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Poile

View Poll Results: Will Poile be fired before the season starts?
Yes 13 15.29%
No 72 84.71%
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Old
07-23-2012, 09:06 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
You make Weber want to sign here. It's the one thing you're paid extremely well to do.

This isn't Joel Ward wanted to cash in on a good playoff series, wish him luck on his new team. This is quite possibly THE best player the franchise will likely ever own, whether you or I believe it's fair, a GM should be tied to his marquee players. Poile failed to retain Suter and is on the verge of losing Weber, this is after he has been compensated millions of dollars each year to recruit and retain talent like Suter and Weber.

On almost any other team Poile is out the door, here he's lucky because the owners have already stated that they are business men only and the hockey side is all on Poile. Now the owners are the only ones who know what tools Poile has to work with, but as long as he's got enough money to make competitive offers (and they did say we'd be a cap team), then it's Poile's job to convince his franchise defensemen that his city, team and contract are the right ones for them.
Once again, if Weber didn't have any desire to be with Nashville, nothing would convince him to change his mind.

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07-23-2012, 09:07 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
You make Weber want to sign here. It's the one thing you're paid extremely well to do.

This isn't Joel Ward wanted to cash in on a good playoff series, wish him luck on his new team. This is quite possibly THE best player the franchise will likely ever own, whether you or I believe it's fair, a GM should be tied to his marquee players. Poile failed to retain Suter and is on the verge of losing Weber, this is after he has been compensated millions of dollars each year to recruit and retain talent like Suter and Weber.

On almost any other team Poile is out the door, here he's lucky because the owners have already stated that they are business men only and the hockey side is all on Poile. Now the owners are the only ones who know what tools Poile has to work with, but as long as he's got enough money to make competitive offers (and they did say we'd be a cap team), then it's Poile's job to convince his franchise defensemen that his city, team and contract are the right ones for them.
It's simple. If Poile was authorized to front load deals and didn't, he is to blame and deserves whatever is coming to him. If he was authorized to make big total money deals that were of a different structure that the players refused to accept hoping for a short term payday, that is on the owners. It is the call of Cigarran and Co on that one ... just as is matching the offer sheet or not.

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07-23-2012, 09:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Once again, if Weber didn't have any desire to be with Nashville, nothing would convince him to change his mind.
It's the GM's job to make the player desire a contract in Nashville.

You can argue that he never had a chance, but we're talking a lot of $$$ these days and this GM is making a lot of money to not be retaining this level of talent. This is how big money, pro sports operates. I'm not going to feel bad for any coach or GM who is canned fairly or unfairly, they make more in one year that most people will make in a lifetime. They get to experience a job that .00000004% of the world holds. They have one job, the coach must win, the GM must recruit and retain. It's a bottom line industry and for whatever reasons our two have been given way too much slack in that regard.

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07-23-2012, 09:34 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
It's the GM's job to make the player desire a contract in Nashville.

You can argue that he never had a chance, but we're talking a lot of $$$ these days and this GM is making a lot of money to not be retaining this level of talent. This is how big money, pro sports operates. I'm not going to feel bad for any coach or GM who is canned fairly or unfairly, they make more in one year that most people will make in a lifetime. They get to experience a job that .00000004% of the world holds. They have one job, the coach must win, the GM must recruit and retain. It's a bottom line industry and for whatever reasons our two have been given way too much slack in that regard.
The slack was given because Nashville can not compete in negotiations with big market clubs. Period.
The reason? There are other clubs out there with better everything than Nashville.

If you follow euro soccer a bit you'll understand.

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07-24-2012, 03:50 PM
  #105
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Well, I guess Poile got good results, still don't like how it was handled, still don't think you let your star players hit RFA status.

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07-24-2012, 04:04 PM
  #106
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Well, I guess Poile got good results, still don't like how it was handled, still don't think you let your star players hit RFA status.
Yea, you just don't let franchise players get to this state. I give credit where it's due. I think this one goes to ownership and whatever Nigerian princess was involved in shelling out that money.

