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07-25-2012, 12:42 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Bouwmeester has basically never made the playoffs in his entire NHL/Junior career. That sets off a few red flags.
It's not like he's been in the league for 15 years on 9 teams and never made it. He's spent his whole pro career with 2 below average teams, many times just falling short.

I'm indifferent about him really, and would prefer Visnovsky or Streit, but JBO, though overpaid, makes this club better. Period. In 2 years, Whitney and JBo can be future endevoured if need be assuming by then Petry and Schultz can take on their roles, while Klefbom and Marincin learn the trade towards the bottom of the line-up.

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07-25-2012, 12:48 PM
  #102
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Point is, is Teubert really so special a prospect that he's untouchable? We have other players in the system with higher ceilings than him (ie. Musil).
Just to jump into your conversation because I was arguing against Teubert to Calgary. No he is not untouchable. But I don't want to give him to a division rival either. We may have better d prospects, but none are as physical as Teubert. 68 hits in 24gp when his skating is obviously below NHL level is impressive. I shudder to think what he could do to us if he fixed his skating playing in Calgary. Not worth the risk imo. That is why I'd prefer to give them a potential puck mover like Marincin or Gernat. I am not as worried about Calgary scoring on us as I am about them hurting our guys.

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07-25-2012, 12:59 PM
  #103
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I don't want JBO at all. While I don't think for a second Klefbom will step in next year and be a top 4 guy right away, I think he will end up a 2nd pairing guy by the end of next season (after this season in SWE). For this coming season I hope we just ride out Whitney and hope the full off season of training does what it should do. Whitney's contract is done after this season and Klefbom can step into his spot without much ripple. If we are close to a playoff spot, then keep Whitney all year. If not, then move him at the deadline, but keep his spot warm for Klefbom.

Realistic expectations are a bonus for us. I think the natural progression of the kids here and the kids coming in will mean a decent improvement. We do have the luxury of finishing 29th and thus having a finish just outside of the playoffs being seen as a major improvement. I just hope ST doesn't sacrifice anything for false hope this coming year. IMHO this coming year is the big transition year. Set the table this coming season and I really think the flood gates will really begin to open with FAs wanting to sign here.

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07-25-2012, 01:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Just to jump into your conversation because I was arguing against Teubert to Calgary. No he is not untouchable. But I don't want to give him to a division rival either. We may have better d prospects, but none are as physical as Teubert. 68 hits in 24gp when his skating is obviously below NHL level is impressive. I shudder to think what he could do to us if he fixed his skating playing in Calgary. Not worth the risk imo. That is why I'd prefer to give them a potential puck mover like Marincin or Gernat. I am not as worried about Calgary scoring on us as I am about them hurting our guys.
in 12:38 TOI per game. Over 82 games he would be easily in the top 5 for hits. That many hits starts to take a toll on division rivals, and ultimately helps the Oilers.
I know when I play I get annoyed and frustrated when a guy keeps hitting me every time we play. Its more psychological than physical

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07-25-2012, 01:05 PM
  #105
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What's to commit? It's 2 years. There is no bromance, people just want less of the garbage that played on this team last year.
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As other posters have pointed out, his caphit isn't much of a concern.

The only pitfall here is giving Calgary good pieces to speed along their inevitable re-build. I'm definitely not ok with giving them anything more than a 2nd round pick and a middling prospect for what will amount to 2 years of J-Bo.
The concern is that a better piece becomes available over the next two years that we want to lock up for an extended period of time. Next year we have lots of contracts (Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Smid, Whitney(?), MPS(?), Lander(?)) that we need to decide what to do with, not to mention some prospects that will be challenging for a position. I would rather hold-off than make any hasty changes to the commitment to a solid rebuild.

As for a $7M caphit for 2 years not being a concern??? That takes away the ability to add an ALL-STAR player at any point in time over the next two years. Not to mention the point you made of giving Calgary a prospect...let them suffer.

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07-25-2012, 01:08 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Just to jump into your conversation because I was arguing against Teubert to Calgary. No he is not untouchable. But I don't want to give him to a division rival either. We may have better d prospects, but none are as physical as Teubert. 68 hits in 24gp when his skating is obviously below NHL level is impressive. I shudder to think what he could do to us if he fixed his skating playing in Calgary. Not worth the risk imo. That is why I'd prefer to give them a potential puck mover like Marincin or Gernat. I am not as worried about Calgary scoring on us as I am about them hurting our guys.
I'm not at all concerned about that, so that's that I guess.

