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Free Agency 2012 Part #2

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Old
07-24-2012, 02:49 PM
  #926
Sydor25
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Thought they would match on Monday, missed it by a day.

I'm sure Flyers fans are saying that they didn't want him anyways and they just blocked his trade to the Penguins.

Some many of the Flyers fans thought Nashville couldn't match the offer.

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07-24-2012, 02:51 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Thought they would match on Monday, missed it by a day.

I'm sure Flyers fans are saying that they didn't want him anyways and they just blocked his trade to the Penguins.

Some many of the Flyers fans thought Nashville couldn't match the offer.
We'll see how things play out. I didn't believe Nashville had the finances to match this contract, and still don't. We'll see how competitive of a team they ice with such an albatross for the next couple of seasons.

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07-24-2012, 04:29 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
We'll see how things play out. I didn't believe Nashville had the finances to match this contract, and still don't. We'll see how competitive of a team they ice with such an albatross for the next couple of seasons.
It is a hard first 6 years for sure, but if they can get over that hurdle it is a very easy next 8.
But I really don't think they had a choice they had to match it. What will be interesting it what this does to the CBA talks when 2 small market teams have managed to pay big contracts that are heavily front loaded. One while just a few months earlier claiming poverty. Fehr is already considered a master negotiator without giving him a weapon like this.

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07-24-2012, 04:49 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
We'll see how things play out. I didn't believe Nashville had the finances to match this contract, and still don't. We'll see how competitive of a team they ice with such an albatross for the next couple of seasons.
didnt you say holmgren was a genius for offering this contract, now the contract is an albatross.

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07-24-2012, 04:55 PM
  #930
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In hindsight, I bet Poile wished he had made the trade with the flyers, prior to Holmer throwing out an offer sheet.

Wonder which players were involved in the trade talk...

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07-24-2012, 05:00 PM
  #931
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In hindsight, I bet Poile wished he had made the trade with the flyers, prior to Holmer throwing out an offer sheet.

Wonder which players were involved in the trade talk...
poile wanted schenn couturier +. if philly offered less i dont blame him for not trading.

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07-24-2012, 05:04 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
poile wanted schenn couturier +. if philly offered less i dont blame him for not trading.
I doubt Homer would have traded Schenn, especially after acquiring his older brother.

If I had to take a guess, Homer probably offered Couturier, Read/Voracek plus.

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07-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #933
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Poile was right sticking to his guns. I mean it sucks that ownership probably can't pay all of that, but he gave Philly the finger and is going to make them wait it out for a year.

Make Holmgren come back in a year and offer up the Schenn's for him.

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07-24-2012, 05:26 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Poile was right sticking to his guns. I mean it sucks that ownership probably can't pay all of that, but he gave Philly the finger and is going to make them wait it out for a year.

Make Holmgren come back in a year and offer up the Schenn's for him.
They don't match to just have him one year. He is now a Pred for life unless they run into financial trouble. And the hardest hurdle financially is the first year where 27m is paid by next July 1. After that it becomes much easier.

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07-24-2012, 05:52 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
They don't match to just have him one year. He is now a Pred for life unless they run into financial trouble. And the hardest hurdle financially is the first year where 27m is paid by next July 1. After that it becomes much easier.
Playing Devil's advocate here, maybe they decide wow, we really didn't want to match, but hell, 4 late 1st's wouldn't have been fair value. So they match. Maybe there's another lockout, and they'll have paid him some ungodly number with no revenues coming in to offset his contract? Maybe there's bad blood, maybe the don't want the rest of that contract hanging over their heads? After a year they can deal him. Weber would have what, 1/4, 1/5 of the contract paid off already? Nashville could trade him to basically any team that wanted him and they could get a Kings ransom for him. Other teams would offer through the nose for Weber knowing that A) he's locked up long term, and B) knowing that a major chunk of his contract was paid off already.

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07-24-2012, 06:09 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Nashville could trade him to basically any team that wanted him and they could get a Kings ransom for him. Other teams would offer through the nose for Weber knowing that A) he's locked up long term, and B) knowing that a major chunk of his contract was paid off already.
Well, if that does happen, I hope they trade him to Pittsburgh

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07-24-2012, 06:13 PM
  #937
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didnt you say holmgren was a genius for offering this contract, now the contract is an albatross.
No, way to put words in my mouth, though.

