preferred UFA destination, so the only way they could get him was to gamble and call Nashville's bluff that they could match.

Really the only idiots left here is our own lemming fans who started jumping off bridges as soon as the offer sheet was signed.

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
That would've been fine though - it would've meant Weber would be a UFA in a year's time. And we could've made a huge offer at that point without giving up assets.
Weber wouldn't have signed it; he was looking for a retirement contract.

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07-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
That would've been fine though - it would've meant Weber would be a UFA in a year's time. And we could've made a huge offer at that point without giving up assets.
Weber would've never considered a 1 year offer sheet given the expiring CBA.

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07-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #309
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Who's actually saying this makes Gillis a genius? We just spent a week listening to many of our knee jerk reactionary fans calling him an idiot because he didn't go the offer sheet route, which he thought would only get matched so he figured the only way to get Weber would be as a UFA next year. Getting matched doesn't necessarily make Holmgren an idiot either, perhaps after talking to Weber he got the impression that Philly wasn't his preferred UFA destination, so the only way they could get him was to gamble and call Nashville's bluff that they could match.

Really the only idiots left here is our own lemming fans who started jumping off bridges as soon as the offer sheet was signed.
I was using hyperbole that was equal to the insanely stupid reactions. Reading the last page of the Weber thread it was "Well, Holmgren is an idiot", "Well Gillis is pretty smart, I guess", and before the matching it was "Smart offer by Holmgren", " Gillis".

It's just something I noticed, there is never any in between on a subject/topic.

In the end, no one is worse/better. Though, you can argue that 29 other teams are losers.

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07-24-2012, 03:13 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Weber wouldn't have signed it; he was looking for a retirement contract.
But what if that retirement contract wasn't there (ie the Philly offersheet)?

This is my point.

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07-24-2012, 03:13 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Weber would've never considered a 1 year offer sheet given the expiring CBA.
We don't know that - especially if his only other option was another lowball 3 or 4 year deal from Poile. It's all moot now, but we can still play the what if game...

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07-24-2012, 03:14 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
But what if that retirement contract wasn't there (ie the Philly offersheet)?

This is my point.
Then he would've signed a retirement contract with Nashville, or New York, or one of the host of other teams who'd offer him the same.

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07-24-2012, 03:17 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
But what if that retirement contract wasn't there (ie the Philly offersheet)?

This is my point.
Yes, because I'm sure that Philly was the only one to offer him a retirement contract...it might have been the one with the most money, but not the only one.

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07-24-2012, 03:18 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Then he would've signed a retirement contract with Nashville, or New York, or one of the host of other teams who'd offer him the same.
I don't think Nashville offered him one or he would've signed with them previous to the Philly offersheet.

I doubt any other team would've offersheeted him one, as there was the idea that Nashville would match (despite not offering him one in the first place, they too may have been waiting for the new CBA) - which is why the Canucks didn't offer one.

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:19 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Yes, because I'm sure that Philly was the only one to offer him a retirement contract...it might have been the one with the most money, but not the only one.
The Canucks didn't offer him one, other teams may have felt the same way Gillis did.

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07-24-2012, 03:22 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
The Canucks didn't offer him one, other teams may have felt the same way Gillis did.
Then Weber would have probably reached an agreement with Nashville on a retirement contract if there were none floating out there. He would have never accepted the one-year offersheet due to CBA uncertainty.

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07-24-2012, 03:23 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Then Weber would have probably reached an agreement with Nashville on a retirement contract if there were none floating out there. He would have never accepted the one-year offersheet due to CBA uncertainty.
Possibly, we don't know that for sure though. Alternatively the 14M, with the potential for more signing bonuses next year, might be more appealing than whatever Nashville offered him (remember this is a team that offered him 4.5M last year).

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07-24-2012, 03:26 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Possibly, we don't know that for sure though. Alternatively the 14M, with the potential for more signing bonuses next year, might be more appealing than whatever Nashville offered him (remember this is a team that offered him 4.5M last year).
Well, we're playing the "what if" game, aren't we?

What if Weber didn't care where he was playing, and only wanted the retirement contract? (pretty strong what if, as many media outlets have speculated this)

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07-24-2012, 03:27 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
We don't know that - especially if his only other option was another lowball 3 or 4 year deal from Poile. It's all moot now, but we can still play the what if game...
On 1040 last night Gillis said something along the lines of Weber wanting to take advantage of the current financial situation. That pretty much rules out a 1 year offer sheet. With the next CBA looking worse for the players, it seems pretty clear that Weber wanted a contract under the current CBA, with long term.