Look, physical defensive defensemen are essential. I don't see anything in Teubert to indicate he'll become one of those. For every Matt Greene and Jason Smith (who wasn't a bad skater and had top-notch hockey sense, something Teubert notably lacks) there's dozens upon dozens of guys who top out as AHL journeymen. You certainly can't let something that might happen five or more years down the road stand in the way of your efforts to improve the team now.

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07-25-2012, 01:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by missedpicks View Post
The concern is that a better piece becomes available over the next two years that we want to lock up for an extended period of time. Next year we have lots of contracts (Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Smid, Whitney(?), MPS(?), Lander(?)) that we need to decide what to do with, not to mention some prospects that will be challenging for a position. I would rather hold-off than make any hasty changes to the commitment to a solid rebuild.

As for a $7M caphit for 2 years not being a concern??? That takes away the ability to add an ALL-STAR player at any point in time over the next two years. Not to mention the point you made of giving Calgary a prospect...let them suffer.
We've been waiting for all-stars to fall into our laps for how long now?

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:20 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
We've been waiting for all-stars to fall into our laps for how long now?
Didn't we just draft a bunch?

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:21 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missedpicks View Post
The concern is that a better piece becomes available over the next two years that we want to lock up for an extended period of time. Next year we have lots of contracts (Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Smid, Whitney(?), MPS(?), Lander(?)) that we need to decide what to do with, not to mention some prospects that will be challenging for a position. I would rather hold-off than make any hasty changes to the commitment to a solid rebuild.

As for a $7M caphit for 2 years not being a concern??? That takes away the ability to add an ALL-STAR player at any point in time over the next two years. Not to mention the point you made of giving Calgary a prospect...let them suffer.
The $7M cap hit for two years isn't a concern though ... you don't think you could ditch that contract if you needed to? You can trade JayBo in two minutes if you don't want anything substantial back. It's not like he's gonna be over the hill in the next two years.

As for letting Calgary suffer, I agree. That's my biggest concern. It's not receiving JayBo - it's not giving anything to Calgary that will benefit them.

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:26 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by missedpicks View Post
As for a $7M caphit for 2 years not being a concern??? That takes away the ability to add an ALL-STAR player at any point in time over the next two years. Not to mention the point you made of giving Calgary a prospect...let them suffer.
Well the next year is a wash. If we can somehow add JayBo I doubt they are looking to add much else for next season. Then the season after we will still have plenty of cap space even with Hall and Eberle getting significant raises. You have to remember the raises that Hall & Ebs are likely to recieve will only add on about 7 million in total cap space from their cap hits right now.

-Currently we have 7 million in cap space for next season
-Salary would likely get moved back for JayBo
-We clear up 11M in significant expiring contracts and Souray's buyout for next season

We could easily handle JayBo's cap hit for this season and next.

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:33 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Didn't we just draft a bunch?
Well, only one so far has made the all-star team.

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Well, only one so far has made the all-star team.
All-star game=Old boys club.

Hey Getzlaf, you're having a pretty terrible season. Wanna participate in the all-star game this year?

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:39 PM
  #113
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Well, only one so far has made the all-star team.
Wasn't there a report that the NHL told Nuge he would have been included had he been healthy?

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:50 PM
  #114
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Bob Stauffer suggests that Teubert is projected to be a 6-7dman in his prime...

if that deal is on the table for JayBo you have to take it...

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07-25-2012, 01:51 PM
  #115
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Wasn't there a report that the NHL told Nuge he would have been included had he been healthy?
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...me-contention/

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Old
07-25-2012, 01:52 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Didn't we just draft a bunch?
d-men?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
Bob Stauffer suggests that Teubert is projected to be a 6-7dman in his prime...

if that deal is on the table for JayBo you have to take it...
From day one the Oil had him pegged as a bottom pairing d-man.

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Old
07-25-2012, 02:07 PM
  #117
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The $7M cap hit for two years isn't a concern though ... you don't think you could ditch that contract if you needed to? You can trade JayBo in two minutes if you don't want anything substantial back. It's not like he's gonna be over the hill in the next two years.

As for letting Calgary suffer, I agree. That's my biggest concern. It's not receiving JayBo - it's not giving anything to Calgary that will benefit them.
You still would have had to trade some important pieces to get him in the first place. Trading for JayBo, then further down to "nothing substantial" doesn't seem like a viable trading strategy.

