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Old
07-24-2012, 04:40 PM
  #326
Lard_Lad
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So if capgeek's right, Weber gets $27m in cash (base + guaranteed bonus) in each of the next four years, and $20m in the following two.

Even before this, Nashville's owners have had to put average of $20m a year of their own money into the team over the last five years (although that's been improving), and the city kicks in several million more. Unless the CBA makes some really major adjustments, they're going to be bleeding badly for the next half-decade.

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07-24-2012, 04:41 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Jevo View Post
On 1040 last night Gillis said something along the lines of Weber wanting to take advantage of the current financial situation. That pretty much rules out a 1 year offer sheet. With the next CBA looking worse for the players, it seems pretty clear that Weber wanted a contract under the current CBA, with long term.
Unless no one offered Weber a long-term deal...

The stupidity of the signing just boggles my mind. Nashville is the only party that make out like bandits, except for the hilarious $26 mil in 12 months which basically just means they will be right right at wherever the cap floor is.

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07-24-2012, 04:44 PM
  #328
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Gotta think the Flyers knew that Nashville would match and just did so no one else could acquire him. Frustrating.

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07-24-2012, 04:45 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
So if capgeek's right, Weber gets $27m in cash (base + guaranteed bonus) in each of the next four years, and $20m in the following two.

Even before this, Nashville's owners have had to put average of $20m a year of their own money into the team over the last five years (although that's been improving), and the city kicks in several million more. Unless the CBA makes some really major adjustments, they're going to be bleeding badly for the next half-decade.
You are reading capgeek wrong. Signing bonusses are included in "NHL salary". So it's a $13 million at once payment when the contract is signed, and then $1 million spread out over the season as regular salary, for the first year. In the following years I think the signing bonus is payed on July 1st.

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07-24-2012, 04:45 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
So if capgeek's right, Weber gets $27m in cash (base + guaranteed bonus) in each of the next four years, and $20m in the following two.

Even before this, Nashville's owners have had to put average of $20m a year of their own money into the team over the last five years (although that's been improving), and the city kicks in several million more. Unless the CBA makes some really major adjustments, they're going to be bleeding badly for the next half-decade.
Here's how it's structured (the signing bonus is counted as part of his salary on CapGeek):

Year 1: $13M bonus; $1M salary

Year 2: $13M bonus; $1M salary

Year 3: $13M bonus; $1M salary

Year 4: $13M bonus; $1M salary

Year 5: $8M bonus; $4M salary

Year 6: $8M bonus; $4M salary

Year 7: $6M salary

Year 8: $6M salary

Year 9: $6M salary

Year 10: $6M salary

Year 11: $3M salary

Year 12: $1M salary

Year 13: $1M salary

Year 14: $1M salary

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Old
07-24-2012, 04:48 PM
  #331
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New York was apparently prepared to offer him a contract but he rebuffed them and it sounds like the Canucks went through a similar thing as they never actually presented him with a contract offer.
Sounds like he rebuffed a 1 year-deal, as he wanted a retirement deal.

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Even if he had no other interested teams he still could've gotten a long term deal out of the Predators. Nashville was offering Suter a similar deal to the one he got in Minnesota so it's pretty obvious that Weber could've gotten something along those lines. It wouldn't have been nearly as front loaded as his current contract is, but the end result would've been the same; a 10+ year big money deal.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Again, maybe he was lowballed (even if the term was long) like he was last year. Guess we'll never find out.

We just don't know what would've happened if Philly hadn't offersheeted him, I personally don't think it's a given that another team would've given him a retirement contract and/or that he would've signed with Nashville. The only certainty in all of this is that the Flyers offer prevented a potential 1 year-offersheet from being realized.

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Old
07-24-2012, 04:51 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Gotta think the Flyers knew that Nashville would match and just did so no one else could acquire him. Frustrating.
They also made it so they can't acquire him and despite the porous Canucks D in the playoffs the Flyers was worse...

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07-24-2012, 04:51 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Jevo View Post
You are reading capgeek wrong. Signing bonusses are included in "NHL salary". So it's a $13 million at once payment when the contract is signed, and then $1 million spread out over the season as regular salary, for the first year. In the following years I think the signing bonus is payed on July 1st.
Yeah, I see that now. So the media had that massive $20+m first-year salary wrong. It's still not great for them, but not as bad as it looked.

