HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Potential HHOFers born 1975-1979

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-23-2012, 12:09 AM
  #76
Czech Your Math
Registered User
 
Czech Your Math's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 4,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
A borderline HHOFer like Alfredsson is someone who I have my reservations with and yet he still beats Elias overall without even needing to think hard.
I see Alfie, Elias and Hossa as being very close. So Alfie was a long-time captain of a Sens franchise that has underachieved in the playoffs... and that puts him clearly ahead of Elias? Yes, Alfie has a higher PPG in playoffs, but not until last year when Elias was more of a peripheral piece during a long run. I don't see how they can induct Alfie and not Elias. If they close the door on all three, that would be a real statement that they're setting the bar much higher for this group, which contains much more total talent than in the past.

Czech Your Math is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 08:23 AM
  #77
tony d
Whatareyousmiling at
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,256
vCash: 500
Let me try this:

Definites from 1975: Marty St.Louis
Definites from 1976: None
Definites from 1977: Jarome Iginla, Zdeno Chara
Definites from 1978: Pavel Datsyuk
Definites from 1979: Joe Thornton, Roberto Luongo

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 01:33 PM
  #78
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Anderson 4th all-time in playoff points is just impossible to overlook. A money player wherever he went, 6 Cups, never a passenger on those teams. Lemaire was very, very important in 8 Cup wins for Montreal not to mention doing at least as much as Elias has done in the regular season in just 12 seasons. No one argues Lemaire. Many would argue Elias.
Elias is closer to Lemaire than Anderson by quite a bit.

Anderson was a passenger in New york and was never a leader on those Oiler teams as well, a complimentary guy who took full advantage and scored big in the playoffs. Lots of warts on his regular season resume and he took a long time to get in because of it.

The big shiny object of playoff totals takes many eyes off what he really was, a guy who often went through the motions and was never a "star" in any real sense of the word but depended on others for his scoring exploits.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 02:45 PM
  #79
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You're right, Phil. After Stevens and Niedermayer left NJ, Elias accomplished about as much in the playoffs as Sittler did when he did have Borje Salming playing with him.
Sittler had some nice runs in the postseason. It isn't as if the Leafs lost to rotten teams those years. They lost to Cup winners/finalists. I've said before Sittler's playoff resume is good enough and is not something that holds him back even if it doesn't elevate his status.

Quote:
What is "around here?" Your insular group of fans of the Leafs and Canadian Hockey? Because on the HOH board, it sure looks like opinion is quite mixed.
I never see a whole lot of support for him on here as if it would be a snub to not induct him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Elias is closer to Lemaire than Anderson by quite a bit.

Anderson was a passenger in New york and was never a leader on those Oiler teams as well, a complimentary guy who took full advantage and scored big in the playoffs. Lots of warts on his regular season resume and he took a long time to get in because of it.

The big shiny object of playoff totals takes many eyes off what he really was, a guy who often went through the motions and was never a "star" in any real sense of the word but depended on others for his scoring exploits.
To be fair Anderson isn't the only HHOF player that would have taken a back seat to Gretzky, Messier, Kurri and even Coffey while he was there. 4 players have more playoff game winning goals than him so I don't think he was just along for the ride. A direct staple of that dynasty. Impossible to mention the Oilers success without him. Arguably scored the biggest goal in Oilers history in 1987. Anderson took as long as he did to get in because of his off-ice actions. It isn't said out loud, but the same could have been said for Gilmour.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 02:50 PM
  #80
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
I see Alfie, Elias and Hossa as being very close. So Alfie was a long-time captain of a Sens franchise that has underachieved in the playoffs... and that puts him clearly ahead of Elias? Yes, Alfie has a higher PPG in playoffs, but not until last year when Elias was more of a peripheral piece during a long run. I don't see how they can induct Alfie and not Elias. If they close the door on all three, that would be a real statement that they're setting the bar much higher for this group, which contains much more total talent than in the past.
Too much regular season success from Alfie to put Elias alongside him. Out of the three you mentioned Hossa is the youngest and looks to have some years left in him. Hard to imagine Hossa won't be regarded higher than Elias if he isn't already.

