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Old
07-24-2012, 05:57 PM
  #351
RandV
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
Agree 100%. The posters that used the Weber offer sheet as an opportunity to bash Gillis look pretty shallow right now.

The other thing, I believe, is that we may not see too many more offer sheets on RFAs for a while. If a team like Nashville will match a predatory offer like this, then it is pretty clear that NHL teams will protect their big time assets.

Hommer thoughthe could low ball Poile and steal Weber. Tough.

We may still get Weber next year, but it won't be for free.

Think I'll drift over to the main boards where the crow buffett should be in full swing.
If Nashville trades Weber it won't be for two seasons. They're not going to pay him 13m cash at the start of the 13/14 season, then trade him when his salary for the rest of the year is only $1m. They'd keep him for year two and only trade him in the off season between before the third $13m bonus kicks in.

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07-24-2012, 06:02 PM
  #352
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If Nashville trades Weber it won't be for two seasons. They're not going to pay him 13m cash at the start of the 13/14 season, then trade him when his salary for the rest of the year is only $1m. They'd keep him for year two and only trade him in the off season between before the third $13m bonus kicks in.
Even then I could see teams lowballing Nashville through June until the signing bonus is paid. That's what happened with Heatley a few years ago and his bonus was a relatively paltry $4 million.

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07-24-2012, 06:21 PM
  #353
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If Nashville trades Weber it won't be for two seasons. They're not going to pay him 13m cash at the start of the 13/14 season, then trade him when his salary for the rest of the year is only $1m. They'd keep him for year two and only trade him in the off season between before the third $13m bonus kicks in.
and they'll still be out 28M for 2 years of his services and teams will still try to bend them over knowing another 13M is due july 1. really, the only way this whole episode works out for nashville is if weber plays there for the bulk of his contract and there is a much stronger revenue sharing built into the new cba. otherwise the team is going to be hurt financially to some extent because of the extreme structure of the deal.

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07-24-2012, 06:37 PM
  #354
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Even then I could see teams lowballing Nashville through June until the signing bonus is paid. That's what happened with Heatley a few years ago and his bonus was a relatively paltry $4 million.
Well Weber > Heatley. Also Weber is unlikely to have an NTC attached to his contract making him a more desirable asset to trade for.

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07-24-2012, 06:41 PM
  #355
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Wonder what Weber's reaction is. If he's upset, it's his own fault.

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07-24-2012, 06:50 PM
  #356
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Gillis was right I give him credit. What amazes me is dreger for instance last night and today kept going on about how gm's said preds couldnt match.Then i see ray ferraro wondering what webers mindset was.

Gillis pretty much summed it up yesterday, said preds would match anything all along, and all that weber wanted was a new contract before the cba.

He knew what he was talking about, and I tended to believe him because he would look extremely bad if he was wrong.

Still i dont get the unbelievable praise for gillis and hatred for holmgren, he took a shot. If gillis offered that contract everyone here would also be calling him genius when he originally offered it.


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Old
07-24-2012, 07:05 PM
  #357
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The NHL will be paying the Predators bills by the start of the 2013-14 season, book it!

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Old
07-24-2012, 07:24 PM
  #358
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Shea Weber is going to show up at the CBA negotiations with an angry beard and demand that the "cannot trade for 1 year" rule is retroactively changed for the next agreement

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07-24-2012, 07:24 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Even then I could see teams lowballing Nashville through June until the signing bonus is paid. That's what happened with Heatley a few years ago and his bonus was a relatively paltry $4 million.
Oh, I'm fairly sure a team like Philadelphia or Vancouver would pony up and pay the 13 million in order to get a deal done.

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07-24-2012, 07:29 PM
  #360
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Oh, I'm fairly sure a team like Philadelphia or Vancouver would pony up and pay the 13 million in order to get a deal done.
They would, but it would create a scenario where there's a huge incentive for Nashville to get the deal done quickly which is going to put them at a disadvantage in negotiations.