Quote:
We've been waiting for all-stars to fall into our laps for how long now?
Great players didn't want to come to Edmonton because our team was on the way down. I really doubt we will have the same problems over the next few years attracting talent to play here.

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07-25-2012, 02:19 PM
  #118
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You still would have had to trade some important pieces to get him in the first place. Trading for JayBo, then further down to "nothing substantial" doesn't seem like a viable trading strategy.



Great players didn't want to come to Edmonton because our team was on the way down. I really doubt we will have the same problems over the next few years attracting talent to play here.
Depends on your definition of "important pieces". If those pieces are Teubert and a 3rd round pick, I don't think that's substantial. Where does Teubert slot in on the depth chart as far as D prospects go? (Not saying I want rid of him - just saying his value is minimal).

And the scenario where you trade not much now for JayBo and then trade him for nothing isn't mine - or likely management's either. There's really only a couple of scenarios where he can't play and contribute to the Oilers this coming season and the one after. One of those scenarios is a major injury and Bouwmeester is a proven ironman (of sorts). The other scenario - the one presented - is that better options come along within the next two years. While this is possible, I think it's unlikely. But in that unlikely event, I'm sure the Oilers would gladly - and easily - ditch him for an upgrade. Within the next two seasons, at least half the league would want JayBo if they didn't have to give up much to get him.

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07-25-2012, 02:24 PM
  #119
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I find it really difficult to believe that adding a 25 minute a night, tough assignment defender wouldn't help the Oilers simply because he's not "gritty" enough.

As for finding a guy who can play lots of minutes in every situation and bring a high level of grit, well, that'll cost you about $100 million these days.



Should we put our trust in Jay Feaster's ability to evaluate players?



He might be all those things but he's still better than just about anything else on the Oilers and if he's on the market, it's worth exploring. If he came to Edmonton, he'd be playing with more talent than he's seen at any point in his career: I have little doubt he'd show better than he has so far.
So you agree that he's overhyped, overpaid, and scared of contact... but that's all ok because he's better than anything else on the Oilers? Really? I'd rather take Smid, Schultz x2, Whitney (healthy), and Petry over J-Bo any day of the week personally.

My point is that i'd rather not settle for a 6.8 million dollar "meh he's ok, but a overpaid/overhyped/scared of contact" type of player.

Yes we need another player to shore up our D, but lets not get desperate here. Seriously...opposing players deliberately dump the puck in his end on purpose.

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07-25-2012, 02:27 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
d-men?
Oh..sorry. I thought you were talking about players in general.

We do still have all star possiblilities with Petry and Schultz in the future though.

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07-25-2012, 02:29 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
So you agree that he's overhyped, overpaid, and scared of contact... but that's all ok because he's better than anything else on the Oilers? Really? I'd rather take Smid, Schultz x2, Whitney (healthy), and Petry over J-Bo any day of the week personally.

My point is that i'd rather not settle for a 6.8 million dollar "meh he's ok, but a overpaid/overhyped/scared of contact" type of player.

Yes we need another player to shore up our D, but lets not get desperate here. Seriously...opposing players deliberately dump the puck in his end on purpose.
Ya he's afraid of contact that's the stupidest comment I've heard in a long time.

The guy hits about 3x more than Whitney but Jbo is the guy scared of contact.

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07-25-2012, 02:39 PM
  #122
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So you agree that he's overhyped, overpaid, and scared of contact... but that's all ok because he's better than anything else on the Oilers? Really?
No, I don't agree. Overpaid, yes. certainly not overrated. Scared of contact? Meh, I've seen this same criticism leveled at a lot of quality players (see Penner, Dustin). I don't put much stock in it.

Quote:
My point is that i'd rather not settle for a 6.8 million dollar "meh he's ok, but a overpaid/overhyped/scared of contact" type of player. Yes we need another player to shore up our D, but lets not get desperate here
So what would you do instead?

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07-25-2012, 02:43 PM
  #123
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anyone thinking we should make a play for pk subban? maybe hemsky + +

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07-25-2012, 02:53 PM
  #124
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anyone thinking we should make a play for pk subban? maybe hemsky + +
Hemsky won't get you anything but a pick.If we want to get PK Subban,we would have to move Sam Gagner.

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07-25-2012, 02:55 PM
  #125
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Hemsky won't get you anything but a pick.If we want to get PK Subban,we would have to move Sam Gagner.
Gagner wont get you Subban LOL.

Gagner + Marincin/Musil + Pitlick might get a conversation started.

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