HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Poll: Doan Vs. Semin

View Poll Results: Doan or Semin
Doan 132 58.41%
Semin 62 27.43%
Neither of Them 32 14.16%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-25-2012, 01:41 PM
  #51
Narbo
Registered User
 
Narbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 21
vCash: 500
Semin and Doan produce at similar offensive levels. Granted Semin had more support and better offensive teammates, so his numbers "look" a tad better. In my books, with similar ice time, they would both produce at the same rate in Montreal, namely 50-60pts.

However.....

Doan will make you accountable for your actions on the ice, both his own teammates and the opposition. He'll play through injuries and sacrifice his body to win.

Semin does not like to be held accountable for his actions on the ice, either from his own teammates or opposition. He won't play through injuries or sacrifice anything to win.

Rightly or wrongly, Semin has been labled both a locker room cancer and a coach killer. No team is interested in signing him right now for more than one year, until "they get to know him better", to steal a quote from Jim Rutherford.

Doan would benefit our organization in so many more ways than Semin could ever hope to. Therrien would play Shane to death, while Semin would be more likely to return to Russia than play for such a demanding coach.

Narbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 01:41 PM
  #52
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post
It's probably already been discussed in another topic, but why exactly would Doan come here? At his age, he's looking for a cup, not for a rebuild.
The same people who say Doan has "character" and "wants to win" believe he'll come to the 3rd worst team in the NHL.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 01:47 PM
  #53
Narbo
Registered User
 
Narbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 21
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The same people who say Doan has "character" and "wants to win" believe he'll come to the 3rd worst team in the NHL.
How many Cups have the Flyers won since the 70's? Because every player that signs there says it's because they want to win.

Previous records / finishes mean nothing to players, it's the organization / managements commitment to winning above all else that attracts players.

We cleaned house with the folks who iced that team you reference, and we've filled it with a lot of people today's NHL like and respect.

Narbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 01:59 PM
  #54
Ceux de Montreal
Horrible proposal!!!
 
Ceux de Montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: omg montréal lolzzz
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Doan... not close. I think he will fit our team better, and while he won't look as pretty doing it, he'll still score at about the same pace as I think Semin would under our coaching staff.

But I think you probably have to pay either player more than that to come here.

I would take either of them at the proposed price, though. While I think Doan is a better player, it doesn't mean I wouldn't want Semin.

Let's sign both.
We are one top-six forward from being a bubble (playoff) team. Sign those two and we have a shot to win it all IMO.

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Doan
Cole - Plekanec - Semin
Bourque - Eller - Gionta
Moen - Prust - Armstrong

Extra: White

Ceux de Montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:03 PM
  #55
Bacchus1
Registered User
 
Bacchus1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seoul, Korea
Posts: 601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Kovalev could be depended upon to contribute 65 points a year. He made our offense respectable, and was the leading reason we had the 2007-08 season, the best Habs team since since the 1993 stanley cup win.

This team could use another Kovalev.
Sheldon Souray and a bunch of other players say hello.

Not going to diss Kovalev, but he played when he wanted. He would light it up some nights, and other times he would miss back checks, or d plays that would lead to goals against. We wanted more from him, and he couldn't deliver.

Bacchus1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:07 PM
  #56
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
Not going to diss Kovalev ... We wanted more from him, and he couldn't deliver.
That is true of every single player in every sport. Fans always want more.

Did I want 60 goal, 130 point seasons out of Kovalev? Absolutely.

However we need to be realistic. We got what we paid for: a 65 point player, and our best offensive forward in his time here.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:21 PM
  #57
DenverHabsFan
Registered User
 
DenverHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,140
vCash: 500
Semin because he can probably be signed under his real value.

The hate he gets is over the top. I thought he was strong in the playoffs. It's hard to shine when all the games are 1-0 or 2-1. His point totals are more a reflection of WAS's coaching than a lack of effort. The Caps should not be playing that insane trap and playing guys like Ovechkin and Semin 12-15 minutes a game.

Unfortunately, the question is moot as I don't believe MB will extend an offer.

DenverHabsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:24 PM
  #58
Ceux de Montreal
Horrible proposal!!!
 
Ceux de Montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: omg montréal lolzzz
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Semin because he can probably be signed under his real value.

The hate he gets is over the top. I thought he was strong in the playoffs. It's hard to shine when all the games are 1-0 or 2-1. His point totals are more a reflection of WAS's coaching than a lack of effort. The Caps should not be playing that insane trap and playing guys like Ovechkin and Semin 12-15 minutes a game.
QFMT

Quoted for mother****ing truth.

Ceux de Montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:25 PM
  #59
Bacchus1
Registered User
 
Bacchus1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seoul, Korea
Posts: 601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
That is true of every single player in every sport. Fans always want more.

Did I want 60 goal, 130 point seasons out of Kovalev? Absolutely.