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Old
07-24-2012, 04:54 PM
  #334
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Gotta think the Flyers knew that Nashville would match and just did so no one else could acquire him. Frustrating.
Nah. It was a predatory move on Holmgren's part, plain and simple. He gambled that if he made his OS massive enough, Nashville simply wouldn't have the money to match. I was wondering if they did, myself. In the end, Nashville made the only choice they could. 4 1st round picks is a pitiful return for Weber especially considering those picks would almost certainly be in the low end of the round, and it would have really sent interest in NHL hockey in Nashville plummeting off a cliff if their fans watched Suter, Weber and Radulov all bugger off in the same offseason with only an extra draft pick in the next 4 drafts coming back their way. IMHO, it would have sent a clear message that the Preds are still a small money feeder team for the big boys. Now Weber's a Predator for life. Dammit. Oh well, at least we know Gillis read the situation right and not even an offer sheet the size of Liberia's national debt could pry Weber out of Nashville.

And I can't believe people are saying Weber wants out just because he signed the OS. Seriously, that's $110 million dollars. Look at that number. What would you do for $110 million? I look at the list I mentally draw up, and "play hockey in a different city" is nowhere near the top of the list. Weber's not made of stone, guys.

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07-24-2012, 04:56 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
Yeah, I see that now. So the media had that massive $20+m first-year salary wrong. It's still not great for them, but not as bad as it looked.
I think the thing was that in 12 months and a day, Weber gets $27 million. So not one fiscal year for the books, but virtually one real year.


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They're talking about a 340 or so day span (from now until next July 1st) where he'll pocket $27 million. So in the next year he'll make that much, but the payments are technically spread out over the 2 seasons.

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07-24-2012, 04:56 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
Yeah, I see that now. So the media had that massive $20+m first-year salary wrong. It's still not great for them, but not as bad as it looked.
They're talking about a 340 or so day span (from now until next July 1st) where he'll pocket $27 million. So in the next year he'll make that much, but the payments are technically spread out over the 2 seasons.

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07-24-2012, 05:09 PM
  #337
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I knew Nashville would match. Good job Gillis never doubted you for a second bro.

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Old
07-24-2012, 05:12 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
They're talking about a 340 or so day span (from now until next July 1st) where he'll pocket $27 million. So in the next year he'll make that much, but the payments are technically spread out over the 2 seasons.
I guess it makes sense to include it, since they don't have a way out of the second payment because they can't trade him before July 24 of next year. Seems like something the small-market teams should be going after in the negotiations, take away that poison-pill option by changing the date the trade restriction ends (or just turning it from an outright restriction into a single-year NTC for the player.)

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07-24-2012, 05:13 PM
  #339
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I disagree. It was pretty obvious he wanted to get paid prior to lifetime contracts being abolished with the new CBA.
Key wasn't the term, it's the fact that this contract on a small market team with the front loaded salary was an indication that there was a chance that NSH wouldn't be able to afford him since there is a lockout looming. 14 million is tough to bite for a small market team.

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Just like Sakic, Kesler, Ohlund, and Backes wanted out?

If Weber wanted to cut ties with the Predators he made about the stupidest possible decision he could have in signing an offer sheet. Why would you give a team you didn't want to play for the option to match your contract and be tied to them for 14 years without any kind of NMC/NTC?
Quite obvious that NSH during contract negotiations weren't willing to laydown the term he wanted isn't it? Why should a player sign a contract? NSH obviously wanted make an offer that perhaps wasn't as long in term. However, when Philly pushes their weight around like they did it was a great effort. When I first thought about it, I thought that NSH wouldn't be able to match simply because they're a small market team. I think the NMC and NTC was a hiccup on the Flyers and Agent's part though because they're asking for it now. Who knows.

None of those offer sheets were for 14 years let alone with a whopping 26 million front loaded to a small market franchise. This contract could have been structured so he is still paid the same amount with the same cap hit but without all the bonuses at the beginning of the contract no? Shea knew exactly what he was doing and good on the Preds for showing the commitment because if he left, the Preds would have massive issues selling tickets.

Yes I know the 26 million is over two seasons, but if this lockout happens and it's another year gone...that could spell financial trouble for the owners. Obviously that they matched they don't think it'll be an issue. So it took an offersheet for the NSH to finally give into the term? Kind of commitment is that to a player let alone your franchise player?