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07-24-2012, 07:52 PM
  #361
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They would, but it would create a scenario where there's a huge incentive for Nashville to get the deal done quickly which is going to put them at a disadvantage in negotiations.
Could be a deadline deal in 18 months to avoid that deadline. Or maybe he's there for 14 years. His agents sure don't make it seem like that's what he wants, though. Another rebuild..

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07-24-2012, 08:39 PM
  #362
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Could be a deadline deal in 18 months to avoid that deadline. Or maybe he's there for 14 years. His agents sure don't make it seem like that's what he wants, though. Another rebuild..
Weber has zero leverage right now and if they try and force a trade, he might end up somewhere even WORSE than Nashville. He and his agent are complete morons if they thought that they could get both paid this summer and dictate where he plays.

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07-24-2012, 08:50 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Weber has zero leverage right now and if they try and force a trade, he might end up somewhere even WORSE than Nashville. He and his agent are complete morons if they thought that they could get both paid this summer and dictate where he plays.
No question about that. This is the read I got the day it was signed, though. Stupid/greedy, but the way his agent was going on and on doing the radio circuit, it looked pretty obvious like his agents convinced Shea he could have his cake and eat it too.

But they'll still get paid, so I doubt they really care where he plays.

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07-24-2012, 09:35 PM
  #364
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Not much Gillis could have done here. Cost in assets was unacceptable, Preds would have matched any long-term deal, and Weber wouldn't accept the 1-year deal.

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:32 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by mrbitterguy View Post
and they'll still be out 28M for 2 years of his services and teams will still try to bend them over knowing another 13M is due july 1. really, the only way this whole episode works out for nashville is if weber plays there for the bulk of his contract and there is a much stronger revenue sharing built into the new cba. otherwise the team is going to be hurt financially to some extent because of the extreme structure of the deal.
I don't think so.

1) any attempt to screw Nashville over in a trade using July 1 as leverage is doomed to backfire. Nashville will just pay the $13m and then keep Weber for the entire year. Screw yourself worse than you screw Nashville in that scenario, at least they has a norris level guy.

2) Weber is VERY wanted. Just as Nashville might want to avoid the $13m hit, any trading team would want to get the deal done before Nashville keeps him for a year. It's a 2-way deadline, and you are dealing for a guy you really want. Hardball really only works when the player is overpaid, underperforming, forcing a team to trade them, and a surplus luxury to your team.

3) A dozen other teams are after him too. More than one of them will not play hardball.

You don't **** around in a situation like that, find a mutual deal then bang july 1 deal and pay.

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07-24-2012, 10:36 PM
  #366
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I don't think so.

1) any attempt to screw Nashville over in a trade using July 1 as leverage is doomed to backfire. Nashville will just pay the $13m and then keep Weber for the entire year. Screw yourself worse than you screw Nashville in that scenario, at least they has a norris level guy.

2) Weber is VERY wanted. Just as Nashville might want to avoid the $13m hit, any trading team would want to get the deal done before Nashville keeps him for a year. It's a 2-way deadline, and you are dealing for a guy you really want. Hardball really only works when the player is meh, forcing a team and a surplus luxury to your team.

3) A dozen other teams are after him too. More than one of them will not play hardball.

You don't **** around in a situation like that, find a mutual deal then bang july 1 deal and pay.
I imagine the only time Nashville would even entertain the idea of trading Weber was if he asked to be moved, in which case keeping him another year isn't really an option. If Weber isn't disgruntled, Nashville probably wouldn't dream of trading him, especially after paying 1/4 of his contract value in the first year.

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07-24-2012, 10:53 PM
  #367
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Gotta think the Flyers knew that Nashville would match and just did so no one else could acquire him. Frustrating.
They've made more than one enemy with a single offer sheet.

Bad move on their part IMO.