However we need to be realistic. We got what we paid for: a 65 point player, and our best offensive forward in his time here.
Not more points; more effort. There is more to hockey than scoring points, right.

Bacchus1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:29 PM
  #60
GoodKiwi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Georgia
Posts: 8,795
vCash: 500
Doan and it's not close.

GoodKiwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:29 PM
  #61
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
Not more points; more effort. There is more to hockey than scoring points, right.
No, the only thing that really matters in hockey is outscoring your opponents. Kovalev did this through his excellent hard work on the PK and his consistent role as the team's number 1 offensive forward.

The next best thing are beautiful plays and/or fights, to make the fans happy. Think Lars Eller's 4th goal, or Brad Staubitz beating up Labrie. Kovalev gave us beautiful plays on a regular basis.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:35 PM
  #62
DenverHabsFan
Registered User
 
DenverHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,140
vCash: 500
I don't get those who advocate not improving the team because, according to their reasoning, it won't make a difference and we're not a contender anyway.

MB's job is to put together the best team he can given the existing contracts. It's more exciting to compete until the last game of the season and have a chance to get in the playoffs. Then if we make it and win a round against the Bruins, then the players get a taste of what it is to win in this city. Otherwise, we're encouraging a losing attitude.

If we compete till the end and don't make the playoffs, it's still better than knowing in January that the team is in the lottery. And playing one round sure beats watching other teams play for an extra two months.

If we're thinking in terms of draft positioning, we have no chance of finishing behind CBJ so we're not getting the big prize. We're looking at a pick in the 10-20 range and I trust TT will make the most of it.

DenverHabsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 02:37 PM
  #63
Bacchus1
Registered User
 
Bacchus1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seoul, Korea
Posts: 601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
No, the only thing that really matters in hockey is outscoring your opponents. Kovalev did this through his excellent hard work on the PK and his consistent role as the team's number 1 offensive forward.

The next best thing are beautiful plays and/or fights, to make the fans happy. Think Lars Eller's 4th goal, or Brad Staubitz beating up Labrie. Kovalev gave us beautiful plays on a regular basis.
Yes, and so even outscoring requires more than just points. It includes defence. And as you pointed out, fighting, and I would add checking. There are a ton of components, and Kovalev didn't bring enough.

BTW, the fact that Kovy was playing PK is just sad ... but that is another ball of wax.

Hybridize Kovalev and Koivu, and then you have a friggin' player.

Kovalev's hit on Tucker, though -- one for the ages.

Bacchus1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 03:04 PM
  #64
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
Not more points; more effort. There is more to hockey than scoring points, right.
Players like Kovalev or Semin get criticized too much on the issue of effort. Its the type of game they play. Kovalev for instance would slow down the play to a crawl (looking lazy) only to do some lightning quick stuff instants later, dazzling opponents and unleashing a deadly wrister. It was a game of patience and skill for him, not non-stop chicken without a head ''give your 110%!!!'' game.

Kovalev gave plenty of effort and won dozens of games for the team. Sure he did not look like he was skating for his life like guys like Higgins were all the time, so he looked like he did not go at 100%. Being a gracious skater doesn't help perceived effort, and it doesn't help opinions on Russians that most are gracious skaters.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 03:12 PM
  #65
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,095
vCash: 500
Neither . I really think Gauthier's blockbuster trades are going to Pan out :sarcasm

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 03:12 PM
  #66
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 18,693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
We are one top-six forward from being a bubble (playoff) team. Sign those two and we have a shot to win it all IMO.

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Doan
Cole - Plekanec - Semin
Bourque - Eller - Gionta
Moen - Prust - Armstrong

Extra: White
Yeah, at those price points for Semin and Doan, how could we refuse? We'd still have $800k cap space on the below roster, with one extra player still included. I think it would take more than $5M to actually sign Doan, though, so that extra space would really be needed. But if I had a line on getting both those players, I'd find a way to make the space.


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Shane Doan ($5.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Alexander Semin ($5.000m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Brian Gionta ($5.000m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Rene Bourque ($3.333m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Colby Armstrong ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m)
Petteri Nokelainen ($0.575m) / Ryan White ($0.688m)
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($4.000m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Yannick Weber ($0.850m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,370,833; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $829,167

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 03:18 PM
  #67
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Doan is more likely to decline over the 2 years than to improve or remain at his peak. Although players age unequally, I'd suggest comparing Kaberle as he is now with when he was a Leaf. IMO the Habs wouldn't get their money's worth if they outbid all the other teams vying to sign Doan.
Kaberle's stark decline wasn't precipitated by aging, like Gomez, it was a combination of suspect work habits catching up to them and unwillingness/inability to adapt their game (you could arguably add "unwillingness to pay the price physically" imo).

Doan's impact and consistency aren't so reliant on physical assets as they are on compete-level and hockey sense. Besides, his remarkable track record of staying healthy (13 straight seasons of 72+games, 7 of those years 80+) backs his reputation for having an excellent work ethic and professionalism.