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07-24-2012, 03:29 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Jevo View Post
On 1040 last night Gillis said something along the lines of Weber wanting to take advantage of the current financial situation. That pretty much rules out a 1 year offer sheet. With the next CBA looking worse for the players, it seems pretty clear that Weber wanted a contract under the current CBA, with long term.
I agree with you 100%, my point is that what if he wasn't offered that contract. Again, it's moot now and just serves as exercise in frustration so probably not worth pursuing.

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07-24-2012, 03:29 PM
  #321
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Darren DregerVerified ‏@DarrenDreger
Now that Nashville has matched, expect Titan Sports to ask for a no trade or modified no trade clause for Weber. Can't be traded for 1 year

Would there be any reason for Nashville to give him a (modified) NTC at this point?

[edit]
Once again Dreger's comments need clarification. First, he's surprised that Nashville matches. Then speculates that Weber and agent were surprised that Nashville matched. Now this.

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Re: adding a NTC to Weber deal. NHL's position is CBA dictates that cannot happen. The offer sheet is the contract; no changes allowed.


Last edited by CanucksOo: 07-24-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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07-24-2012, 03:30 PM
  #322
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I don't think Nashville offered him one or he would've signed with them previous to the Philly offersheet.

I doubt any other team would've offersheeted him one, as there was the idea that Nashville would match (despite not offering him one in the first place, they too may have been waiting for the new CBA) - which is why the Canucks didn't offer one.
Several teams hosted Weber in an effort to convince him to sign with them. If none of those teams had any inclination to offer him a contract why were they wasting everyone's time by trying to woo him?

Teams were trying to convince Weber to accept their offers, not the other way around. He had plenty of suitors and could've easily gotten a suitable contract even if Philadelphia was out of the picture.

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:32 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Several teams hosted Weber in an effort to convince him to sign with them. If none of those teams had any inclination to offer him a contract why were they wasting everyone's time by trying to woo him?

Teams were trying to convince Weber to accept their offers, not the other way around. He had plenty of suitors and could've easily gotten a suitable contract even if Philadelphia was out of the picture.
We gave him a tour, and then (reportedly) offered him a 1 year deal. It's not a given that he would've been offered a retirement contract by another team - they also may have decided a 1 year-deal would be the best route, as even if Nashville matched there he would be a UFA in a year's time.

He toured, what - maybe 6 teams? With two of those teams being Vancouver and Philadelphia. So maybe the other 4 thought like Philly, maybe they thought like Vancouver. We know for certain that Philadelphia destroyed any possibility of a 1 year deal.

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07-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksOo View Post
Darren DregerVerified ‏@DarrenDreger
Now that Nashville has matched, expect Titan Sports to ask for a no trade or modified no trade clause for Weber. Can't be traded for 1 year

Would there be any reason for Nashville to give him a (modified) NTC at this point?

[nevermind] Once again Dreger get's clarified. First, he's surprised that Nashville matches. Then speculates that Weber and agent were surprised that Nashville matched. Now this.

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Re: adding a NTC to Weber deal. NHL's position is CBA dictates that cannot happen. The offer sheet is the contract; no changes allowed.
Weber could hold out and not play this year. Thus, Nashville has to pay $27 million to him for nothing. It's a weird situation because I don't think Weber wants to play in Nashville. If they trade him next year, one thing is for sure though...he ain't going to Philly.

And I doubt Weber DIDN'T want to play for Vancouver, just that the number of years was a bigger factor than his dream destination.

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07-24-2012, 03:38 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
We gave him a tour, and then (reportedly) offered him a 1 year deal. It's not a given that he would've been offered a retirement contract by another team - they also may have decided a 1 year-deal would be the best route, as even if Nashville matched there he would be a UFA in a year's time.

He toured, what - maybe 6 teams? With two of those teams being Vancouver and Philadelphia. So maybe the other 4 thought like Philly, maybe they thought like Vancouver.
New York was apparently prepared to offer him a contract but he rebuffed them and it sounds like the Canucks went through a similar thing as they never actually presented him with a contract offer.

Even if he had no other interested teams he still could've gotten a long term deal out of the Predators. Nashville was offering Suter a similar deal to the one he got in Minnesota so it's pretty obvious that Weber could've gotten something along those lines. It wouldn't have been nearly as front loaded as his current contract is, but the end result would've been the same; a 10+ year big money deal.

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