I said it was a great gamble because Nashville ownership would have trouble matching. In that sense, yes, I felt the contract was genius, for Philadelphia, which has ownership with an infinity symbol next to their checking account.

For a smaller market team like Nashville, with far less resources, yes, the contract COULD be a major albatross.

But I didn't think Nashville would be able to match, I was confident in that, and it looks like I was wrong. My crow tastes bitter.

The real question from here is how financially strapped Nashville becomes over the next few years, and how that affects their on ice product. Also consider that nearly every professional athlete slacks a little after signing a monstrous contract, so a dip in Weber's play next season must be considered, as well.

Risky move for Nashville to match. I know a lot of you see it differently, but I feel it's a risky move. Poile was clearly thinking a retool/rebuild was necessary for the team after Suter left, hence his shopping of Weber over the last few weeks. Going forward, Poile must believe that a cash strapped Nashville with Weber is a better option than a Nashville with a lot of financial breathing room, a ton of assets in return for Weber, and a retooling. I disagree, but I'm just a dumb message board poster, and Poile is the general manager of a professional hockey team.

Also consider that, if the reports are true, Poile was trying to negotiate superior offer sheet compensation with Holmgren over the past few days, indicating his first reaction was not to match. Holmgren wouldn't budge on certain players (Schenn, Couterier), so Poile had no choice but to match.

This all points to Poile feeling his team would have been better moving forward without Weber on a monster contract, and with the assets received in return. He couldn't get what he wanted, so he resigned to plan B, keeping Weber on a monster contract and sorting through the financial ruin afterward.

Like I said in my initial post, we'll see what happens.

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07-24-2012, 06:15 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
I doubt Homer would have traded Schenn, especially after acquiring his older brother.

If I had to take a guess, Homer probably offered Couturier, Read/Voracek plus.
They offered, Read, Mezaros, 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

NO way they're offering Couturier, he's untouchable.

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07-24-2012, 06:28 PM
  #939
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Couterier is their most important player behind Giroux imo, because he is the perfect future 2nd line centre behind Giroux, going to be a nasty combo when you send out Giroux to score lots of points, then Couterier to matchup and shutdown top lines. He is already their best defensive forward

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07-24-2012, 06:57 PM
  #940
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I don't think this is as painful for Nashville as people think. They have a solid average ticket price and good attendance. They probably bring in a couple million less in gate than the Kings, but their payroll is way lower. It's not like no one shows up and they are giving tickets away.

Finances are very guarded in the NHL, it's hard to get any good data. There was one newspaper saying the Preds were bleeding money and had lost 60M over 5 years, but the team stated they turned a profit (albeit small) in 2008-09 and 09-10. I have no idea who to believe.

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07-24-2012, 07:19 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by SCARFACE909 View Post
They offered, Read, Mezaros, 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

NO way they're offering Couturier, he's untouchable.
Read is a late bloomer, Mezaros isn't that good, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are likely later picks in those rounds.

NO way Poile should have accepted that offer.

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07-24-2012, 07:47 PM
  #942
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Nashville pretty much had to match it. It's one thing to trade him prior to the offer sheet, it's another to lose him for draft picks. The Preds are just a farm team at that point, and why bother being in the NHL if that's the case.

Now they have a world class goalie, still have one(which is more than most teams) world class defenseman, and an overall team that has been to the 2nd round the last two years. If they can bring in one of those late summer value type free agents, someone that clearly won't replace Suter, but can help mitigate the loss of Suter in some area, that's still a solid playoff team.

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07-24-2012, 07:55 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Nashville pretty much had to match it. It's one thing to trade him prior to the offer sheet, it's another to lose him for draft picks. The Preds are just a farm team at that point, and why bother being in the NHL if that's the case.

Now they have a world class goalie, still have one(which is more than most teams) world class defenseman, and an overall team that has been to the 2nd round the last two years. If they can bring in one of those late summer value type free agents, someone that clearly won't replace Suter, but can help mitigate the loss of Suter in some area, that's still a solid playoff team.
Exactly right.

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07-24-2012, 07:57 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
I doubt Homer would have traded Schenn, especially after acquiring his older brother.