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07-24-2012, 04:19 PM
  #107
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Poile dodged a bullet. He lives to see another season

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07-24-2012, 04:22 PM
  #108
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i wouldn't relax if I am poile. everyone knows he screwed the pooch on both 6 and 20.

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07-24-2012, 05:56 PM
  #109
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When you start costing business men unneccessary money they are usually not happy. I would be shocked if he is not fired. He should be point blank period.

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07-24-2012, 06:44 PM
  #110
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When you start costing business men unneccessary money they are usually not happy. I would be shocked if he is not fired. He should be point blank period.
Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner

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07-24-2012, 06:49 PM
  #111
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if nothing else, this summer should get the owners more involved and looking seriously at what's going on with the roster vs the previous "In Poile We Trust" attitude.

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07-24-2012, 07:00 PM
  #112
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Just how much did Poile cost the owners above and beyond what Weber was going to cost? How far out of the guidance he was provided was Poile in his actions this summer? There's no public information to answer either question yet people demand his firing.

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07-24-2012, 07:11 PM
  #113
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he didn't cost them more total money, but he cost them an investment they were not looking to make. he has screwed the pooch on 3 FA now. Hamhuis, Suter, and Weber. and before anyone starts the hamhuis was on his way out, he could have worked a bit harder the summer prior rather than take him at his word he might come back. see a pattern?

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07-24-2012, 07:21 PM
  #114
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he didn't cost them more total money, but he cost them an investment they were not looking to make. he has screwed the pooch on 3 FA now. Hamhuis, Suter, and Weber. and before anyone starts the hamhuis was on his way out, he could have worked a bit harder the summer prior rather than take him at his word he might come back. see a pattern?
So when he keeps a player for the stretch run then trades rights for assets that become a roster player, he's wrong? (Hamhuis situation) We have no clue what the offer to Suter or Weber was in terms of structure. All we've heard is the total dollars and years to a before final Wild bid on Suter ... no details as to bonus structure or what he was told he could spend ... no details at all on what was offered to Weber. Yet, with a total lack of fact, he should get fired?

For the umteenth time, if he failed to operate within the guidance and maximize the resources provided by the owners, then Poile deserves all blame. If he made the max offers possible with what the owners provided and was trying to work the structure to as closely meet the players' wants while remaining within his guidelines/limitations ... he then did his job. Of course, that position requires acceptance that we don't know what Poile was given by the owners, what happened in negotiations, or how reasonable his offers to the players were. I, along with everyone else here, remain ignorant of those details.

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07-24-2012, 07:30 PM
  #115
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Poile won't be fired, but we are seeing exactly why he is unable to take teams to the elite level.

2 years ago when Weber was named captain, Weber said he wanted to work out an extension. A story ran a few days later saying Poile would talk to his agent when he was in the same town. Poile refereed to himself as "old fashion", liking face-to-face meetings. A month or 2 later, Weber had a new agent. Window blown.

I highly speculate the whole Radulov to Russia (the first time) would have been squashed by a proactive GM. At the least, would have traded him if it wasn't working out in Nashville. Seeing how out of tune he is with the players, it would not surprise me.

Hamhuis was on the way out and could have easily been replaced by a plethora of UFAs. We chose to keep him and not cash in our asset for needed pieces.

Poile was obviously out of touch with Suter. When asked about Suter's extension last year, he said he was too busy with the Weber arbitration (another huge mistake, btw).

Beyond protecting our assets, he has made virtually no attempts to improve our team long term (the biggest thing 6 & 20 and many fans were wanting). Yes, we've acquired some highly priced deadline rentals. In terms of the offseason, he is the least proactive GM on the planet. His last semi-relevant UFA signing was Jason Arnott 8 YEARS AGO (and yes, he had to call us). Over the last 10 years, the only semi-relevant offseason trade that benefited us was Sergie Kosisyten.

Poile-- builds a team winning record, but not a "winner". Pretty much sums up his 30 year career as a GM.

