HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Does anybody else think we need to hire a few more scouts to find Defenders?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-24-2012, 10:06 PM
  #26
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,446
vCash: 50
The Flyers need to start drafting defensemen in the first round as well. I understand the concept of picking the best player available, but enough is enough. They've been hoping third rounders will turn out for too long. If you want elite talent, you have to draft it when it's available. They may not get a Weber type in the 20-30 range, but they'll certainly get someone better than Bourdon, Manning, or Gus.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 10:08 PM
  #27
Couturier Post
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 144
vCash: 500
Flyers are terrible at drafting defensemen. Fun fact: The last time the Flyers drafted a defenseman, developed him, and then did NOT immediately trade him in his first few years in the league, it was Chris Therien. Seriously.

Couturier Post is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 10:45 PM
  #28
turkinaa
Registered User
 
turkinaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 915
vCash: 500
I think that since we haven't been patient enough with our prospect D or G, we tend to trade them away or fail to develop them. Forwards are just easier and not having 2nd round picks do hurt, but even the D we've taken in the top ... well ... 90% of the D we take regardless of the round get traded before they should be or fail to make an impact. Even in a D and G heavy draft we take players who might not make it. They need to stop hunting for diamonds in the rough or typical Flyer type players and take players that actually have a chance.

turkinaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 11:02 PM
  #29
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 10,122
vCash: 539
couldve taken hamilton over couturier.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 11:15 PM
  #30
djlethal08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Hockessin, DE
Country: United States
Posts: 109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
couldve taken hamilton over couturier.
Couturier is the better player and was the right choice. Hamilton would've been a great pick as well, but you can't pass it up when a guy like Couturier falls to you.

djlethal08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2012, 11:17 PM
  #31
Amateur Hour
Registered User
 
Amateur Hour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Negadelphia
Posts: 6,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
couldve taken hamilton over couturier.
I'd be lying if I said this thought didn't cross my mind essentially every time I think of Couturier or his name comes up. As much as I love the kid and think he's a special player, it would be just our luck if Hamilton goes on to be that franchise defenseman the Flyers so desperately need.

Amateur Hour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 12:10 AM
  #32
BillDineen
Registered User
 
BillDineen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Acquiring L Schenn is equivalent to having a young top pick d man and having to go through the ups and downs. I have no problem with the Flyers drafting or scouting. They could trade Couturier for a good young D man right now as well, but fans would be balling their eyes out crying.

BillDineen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 12:31 AM
  #33
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,618
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
The scouting is not the problem. The lack of patience is the major flaw with the organization.
plenty of patience with the forwards.
defense? not so much. the fanbase is like this as well.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 12:38 AM
  #34
BillDineen
Registered User
 
BillDineen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
plenty of patience with the forwards.
defense? not so much. the fanbase is like this as well.
He was traded for, but Meszaros is an example. Drafted in the first round of 2004, started out great, struggle in Tampa, then was excellent his first season and took a step back last year and he is part of EVERY trade proposal. Why do fans want to trade him? I find it bizarre, outside of him being a UFA in two summers, I am puzzled.

Would it be different if the Flyers drafted him? I doubt it. Flyers are tremendous at drafting forwards, but fans still don't have patience with them (see JVR). D take longer to develop.

BillDineen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 12:52 AM
  #35
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,618
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
He was traded for, but Meszaros is an example. Drafted in the first round of 2004, started out great, struggle in Tampa, then was excellent his first season and took a step back last year and he is part of EVERY trade proposal. Why do fans want to trade him? I find it bizarre, outside of him being a UFA in two summers, I am puzzled.

Would it be different if the Flyers drafted him? I doubt it. Flyers are tremendous at drafting forwards, but fans still don't have patience with them (see JVR). D take longer to develop.
I really was only willing to deal Meszaros if it meant getting Weber. I think Meszaros was playing hurt all last year before he finally couldnt deal with the pain anymore. People ragged on him all year and like many Flyer fans they conviently forget about injuries. Back injuries suck. It effects the way you skate, breathe and move.
I am willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He was good here in 2010/11.
if hes healthy there is little reason he cant return to form of that season.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 06:36 AM
  #36
chimrichalds18
the key
 
chimrichalds18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,769
vCash: 500
It's not the scouts it's the organization's lack of patience, and it's a detriment to the club, I think. It's becoming more and more important to bring up dmen within your system, and it's going to become even more important if they change UFA years. We rely too much on other clubs' defensemen.

Here's a question. Post-2000, what defensemen drafted/brought up in the organization has the most games played (I mean someone who started in our club post-2000)?







Randy Jones

chimrichalds18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 09:08 AM
  #37
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,230
vCash: 500
The only D men I can recall from memory that we drafted from the late 80's onward that became legit regulars in the NHL has been Bundy, Yushkevich, Pitkanen, Seidenberg, and it's looking like Sbisa will be one. Mark Eaton was an undrafted free agent and he has had an ok career. Tertyshyny was definitely very promising. Niinimaa became a regular for the most part but didn't last too long in the league. Bourdon and Gus look pretty good. Vandermeer seemed promising as an undrafted FA but is a marginal player now. I may be missing some players....

