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The Hockey News: Habs Draft 2012 = A+

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Old
07-24-2012, 09:52 AM
  #26
Madevilz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Every year is supposed to be "tha deepest eva!!!"

But in 10 months, it's gonna end up being a slightly above average crop.
not really, the last draft that was really hyped about was 2003, and they were right about it.

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07-24-2012, 10:04 AM
  #27
JAVO16
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This year was supposed to be a very good draft and a lot of the prospect got injured/disappointed. Every year, the next draft is supposed to be better. 2011 was supposed to be a weak draft and it ended up being a ok to good one while this year was supposed to be a strong draft. We'll have a better idea about the next draft after Christmas next year.

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07-24-2012, 10:07 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
not really, the last draft that was really hyped about was 2003, and they were right about it.
I wonder to what extent the 2003 draft class benefited from the lockout.

It may have helped their development.

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:22 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Timmins is great at making picks based on scouting reports. The future outcome of a player? Well, that is difficult at best.
What you are saying is that Timmins is not great at predicting the future outcomes of players? If that is what you are saying then, according to at least 2 studies, you are wrong:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...habs-can-draft

Ed Willes of the Vancouver Province looked at the results of the NHL draft from 2000-09 and what he found is this:

Quote:
Sorry, can't explain this but the numbers don't lie. The Habs have the highest rating in the study. In 2003, they took six players who made the NHL. In 2005they selected four more NHLers. In 2007, four more including Max Pacioretty and P.K. Subban. The high-end talent hasn't been there but the Habs have consistently found players.

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07-24-2012, 11:19 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
not really, the last draft that was really hyped about was 2003, and they were right about it.
Every year is hyped up. This year wasn't, but most are.

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:08 PM
  #31
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Today's hockey is all about asset managment... Buy low, sell high. Unfortunately we have had an organization that was passive the past few years and most often the not we have traded from a position of weakness.

I would like to see us deal One of Markov, Gionta or plekanek this year with the intentions of just gradually make us a team that is harder to play against. Another big body in the top 6 would change everything for us...

On D once one of Tinordi, beaulieu or Ellis join the team it will also change us a lot.

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:38 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
When did this happen? For a while there I was sure we had something special...
Well it was a weak draft, he didn't play at all last year, and a lot of scout weren't seeing him that him. And of course if you look at the draft history, there were a lot of busts in this kind of weak year. (Pouliot, Barker, Zherdev, Filatov)

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Old
07-24-2012, 01:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Well it was a weak draft, he didn't play at all last year, and a lot of scout weren't seeing him that him. And of course if you look at the draft history, there were a lot of busts in this kind of weak year. (Pouliot, Barker, Zherdev, Filatov)
You're actually serious? I'd never thought I'd say this so soon, but give Galchenyuk a chance

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07-24-2012, 02:52 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
You're actually serious? I'd never thought I'd say this so soon, but give Galchenyuk a chance
You didn't get my point (though with the amount of typos I made it is understandable). Galchenyuk is a solid prospect, but other solid prospects failed. There are a few questions marks with him, and we'll have a better idea of what he's worth in a year. But high draft picks are far form sure to become great players. Some bust, while others become good players but not stars. It is quite possible that Galchenyuk, without busting completely, will become as good as Plekanec and Desharnais.

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:12 PM
  #35
Paul Dipietro
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
You didn't get my point (though with the amount of typos I made it is understandable). Galchenyuk is a solid prospect, but other solid prospects failed. There are a few questions marks with him, and we'll have a better idea of what he's worth in a year. But high draft picks are far form sure to become great players. Some bust, while others become good players but not stars. It is quite possible that Galchenyuk, without busting completely, will become as good as Plekanec and Desharnais.
Since it looks like you're playing the odds game here, I'd argue that high draft picks are far more likely to become stars than lower picks

Add to that his exemplary work-ethic, the scoring touch he showed in his rookie CHL season, and the reports that he was often the best player for Sarnia during their last playoffs, please allow us a few minutes of optimism

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:01 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
And you're great at spitting stuff based on nothing. You should apply as the Habs head scout
You and a few others are missing the entire point.

I know that it ruffles feathers when Timmins' name is spoken in a less than glowing manner. But this is not exclusive to Timmins. Every team has drafted a player(s) that did not live up to hype or expectations.

So lets leave Timmins out of this.