Baring injury, I'd say that at 36 & 37, Doan is still a safe bet to be a 20+g/50+pt player, while adding all of the intangibles & physical commitment. Not to mention that he'd be playing with the best playmaking centre (be it Pleks or DD) he's had in over a decade, and that he's looking at his last few NHL seasons... after this past post-season going deeper than he's ever been (and seeing how intensely fired up he clearly was), you gotta imagine that this guy will be ubber-motivated to make the most out of whatever situation he's going to AND that he's going to pick a place where he sees himself helping get over the top.

Semin's going to the highest bidder it would seem, whereas in Doan's case, I think you're investing in a bit more than a gun-for-hire.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 03:19 PM
  #68
Rosso Scuderia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
Care to expand? I think he is exactly like Kovalev, in that he has all the skills but lacks the consistency, heart, and determination. He was called the artist because hockey was more beauty to him that winning. I don't know what drives Semin, but it doesn't seem to be much. Also, why isn't he being held on to by the Caps. It is easy to cast about aspersions, another thing to write your opinion clearly.

So what makes you think that Semin is all that and a bowl of grits?
I still don't see the Kovalev comparaison. People compared them just because they are Russians. Kovalev's game is different to Semin. Kovalev is much stronger physically than Semin. Kovalev is much more vocal and likes the spotlight in front of the media and inside the lockeroom while Semin is much more reserved, he just do his own thing which is scoring a bunch of goals.

Yeah Semin lacks consistency at time... and if he was, it would be a 50g+ scorer but Semin, with all the flaws he has, he can easily pots 30 goals in a decent season for him.. a really, really, really bad season for Semin, he can easily give you 20-25g. Who knows a brand new environment, management giving him trust and making him feel welcome, Semin will have no problem to become once again a 40g scorer and let's face it, we all know he IS still capable of scoring 40g.. even 50g if all the stars are aligned for him.

Also, the word consistency is being way overused here. Who care if he lacks consistency if the guy, at the end of the year, will give you 30goals? There's no 30 goals scorer that will score 1 goal every 3 games throughout the whole season.

What I want about Semin, if he comes here, is that he can score 30g, about 5-6 winning goal, plays on the PK at time, responsible defensively and that's it. I don't need grit from him, I don't need leadership, other players can cover that. Semin will be here to give us the (much needed) offensive support, that's it because offense can help you win game too.

Rosso Scuderia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 03:58 PM
  #69
LaTenderness
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
Doan can score goals in front of the net that Semin can only dream about.

186 goals in the last 6 years playing run and gun style (except the last 2 years) with a bunch of super skilled guys vs. Doan who plays in a very defensive system in Phoenix. Can't compare. I love people who uses stats to prove their points. Funny that since Washington adopted a more defensive game in the past 2 years, Semin as seriously regressed stat wise. Go ahead, manage a team by just looking at stats, you would be pilling lottery picks.
How many times has Doan scored over 30 goals in his entire career ???

The guy isn't close to Semin in goal scoring ability and I don't need stats to show you that. However you don't care how skilled the young sniper is all you care about is that he's Russian so he must be heartless.

I don't care how many garbage goals Doan got from in front of the net the bottom line is Semin is better at playing hockey.

LaTenderness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 04:02 PM
  #70
Player 61
#Winning
 
Player 61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,122
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Player 61
See Avatar! :-)

Player 61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #71
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,075
vCash: 500
Doan.... if he was a year younger.

So, neither.

MXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 04:40 PM
  #72
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,079
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Semin is more useful in actually make the POs tho.

Doan is awesome but what we need to complete the top6 is skill more than brute strenght. We also need a good powerplay guy and Semin is just that.
I'd much rather have a team built for playoff success rather than regular season success. Also, the guy needed on the PP is already there and that's Markov.

Fozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 05:06 PM
  #73
Quarantesix
#Galchenyuk
 
Quarantesix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal
Posts: 4,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
Care to expand? I think he is exactly like Kovalev, in that he has all the skills but lacks the consistency, heart, and determination. He was called the artist because hockey was more beauty to him that winning. I don't know what drives Semin, but it doesn't seem to be much. Also, why isn't he being held on to by the Caps. It is easy to cast about aspersions, another thing to write your opinion clearly.

So what makes you think that Semin is all that and a bowl of grits?
Semin is just a better hockey player.

Quarantesix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 05:23 PM
  #74
HabsUK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
Semin >>> Doan > Neither

Having Semins shot on the PP alone would be worth the $5 million.

HabsUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2012, 05:25 PM
  #75
JSBach
Registered User
 
JSBach's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,555
vCash: 500
Semin. 2 years would be a good trial run and if he doesn't perform, see ya. Doan would be a pointless signing because he wouldn't really help us get better, and he's old. Semin might actually have something to offer for the future of the team.

JSBach is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.