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07-24-2012, 07:44 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Poile won't be fired, but we are seeing exactly why he is unable to take teams to the elite level.

2 years ago when Weber was named captain, Weber said he wanted to work out an extension. A story ran a few days later saying Poile would talk to his agent when he was in the same town. Poile refereed to himself as "old fashion", liking face-to-face meetings. A month or 2 later, Weber had a new agent. Window blown.

I highly speculate the whole Radulov to Russia (the first time) would have been squashed by a proactive GM. At the least, would have traded him if it wasn't working out in Nashville. Seeing how out of tune he is with the players, it would not surprise me.

Hamhuis was on the way out and could have easily been replaced by a plethora of UFAs. We chose to keep him and not cash in our asset for needed pieces.

Poile was obviously out of touch with Suter. When asked about Suter's extension last year, he said he was too busy with the Weber arbitration (another huge mistake, btw).

Beyond protecting our assets, he has made virtually no attempts to improve our team long term (the biggest thing 6 & 20 and many fans were wanting). Yes, we've acquired some highly priced deadline rentals. In terms of the offseason, he is the least proactive GM on the planet. His last semi-relevant UFA signing was Jason Arnott 8 YEARS AGO (and yes, he had to call us). Over the last 10 years, the only semi-relevant offseason trade that benefited us was Sergie Kosisyten.

Poile-- builds a team winning record, but not a "winner". Pretty much sums up his 30 year career as a GM.
W. Brett Wilson said the Preds offer to Weber was $104million. The more details come out about the overall offers looked like, it seems to me that structure rather than total money is the issue. Structure goes back to how much is Poile authorized to front load vs what the players are demanding.

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07-24-2012, 11:13 PM
  #117
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everyone forgets that Poile has had to work in an extremely tight budget up until this summer

when push came to shove, Weber and Suter obviously were determined to get maximum dollars, and all the pleasantries they expressed about getting extensions done early went away as soon as their agents told them what they could get of they played hardball. To cover their ***** they started saying crap about wanting to see if the team was committed to winning but what they were really saying was they wanted to see if they could get the most cash. I have said it before and I will say it again, Weber and Suter were operating under the assumption that whatever Poile offered, someone else would offer more because Poile was on a budget.... thus Webers desire for an offer sheet last summer and Suters determination to reach UFA status....

So, as of last summer and up until this summer, when it became unavoidably apparent that true "lifetime" deals were going to be necessary, Poile didn't have the authority to offer a deal that Weber or Suter would have signed. So I don't know how you blame poile for that

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07-24-2012, 11:28 PM
  #118
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Wait... all of the sudden a team on a budget is supposed to have paid a second pairing defenseman who was coming off of a poor season the $4.5m he eventually took?

Hamhuis was asking for what was first pairing money at the time to never break into the top pair (he likely would now, but who really thought we would be losing Suter before, say, the ASG?) Hate on Poile all you want, but that was never going to happen. I don't agree that trading him at the deadline was the wisest move, either, but that's better than the idea that Poile screwed up by not keeping him.

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07-24-2012, 11:51 PM
  #119
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Wait... all of the sudden a team on a budget is supposed to have paid a second pairing defenseman who was coming off of a poor season the $4.5m he eventually took?

Hamhuis was asking for what was first pairing money at the time to never break into the top pair (he likely would now, but who really thought we would be losing Suter before, say, the ASG?) Hate on Poile all you want, but that was never going to happen. I don't agree that trading him at the deadline was the wisest move, either, but that's better than the idea that Poile screwed up by not keeping him.
No, we shouldn't have kept Hamhuis.

The offseason before he was UFA he would've had a very good trade value. We had tons of depth and even let guys like Zanon walk. Could've traded Hamhuis to address needs (scoring). Instead, we rode out his value to nothing when we knew he was out of here.

It's just one of the many examples of Poile's loyalty to a fault and refusal to trade roster players.