Bottom line is we have yet to develop an all star caliber D man....

PS: Not even going to get into the debacles that were Jiri Latel, Rumble and countless others!


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 07-25-2012 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Foster error
FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 09:44 AM
  #38
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
The Flyers need to start drafting defensemen in the first round as well. I understand the concept of picking the best player available, but enough is enough. They've been hoping third rounders will turn out for too long. If you want elite talent, you have to draft it when it's available. They may not get a Weber type in the 20-30 range, but they'll certainly get someone better than Bourdon, Manning, or Gus.

I think you're right that BPA has a lot to do with it, but there is a lot of good sense behind what the Flyers have done over recent years. If the Flyers consider BPA to be "best player available" more than "best prospect available," that's going to lead you towards drafting a lot more forwards than defenseman because the forwards are much further along in their development at age 18 than the d-men are.

That's also why it's safer to draft/develop forwards through your own system and get the veteran d-men elsewhere. It also means you are getting more of the forward's prime years covered by ELC/RFA compensation. A defenseman is more likely to hit his peak at late-RFA / early-UFA age. So that means you could spend 6 or 7 years on draft and development only to see him blossom elsewhere.


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 07-25-2012 at 09:49 AM.
Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 12:20 PM
  #39
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I think you're right that BPA has a lot to do with it, but there is a lot of good sense behind what the Flyers have done over recent years. If the Flyers consider BPA to be "best player available" more than "best prospect available," that's going to lead you towards drafting a lot more forwards than defenseman because the forwards are much further along in their development at age 18 than the d-men are.

That's also why it's safer to draft/develop forwards through your own system and get the veteran d-men elsewhere. It also means you are getting more of the forward's prime years covered by ELC/RFA compensation. A defenseman is more likely to hit his peak at late-RFA / early-UFA age. So that means you could spend 6 or 7 years on draft and development only to see him blossom elsewhere.
Thanks for your excellent points.

BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 12:57 PM
  #40
Appleyard
Registered User
 
Appleyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manc/Shef/Utrecht
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 5,297
vCash: 165
Guys like Bodrov, and Lehtivuori were great picks IMO, just unfortunate circumstances meant they have not became what they could. Both had great upside.

Bourdon is NHL calibre, Marshall just under it.

Sbisa and Pitkanen are our only 2 first rounders in last 10 years... both are damn solid NHL d men now.

If you look at our 1-3 draft picks and the hit to miss ratio we are about in line with the NHL percentage wise, most teams benifited from drafting a d man or two in the 2003 draft... we only drafted 1 dman then... Picard.

We just don't draft D often enough early on... but it is all luck anyway.

Appleyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 10:11 PM
  #41
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Guys like Bodrov, and Lehtivuori were great picks IMO, just unfortunate circumstances meant they have not became what they could. Both had great upside.

Bourdon is NHL calibre, Marshall just under it.

Sbisa and Pitkanen are our only 2 first rounders in last 10 years... both are damn solid NHL d men now.

If you look at our 1-3 draft picks and the hit to miss ratio we are about in line with the NHL percentage wise, most teams benifited from drafting a d man or two in the 2003 draft... we only drafted 1 dman then... Picard.

We just don't draft D often enough early on... but it is all luck anyway.
Ah yes..Picard..showed some promise. Wish we could have kept Sbisa.....he's starting to round out now. Pitkanen has become a solid minutes guy. It's a shame the fans soured on him but for whatever reason after his rookie year where he was mean he became sort of aloof. I think he was having a hard time adjusting to the culture and language still from what I remember......

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2012, 10:49 AM
  #42
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I think you're right that BPA has a lot to do with it, but there is a lot of good sense behind what the Flyers have done over recent years. If the Flyers consider BPA to be "best player available" more than "best prospect available," that's going to lead you towards drafting a lot more forwards than defenseman because the forwards are much further along in their development at age 18 than the d-men are.

That's also why it's safer to draft/develop forwards through your own system and get the veteran d-men elsewhere. It also means you are getting more of the forward's prime years covered by ELC/RFA compensation. A defenseman is more likely to hit his peak at late-RFA / early-UFA age. So that means you could spend 6 or 7 years on draft and development only to see him blossom elsewhere.
I would rather rely on free agent defenseman than free agent forwards, but in a capped league it's tough when you can't develop anyone from your top six. They end up allocating too many dollars to defense.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2012, 11:07 AM
  #43
jweiner
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 19
vCash: 500
That pick we traded for Steve Eminger? Turned into John Carlson.

Flyers, draft and defense just don't belong in the same sentence in any situation.

jweiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.