"Tanking" in the HOPE of getting a superstar in the draft is a fools approach to the NHL. A. Kostitsyn is living proof of that. So is Kyle Chipchura.

And if you think that is based on nothing.....well, your choice.

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:16 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
What you are saying is that Timmins is not great at predicting the future outcomes of players? If that is what you are saying then, according to at least 2 studies, you are wrong:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...habs-can-draft

Ed Willes of the Vancouver Province looked at the results of the NHL draft from 2000-09 and what he found is this:
Not what I said.

See if any of these names get you to realize what I am saying....


Rick DiPietro
Patrik Stefan
Alexandre Daigle
Andrei Zyuzin
Alexander Svitov
Alexandre Volchkov
Jason Bonsignore
Benoit Pouliot
Thomas Hickey
Hugh Jessiman
Petr Taticek

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:17 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post

Rick DiPietro
Patrik Stefan
Alexandre Daigle
Andrei Zyuzin
Alexander Svitov
Alexandre Volchkov
Jason Bonsignore
Benoit Pouliot
Thomas Hickey
Hugh Jessiman
Petr Taticek
There is no strategy with a 100% success rate.

Your argument is that drafting top-5 has a success rate below 100%. That is not a valid argument.

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:21 PM
  #39
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
There is no strategy with a 100% success rate.

Your argument is that drafting top-5 has a success rate below 100%. That is not a valid argument.
And wanting to dump veterans (To Tank ) in the hope of getting a top draft pick is what kind of strategy?

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Old
07-24-2012, 10:26 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by 24stanleycups View Post
There's no question that with the exception of a couple blips on Trevor Timmins career, he has been one of, if not the best scouts in the NHL in recent history. My question is, with next year projected to be an even stronger draft than the crazy, getzlaf, parise, carter, perry, richards, staal one, should we, instead of seeing where our health carry's us this year, be shipping off, our vets for picks. Gionta, Bourque, kaberle, markov, gomez, and even...erik cole. i mean..those guys just don't fit in with the era we're trying to build for. Alex galchenyuk isn't going to be the player we need him to be until those guys are sipping margarita's in the carribean, ya know? Nor is beulieu or tinordi, or collberg, or leblanc or next years pick. What do you guys think?
Trade Yes :
Gionta, Bourque, Kaberle, Gomez

No trade :
Cole, Markov

reason : we need a good mix of talented veteran presence. Cole and Markov are still good for 3 years and we can win the cup in 3 years depending on acquisition and prospect development.

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:23 PM
  #41
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i would like another 1st round pick next year at least.

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Not what I said.

See if any of these names get you to realize what I am saying....


Rick DiPietro
Patrik Stefan
Alexandre Daigle
Andrei Zyuzin
Alexander Svitov
Alexandre Volchkov
Jason Bonsignore
Benoit Pouliot
Thomas Hickey
Hugh Jessiman
Petr Taticek

See if any of these names get you to realize something else...

Sidney Crosby
Jonathan Toews
Alexander Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Vincent Lecavalier
Dany Heatley
Daniel Sedin
Henrik Sedin
Joe Thornton
Patrick Marleau
John Tavares
Eric Staal
Tyler Seguin
Drew Doughty
Bobby Ryan
Chris Pronger
Paul Kariya
Taylor Hall
Matt Duchene
Viktor Hedman
Jason Spezza
Ilya Kovalchuk
Marian Gaborik
etc. etc.

It's a fact that if you draft higher, you're significantly more likely to get a quality player. Especially now, as scouting becomes more sophisticated, your chances of drafting a bust that early are significantly lower than they were 10 years ago. Look at every draft from 2000-2010. How many top 5 picks can you find that ended up not being impact players for their teams?

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Old
07-24-2012, 11:59 PM
  #43
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
See if any of these names get you to realize something else...

Sidney Crosby
Jonathan Toews
Alexander Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Vincent Lecavalier
Dany Heatley
Daniel Sedin
Henrik Sedin
Joe Thornton
Patrick Marleau
John Tavares
Eric Staal
Tyler Seguin
Drew Doughty
Bobby Ryan
Chris Pronger
Paul Kariya
Taylor Hall
Matt Duchene
Viktor Hedman
Jason Spezza
Ilya Kovalchuk
Marian Gaborik
etc. etc.

It's a fact that if you draft higher, you're significantly more likely to get a quality player. Especially now, as scouting becomes more sophisticated, your chances of drafting a bust that early are significantly lower than they were 10 years ago. Look at every draft from 2000-2010. How many top 5 picks can you find that ended up not being impact players for their teams?
Edmonton regards.