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Then why did he sign an offersheet knowing that the Preds could (and did) match? That seems like a person who wanted a certain dollar and term amount rather than someone who desperately wanted to leave Nashville. I would think that he would have demanded a trade if he wanted out that badly.
How do you know that he knew they would match? Because if you're in the mind of Shea Weber, please enlighten me.

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07-24-2012, 05:22 PM
  #340
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OS matched and the alarmists vanish. This approach by PHI created quite the hyteria on this board. Good to know MG had it pegged from the start.

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07-24-2012, 05:41 PM
  #341
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OS matched and the alarmists vanish. This approach by PHI created quite the hyteria on this board. Good to know MG had it pegged from the start.
Agree 100%. The posters that used the Weber offer sheet as an opportunity to bash Gillis look pretty shallow right now.

The other thing, I believe, is that we may not see too many more offer sheets on RFAs for a while. If a team like Nashville will match a predatory offer like this, then it is pretty clear that NHL teams will protect their big time assets.

Hommer thoughthe could low ball Poile and steal Weber. Tough.

We may still get Weber next year, but it won't be for free.

Think I'll drift over to the main boards where the crow buffett should be in full swing.

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07-24-2012, 05:44 PM
  #342
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Gotta think the Flyers knew that Nashville would match and just did so no one else could acquire him. Frustrating.
That and the fact that other teams can't get Weber for nothing (via UFA). Trading for a player like Weber will/can hurt a team.

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07-24-2012, 05:54 PM
  #343
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Nvm-


Last edited by whoshouse: 07-24-2012 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Edit - nvm just got it
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07-24-2012, 05:58 PM
  #344
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Sorry if this has been asked, but does anyone know if Nashville has to honor a NTC in Weber's contract?
No NTC for Weber unless Nashville chose to give him one.

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Old
07-24-2012, 06:06 PM
  #345
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http://brianburkesucks.com/

Found this little gem on the Leafs' board.

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07-24-2012, 06:08 PM
  #346
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No NTC for Weber unless Nashville chose to give him one.
..and I can't think of many reasons for them to do that. Especially if they do wish to rebuild...Weber will command a hell of package at that term and cap hit.

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07-24-2012, 06:19 PM
  #347
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No NTC for Weber unless Nashville chose to give him one.
pretty sure they can't add or subtract anything from the offer sheet, they just have to accept it as is or take the compensation. this is a good thing for them, as if the ever feel the need to move him they can ship him off to wherever and he has nothing to say about it.

[edit]and friedman nukes this logic before i'd even written it. still don't think nashville should give him a ntc. like giving a treat to a dog that just **** on your carpet.


Last edited by mrbitterguy: 07-24-2012 at 07:32 PM. Reason: i need to read the cba myself not believe stuff on twitter.
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Old
07-24-2012, 06:36 PM
  #348
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pretty sure they can't add or subtract anything from the offer sheet, they just have to accept it as is or take the compensation. this is a good thing for them, as if the ever feel the need to move him they can ship him off to wherever and he has nothing to say about it.
According to Friedman, it seems like they can add a NTC if both parties agree to it. I just can't think of a reason for Nashville to agree to it.

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Weber agent Kevin Epp said adding a NTC will be discussed w/NSH tomorrow...both sides have to agree.

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07-24-2012, 06:40 PM
  #349
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pretty sure they can't add or subtract anything from the offer sheet, they just have to accept it as is or take the compensation. this is a good thing for them, as if the ever feel the need to move him they can ship him off to wherever and he has nothing to say about it.
NMC/NTCs on offer sheets are not required to be matched, but they can be if the team and player agree to. Nashville is only required to match the "Principle Terms" which is the monetary structure of the contract. Any other details like NTCs are separate and are not required. Weber can still ask for one, but Nashville really has all the leverage here.

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07-24-2012, 06:47 PM
  #350
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So if capgeek's right, Weber gets $27m in cash (base + guaranteed bonus) in each of the next four years, and $20m in the following two.

Even before this, Nashville's owners have had to put average of $20m a year of their own money into the team over the last five years (although that's been improving), and the city kicks in several million more. Unless the CBA makes some really major adjustments, they're going to be bleeding badly for the next half-decade.
City might be reluctant to "kick in" money to a owner(s) that has money in the future. 'Things are tough all over' and I would think the taxpayers in Nashville might take a dim view of giving millions of dollars to a owner who can easily afford to pay that money out of their own pockout.

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