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:13 PM
  #368
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I don't see why webers agent was going on about "another rebuild" anyway. They clearly showed last year that they were ready to start ponying up financially to try and win. Suter wasn't gonna go back there no matter what, however, one player a rebuild does not make. Nashville basically proved that they are in it to win today. They are going to be a playoff team again, and with a couple decent deadline acquisitions a cup contender IMO.

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07-24-2012, 11:32 PM
  #369
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I don't see why webers agent was going on about "another rebuild" anyway. They clearly showed last year that they were ready to start ponying up financially to try and win. Suter wasn't gonna go back there no matter what, however, one player a rebuild does not make. Nashville basically proved that they are in it to win today. They are going to be a playoff team again, and with a couple decent deadline acquisitions a cup contender IMO.
I don't think they are all that close to being a cup contender. Having 2 #1 D-men and a top-tier goaltender papered over their problems upfront. There was too much scoring by committee, and no real star forwards. Fisher and Hornqvist were their only 20 goal scorers last year, and no one cracked the 60 point mark. Losing Radulov to the KHL doesn't help matters either.

Suter was actually their 5th leading scorer. Aside from Weber, their D-core is pretty thin, and aren't going to contribute offense from the back-end like Suter did.

As the roster is right now, I think they will be somewhere in the 7th through 10th place pack of teams. They are going to struggle to make the playoffs.

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Old
07-25-2012, 12:44 AM
  #370
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I can't believe Semin is still on the market. How is he not getting any decent offers?

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:40 AM
  #371
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I can't believe Semin is still on the market. How is he not getting any decent offers?
Must be a combination of his alleged attitude problems and that he may be demanding too much.

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07-25-2012, 01:43 AM
  #372
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Must be a combination of his alleged attitude problems and that he may be demanding too much.
I don't think it's the former (well, maybe in that it makes him less attractive of an option than Doan), I think it's simply a money thing and maybe also Semin holding out until Doan situation resolves itself. Doan is really the only other guy that's better or comparable to Semin. Once that situation clears up you have a lot more teams willing to bid to the max because there's no one else left out there.

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07-25-2012, 01:44 AM
  #373
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Here's a thought, and an opportunity for the new CBA to help us obtain Weber.

Let's say that the NHL in the new CBA allows for cash to be traded as an asset. Now let's assume that Weber really does not want to be in Nashville and asks for a trade next summer. Since the Canucks didn't burn any bridges with an offersheet like Philly did, we could realistically make an offer to Nashville for Weber and include cash considerations to ease the blow for paying him $27M in the first calendar year.

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:50 AM
  #374
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For those calling holmgrens strategy a failure....I dont see weber playing for the Pittsburgh penguins, New York rangers, or any other EC team. He may not have weber in his team today, but he lost nothing in making sure that none of his rivals have Shea weber on their teams either. That's far from failing if U ask me, in fact, it's much more proactive and "brilliant" than anything mike gillis did during this whole Weber gong show! To those of you still trying to dig up scenarios where Shea Weber still somehow ends up a Vancouver Canuck I would recommend getting over it already. We lost out on him, it's over, move on.

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07-25-2012, 01:57 AM
  #375
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I don't think they are all that close to being a cup contender. Having 2 #1 D-men and a top-tier goaltender papered over their problems upfront. There was too much scoring by committee, and no real star forwards. Fisher and Hornqvist were their only 20 goal scorers last year, and no one cracked the 60 point mark. Losing Radulov to the KHL doesn't help matters either.

Suter was actually their 5th leading scorer. Aside from Weber, their D-core is pretty thin, and aren't going to contribute offense from the back-end like Suter did.

As the roster is right now, I think they will be somewhere in the 7th through 10th place pack of teams. They are going to struggle to make the playoffs.
If there was a roster freeze on I could see your point. It's the middle of the UFA period, and 8 months till the trade deadline. Everyone is saying Nashville broke themselves on this one, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see poile make another splash before the season. Proving to his freshly locked up captain that he will be given a chance to win moving forward.

PS. Radulov is addition by subtraction.

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