What the **** has happened to the fan base of Montreal? It seems vogue to want to continue to lose in the hopes of maybe landing a good pick that might help the Habs in 3 or 4 years.

So lets keep playing to lose. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.

**** Molson, **** Bergevin, **** every single hire this season. Oh, and **** all of the Habs on this team right now. **** em all. Lets keep playing for the top draft pick each season.

If it works for you, then be all for it.

Lose Habs Lose, right?


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Old
07-25-2012, 12:22 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
Since it looks like you're playing the odds game here, I'd argue that high draft picks are far more likely to become stars than lower picks

Add to that his exemplary work-ethic, the scoring touch he showed in his rookie CHL season, and the reports that he was often the best player for Sarnia during their last playoffs, please allow us a few minutes of optimism
thank you sir. Gaaaalllllchenyuk is going to be good . I'd be satisfied with a 2 way, 50 pts like J.staal ... but I believe he can be the best of the draft ... at worst, he'll be a strong 2nd line center. ''please allow us a few minutes of optimism ''- Paul dipietro ...

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Old
07-25-2012, 12:39 AM
  #45
WeeBey
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Edmonton regards.

What the **** has happened to the fan base of Montreal? It seems vogue to want to continue to lose in the hopes of maybe landing a good pick that might help the Habs in 3 or 4 years.

So lets keep playing to lose. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.

**** Molson, **** Bergevin, **** every single hire this season. Oh, and **** all of the Habs on this team right now. **** em all. Lets keep playing for the top draft pick each season.

If it works for you, then be all for it.

Lose Habs Lose, right?

I never said any of that. I would rather the team finish last than in 8th place though. Good teams are built through the draft. Every Cup winner has a strong foundation of players they drafted in their roster. That's how you win championships. Not by squeaking into 8th place for years on end.

I'm just saying it's a straight up lie to imply that the top 5 is filled with busts, when there's overwhelming evidence that proves otherwise.

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Old
07-25-2012, 07:08 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You and a few others are missing the entire point.

I know that it ruffles feathers when Timmins' name is spoken in a less than glowing manner. But this is not exclusive to Timmins. Every team has drafted a player(s) that did not live up to hype or expectations.

So lets leave Timmins out of this.

"Tanking" in the HOPE of getting a superstar in the draft is a fools approach to the NHL. A. Kostitsyn is living proof of that. So is Kyle Chipchura.

And if you think that is based on nothing.....well, your choice.

110% agree with this post.

Potential is never guaranteed success at the next levels.

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Old
07-25-2012, 07:11 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
I never said any of that. I would rather the team finish last than in 8th place though. Good teams are built through the draft. Every Cup winner has a strong foundation of players they drafted in their roster. That's how you win championships. Not by squeaking into 8th place for years on end.

.

LA finished 8th in their conference, just sayin'!!!

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Old
07-25-2012, 07:16 AM
  #48
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LA finished 8th in their conference, just sayin'!!!
And they're the first 8th place (IIRC) that won the Stanley Cup....

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Old
07-25-2012, 08:19 AM
  #49
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And they're the first 8th place (IIRC) that won the Stanley Cup....
Yeah but we're really in a new era. The year before we almost beat the Bruins in the first round even though we had a few injured players. And of course they went on to win the cup.

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Old
07-25-2012, 09:21 AM
  #50
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No way would I want this team to do a rebuild. If you look at our roster we have a lot going for us.

Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Paccioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Eller-Gomez-Armstrong
Moen-Nokolainen-Prust
x-White, Blunden, Palushaj

Markov-Emelin
Subban-Gorges
Kaberle-Boullion
x-Weber, Diaz, St.Denis

Price
Budaj

That team has some skill and has added size and toughness.

Then look at our prospect list with NHL potential. Not saying that they will all be NHLers at all but they have potential.

Forwards:
Bozon, Geoffrion, MacMillan, Hudon, Galchenyuk, Leblanc, Bournival, Holland, Vail, Dumont, Collberg, Gallagher, Kristo, Quailer, Avtsin, Schultz, Pribyl

Defence:
Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Thrower, Bennett, Dietz, Nash

Goalies:
none

With that list of prospects including and upcoming first and three second rounders I feel as if we are pretty set. In five years if even half of those guys are good enough to play in the NHL we will not have enough room for them.

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