I've said it before on this thread, Elias looks to be the exception to the "best forward on an oh so close dynasty". He lags behind the other best forwards of his time who were winners. Yzerman, Fedorov, Forsberg, Sakic and Modano all have significantly better careers. That is my feeling looking at his career and for what its worth Elias has always failed the gut check in my mind. He won't be the only "exception to the rule" in the near future. There has never been a player with 5 all-star team selections to be denied the HHOF. But Kariya and Leclair had 5 each and I don't think there are many, if any, on here who would induct them both.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 03:11 PM
  #81
Czech Your Math
Registered User
 
Czech Your Math's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 4,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Too much regular season success from Alfie to put Elias alongside him. Out of the three you mentioned Hossa is the youngest and looks to have some years left in him. Hard to imagine Hossa won't be regarded higher than Elias if he isn't already.
In what respect? Alfie is more than 3 years older than Elias, and has 55 more goals and 188 more points. Elias has 47 goals and 140 points the last two years, so I don't see that as insurmountable. Alfie has a 2nd AS, Elias a 1st AS. Alfie's best finishes were 9th in goals and 4th in points, while Elias' best were 4th in goals and 3rd in points. Sure, if Elias retires after next season, Alfie will have the longevity (aka compiler) edge on Elias. But where is this clear regular season edge for Alfredsson? I just don't see it.

Hossa may have the most talent and will probably end up with the best totals, but I'm not sure how much better his chances will be.

Czech Your Math is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 03:31 PM
  #82
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
In what respect? Alfie is more than 3 years older than Elias, and has 55 more goals and 188 more points. Elias has 47 goals and 140 points the last two years, so I don't see that as insurmountable. Alfie has a 2nd AS, Elias a 1st AS. Alfie's best finishes were 9th in goals and 4th in points, while Elias' best were 4th in goals and 3rd in points. Sure, if Elias retires after next season, Alfie will have the longevity (aka compiler) edge on Elias. But where is this clear regular season edge for Alfredsson? I just don't see it.

Hossa may have the most talent and will probably end up with the best totals, but I'm not sure how much better his chances will be.
Alfie has the clear advantage in PPG (0.96 to 0.86). He also has the advantage in scoring race finishes:

Alfredsson - 4, 7, 9, 15, 17, 19
Elias - 3, 6, 10, 20

All the while being better defensively and being the more central focus of his team. Hard to imagine Elias doing anything from now that will elevate him higher. Alfredsson too is going to continue to play and the surgery with Elias might hurt him combined with his age. And also, there has been more consistency with Alfredsson.

Points in the 2000s:
Thornton - 794
Jagr - 737
Iginla - 718
Alfie - 711
...........
..........
.......
11th Elias - 614

That being said I can still make a good case that Alfredsson does NOT belong in the HHOF. I just don't think Elias will ever make the cut.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2012, 04:39 PM
  #83
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 29,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
But I guess he falls short in the most important category - playing for the Maple Leafs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
What is "around here?" Your insular group of fans of the Leafs and Canadian Hockey?
.... I guess I could be a Smartass & say, "ya, thats Right Neophyte", but I wouldnt/wont. In
my book, Elias should be inducted. Great two way player. A real throwback to the Golden Era's best.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 12:08 PM
  #84
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Let me try this:

Definites from 1975: Marty St.Louis
Definites from 1976: None
Definites from 1977: Jarome Iginla, Zdeno Chara
Definites from 1978: Pavel Datsyuk
Definites from 1979: Joe Thornton, Roberto Luongo
Luongo is not a "definite" yet. He hasn't surpassed Cujo yet, and Cujo hasn't gotten in.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 04:41 PM
  #85
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 29,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Luongo is not a "definite" yet. He hasn't surpassed Cujo yet, and Cujo hasn't gotten in.
... I missed that post. OP had him tucked & away and almost hidden in behind Thornton. And no, no way does he get inducted. Not unless he somehow miraculously manages to furnish his attic spaces, expelling whatever it is he's got caught in his throat causing involuntary choking episodes at the worst possible times.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 04:59 PM
  #86
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... I missed that post. OP had him tucked & away and almost hidden in behind Thornton. And no, no way does he get inducted. Not unless he somehow miraculously manages to furnish his attic spaces, expelling whatever it is he's got caught in his throat causing involuntary choking episodes at the worst possible times.
His resume has more than enough side dish to it right now... but he either needs to keep doing this for another 8 years (which would make him a "Cujo+" which would be impossible to ignore) or add the main course to the plate... either a Cup or a Vezina. And if he does that, it doesn't really matter what else happens.

but of course, both of those outcomes are far from guaranteed.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 07:23 PM
  #87
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Luongo definitely needs more. But he has done things Cujo hasn't. Two 2nd team all-stars. 2nd in Hart voting. Led his team to a Cup final, won an Olympic gold and as of right now he is only 33 years old. I think Vancouver was nuts for letting him go and I could see another half dozen years of elite hockey if he re-groups. It was only a year ago you would have considered him to be, perhaps, the 2nd best goalie in the world. Truth be told, he has accomplished the same type of career as Belfour did by the same age.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.