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07-24-2012, 11:53 PM
  #120
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Poile dodged a bullet. He lives to see another season
Exactly what I was about to say, nothing to see here.

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07-25-2012, 07:00 AM
  #121
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Hamhuis was possibly a mistake - you had to know he thought more highly of his skills and contributions than the team did from how he'd handled his first negotiations/holdout. That one - trading him before the final contract season and perhaps hanging onto Zanon - in retrospect is clearly a mistake, and I think one that Poile should have seen. 6&20 - I think it's been explained pretty well - they clearly wanted max-value contracts and their agents clearly told them they had to get offers cause we're a "budget" team and we weren't gonna' give them that. Given the reasonable cap-hit for Webs, and the not-outrageous cap-hit for Sutes, I'm willing to bet that somewhere along the way Poile put a contract with that kinda' money in front of them. I'm fairly confident he didn't have the OK from the owners to front-load the way Sutes is, much less Webers.

and then there's Peks - guess that one he gets no credit for? Or TV - signed him, too, and then Liarpold debacle forced us to dump him. Small budget cash-flow constrained team all-in-all been managed pretty well - and if you don't think so, ask Viqsi how things are up there in Cbus and how the last 2 offseasons have gone trading away a couple of their kids for stars, then sending away said stars and their captain for marginal assets; THAT is what you're advocating - the Poile woulda' traded Hammer, or Sutes, for less than the assets they got. Fanbase be hollering for Poile's head for that.

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07-25-2012, 07:42 AM
  #122
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all this revisionist history on Hamhuis is bullcrap. It fails to take into account that we were trying to climb that hill to get from marginal playoff team to consistent competitor. Trading a guy who was clearly a good player just because we were pretty sure he was leaving would have been a step back and depending on the return might have slowed our progress significantly.

With Suter and Weber in front of him, Hamhuis wasnt destined to be a #1 in nashville but he had enough talent to get #1 money from somebody. He was gone regardless, and just like it was appropriate to keep Suter to make this years run, I think keeping him for his last year as we tried to make progress was appropriate

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07-25-2012, 07:47 AM
  #123
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No, we shouldn't have kept Hamhuis.

The offseason before he was UFA he would've had a very good trade value. We had tons of depth and even let guys like Zanon walk. Could've traded Hamhuis to address needs (scoring). Instead, we rode out his value to nothing when we knew he was out of here.

It's just one of the many examples of Poile's loyalty to a fault and refusal to trade roster players.
this is the pro sports equivalent of the gamblers fallacy... assuming that because we didnt trade him and got a certain result that if we had traded him we would have had the opposite result.... Hamhuis had a pretty "meh" year in his next to last season with us... to look back now and think we could have got Giroux from Philly or some other great forward has just no basis in reality. We would have more likely received a pick and a prospect, not a top 6 forward. Whether that prospect panned out would have been a crapshoot....

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07-25-2012, 08:03 AM
  #124
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Highly doubt Poile is fired; Brett Wilson is a big fan as am I. I think many underestimate the difficulty of getting big-name players to stay / sign in small, non-traditional markets. Dallas' biggest name ever was likely Modano or Hull, but both are gone now and they haven't snagged any other big names until Jagr this offseason, but I'd be shocked if he stays for more than a year. ATL lost Ilya and we know where they ended up. PHX is losing Doan and already lost Ray Whitney.

You can't look at these things in a bubble or compare the Preds FA success with those of NYR, MTL, BOS, PHI, etc.; when I look at our market-size peers with similar tenures in the league, I think we've done fairly well.

EDIT: And before someone brings up MIN getting Parise and Suter, you have to remember that A) family proximity was a big part of that decision for both players, and B) MN is without a doubt the most hockey-crazy state in the US. It's a smaller market, but not a comparable market to me.

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07-25-2012, 08:15 AM
  #125
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According to the Brett Wilson interview, the Preds (through Poile) offered $104mil to Weber during talks prior to the offer sheet. We don't know structure, but, it doesn't appear that we were going lowball here.

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