If I had to take a guess, Homer probably offered Couturier, Read/Voracek plus.
You realize this is Homer we are talking about?? Like a guys brother is gonna prevent him from making a move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCARFACE909 View Post
They offered, Read, Mezaros, 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

NO way they're offering Couturier, he's untouchable.
LOL how sad is it that Couturier is untouchable (or that you think he is)....he is completely becoming the most overhyped player in the league. His upside is Kopi...at best. Calling him untouchable for arguably the best defesemen in the league at this point is laughable... Good thing the Kings didn't think that way Schenn for a player with arguable less value in Richards....

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07-24-2012, 08:17 PM
  #945
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Anyone else laughing that Weber's agent wants Nashville to add a NMC to the offer sheet. Gotta love agents.

Why would Nashville want to be stuck with a Nash situation in a few years? If weber demands a trade in a few years, Nashville doesn't want to limit their choices.

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07-24-2012, 08:33 PM
  #946
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Anyone else laughing that Weber's agent wants Nashville to add a NMC to the offer sheet. Gotta love agents.

Why would Nashville want to be stuck with a Nash situation in a few years? If weber demands a trade in a few years, Nashville doesn't want to limit their choices.
It is not shocking at all since the agent mentioned it in one of his radio interviews that it had been discussed with Philly. It just that they would have to submit an addendum in order to get it. So trying to it with Nashville would seem likely. However them giving it to him is another question all together.

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07-24-2012, 08:40 PM
  #947
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Mez and Read plus picks is not a good offer for the best in the league. If the Flyers wanted Weber, at the very least Couturier should be going to Nashville.

Although, Holmgren has a history of killing the Predators in trades. Taking Timonen and Hartnell's rights for a first round pick. Trading broken down forsberg for Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall, and a first (which is what they traded back for Hartnell and Timonen). He probably thought he could do fleece them again.

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07-24-2012, 08:56 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Anyone else laughing that Weber's agent wants Nashville to add a NMC to the offer sheet. Gotta love agents.

Why would Nashville want to be stuck with a Nash situation in a few years? If weber demands a trade in a few years, Nashville doesn't want to limit their choices.
If I was Poile I wouldn't even take this guy's calls about anything regarding Weber.

Poile should just say, "See ya in 14 years." CLICK

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07-24-2012, 09:16 PM
  #949
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No, way to put words in my mouth, though.

I said it was a great gamble because Nashville ownership would have trouble matching. In that sense, yes, I felt the contract was genius, for Philadelphia, which has ownership with an infinity symbol next to their checking account.

For a smaller market team like Nashville, with far less resources, yes, the contract COULD be a major albatross.

But I didn't think Nashville would be able to match, I was confident in that, and it looks like I was wrong. My crow tastes bitter.

The real question from here is how financially strapped Nashville becomes over the next few years, and how that affects their on ice product. Also consider that nearly every professional athlete slacks a little after signing a monstrous contract, so a dip in Weber's play next season must be considered, as well.

Risky move for Nashville to match. I know a lot of you see it differently, but I feel it's a risky move. Poile was clearly thinking a retool/rebuild was necessary for the team after Suter left, hence his shopping of Weber over the last few weeks. Going forward, Poile must believe that a cash strapped Nashville with Weber is a better option than a Nashville with a lot of financial breathing room, a ton of assets in return for Weber, and a retooling. I disagree, but I'm just a dumb message board poster, and Poile is the general manager of a professional hockey team.

Also consider that, if the reports are true, Poile was trying to negotiate superior offer sheet compensation with Holmgren over the past few days, indicating his first reaction was not to match. Holmgren wouldn't budge on certain players (Schenn, Couterier), so Poile had no choice but to match.

This all points to Poile feeling his team would have been better moving forward without Weber on a monster contract, and with the assets received in return. He couldn't get what he wanted, so he resigned to plan B, keeping Weber on a monster contract and sorting through the financial ruin afterward.

Like I said in my initial post, we'll see what happens.
I think it was a idiotic gamble. It's known that Nashville had proposals out for both Suter and Parise which would have obviously had to have included front-loaded money yet you think they couldn't match Weber? All this did was make sure that Weber would be a Predator this year. Holmgren has zero patience and instead of trying to work-out a reasonable trade (the Read, Mez, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd proposal is insulting), he jumped the gun and more than likely lost Weber forever. Being aggressive isn't always the smartest thing to do.


Last edited by ScoreZeGoals: 07-24-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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07-24-2012, 09:23 PM
  #950
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signing the best defenseman to market value is an albatross? letting him go for nothing or taking that joke of an offer from philly, is an albatross.

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