I have always liked the team that played the hardest,not scrappiest,not fanciest.The Team that played the hardest every player,scorers,penalty killers no matter what name.Those were the Stanley Cup winning Montreal Canadien teams,the ones that every play,goal,assist,save and PK won the Cup.That's the reason the names of all the personnel go on the Cup,everybody has to buy in, nobody rides for free.
seeing doan in the playoffs makes me want him if there was a choice (i'd rather tank myself). the guy had killer in his eyes in that kings series. he was going to rip off dustin browns head during the handshakes.
Both on the same contract for two years? I take Doan and it's not even close.
But the reality is that Doan is very unlikely to sign in Montreal unless he gets a lot of money and 3, maybe even 4 years. That's too much of a risk for the Habs.
I would however sign Semin on a two year deal at $5M per season. Low risk, possibly high reward. I would NOT sign him long term though.
Given they both are offered identical 2 year, $10 million contract, who would you prefer for the habs?
Okay, on those terms, I might be willing to choose Doan. But let's be reality, not even in today's cap environment does it make sense to pay him something like $2 million/year more than Plekanec. They'd be competing for almost the exact same minutes, and I think Plekanec can beat him for those minutes these days. So, why downgrade that position/role and/or pay more for less? If it's for his leadership alone, that'd be a waste, imo.
There's a team out there that will benefit from adding Doan to their lineup, for sure. I just don't think Montreal makes the best, nor easiest, fit. We could use better wingers, so if we're talking about making a "more serious" investment than ~$5 million/year, I'd start leaning toward Semin, I think.
Okay, on those terms, I might be willing to choose Doan. But let's be reality, not even in today's cap environment does it make sense to pay him something like $2 million/year more than Plekanec. They'd be competing for almost the exact same minutes, and I think Plekanec can beat him for those minutes these days. So, why downgrade that position/role and/or pay more for less? If it's for his leadership alone, that'd be a waste, imo.
There's a team out there that will benefit from adding Doan to their lineup, for sure. I just don't think Montreal makes the best, nor easiest, fit. We could use better wingers, so if we're talking about making a "more serious" investment than ~$5 million/year, I'd start leaning toward Semin, I think.
Isn't Doan mostly a right winger? I think he can play center but hasn't in years. Its Cole's minutes he would compete for. Those and Gionta's.. Semin being a left winger makes him more valuable to the Habs.
Isn't Doan mostly a right winger? I think he can play center but hasn't in years. Its Cole's minutes he would compete for. Those and Gionta's.. Semin being a left winger makes him more valuable to the Habs.
Actually, I think you're right. I certainly don't see him taking many draws these days. That would take a bit of the battle for redundancy out of Plekanec's court, but it wouldn't change my notion of how much I'd be willing to go out and toss at such a player in FA. I mean, that kind of money and I'm hoping to put something closer to a Parise next to Plekanec (if we're possibly talking about possibly building a super hybrid top 6/top defensive assignments line, or whatever); not Doan. Anything over $5 mil, even over the short term, is just... I dunno... I'd feel kinda *****. Since that's probably censored, maybe I should have said violently physically sexually assaulted instead.
Agreed that LW may prove to be the weak side, and most in need of bolstering.
edit: Having said all that, if moving Gionta was part of the equation, and taking on a bit of extra salary to put Doan in that role instead was what had to happen, I think I'd be for that. I'd say no to moving Cole, and it would take one of the two being involved to get such a deal done, I'm sure.
Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 07-25-2012 at 09:11 PM.
We need a Semin type of player more than we need a Doan type, we already have Cole and Pacioretty who bring similar elements to what Doan brings but they're also younger and cheaper (it appears at least basing on what Doan is asking). You can't have a top 6 built in the same way, you need some versatility and some skill, that's why I'd sign Semin before Doan.
We need a Semin type of player more than we need a Doan type, we already have Cole and Pacioretty who bring similar elements to what Doan brings but they're also younger and cheaper (it appears at least basing on what Doan is asking). You can't have a top 6 built in the same way, you need some versatility and some skill, that's why I'd sign Semin before Doan.
We need a Semin type of player more than we need a Doan type, we already have Cole and Pacioretty who bring similar elements to what Doan brings but they're also younger and cheaper (it appears at least basing on what Doan is asking). You can't have a top 6 built in the same way, you need some versatility and some skill, that's why I'd sign Semin before Doan.
so if could clone Patches and Cole for the second line you wouldn't?
You can't have enough big tough power forwards.
Doan has character!
I'd know who I'd want on the ice in a game 7 with 2 minutes left down a goal and Price pulled.
THE problem that has had for years is we are not built for the playoff.
Talent is great, but when you need guys to step up, who can you really count on.
Doan is a leader, he's a guy you go to war with!
Semin is like Kostitsyn, turtle or flight.
A no Brainer.
We've done pretty well in the playoffs lately but we are always the lower seed, with horrible odds stacked against us. Worse, we missed them last year.
I know playoff warriors are great but they are only useful when you actually make it there.
so if could clone Patches and Cole for the second line you wouldn't?
You can't have enough big tough power forwards.
Doan has character!
I'd know who I'd want on the ice in a game 7 with 2 minutes left down a goal and Price pulled.
DD
Doan
Patches
Cole
Markov
Subban
Maybe. But I'd rather have Semin than Doan every time we're on the powerplay. It happens more often and would result in more wins.
In fact Semin can play the point on the powerplay. Markov-Semin anyone? Slapshots, wristshots, snapshots... Semin would be fed by Markov with nasty results
THE problem that has had for years is we are not built for the playoff.
Talent is great, but when you need guys to step up, who can you really count on.
Doan is a leader, he's a guy you go to war with!
Semin is like Kostitsyn, turtle or flight.
A no Brainer.
Okay, but at a certain price, if all you're looking for is the veteran playoff warrior winger, wouldn't you rather just keep Gionta instead of paying Doan more to probably play behind him in the depth chart? We're on the same page that he definitely wouldn't plug in ahead of Cole in the same chart, right? And Gionta has all those intangibles (but more rings...) for what could be millions/year less...
so if could clone Patches and Cole for the second line you wouldn't?
You can't have enough big tough power forwards.
Doan has character!
I'd know who I'd want on the ice in a game 7 with 2 minutes left down a goal and Price pulled.
DD
Doan
Patches
Cole
Markov
Subban
If this was last summer and we hadn't signed Erik Cole I would agree with you right no. But the thing is that you need players that mesh together but that also bring different elements to your team. A team (especially a team's top 6) has to be mixed so you don't become predictable, you need to have the other team guessing what your forwards are gonna do once they enter the offensive zone. I feel that adding Doan to our top 6 would certainly help it more than having Bourque out there, but I'm not convinced that it'd make our top 6 better than if put Semin in the same position. Semin has a lethal wrist shot (probably one of the most accurate in the league) and isn't a liability defensively either. Adding another gritty north-south forward would certainly help Plekanec but Doan is definitely not a long term option compared to Semin who could be here for 3-4 years and give us a consistent and honest production (55-65 pts). I think Doan has maybe 1-2 good years left to offer to a team and let's be honest here, we're no contenders as of now. We're in the same boat as 5-6 teams in the East, teams that are good enough to make the playoffs but can only hope to do a cinderella run. Semin unlike Doan could still be on the team when our prospects turn pro and that's when I believe we could be contenders.
Anyway, just a quick analysis on why I don't think Doan would produce a whole lot in Montreal playing on the second line with Plekanec and Gionta.
Last year, Shane Doan had 50 pts. Doan averaged 19:36 of TOI in Phoenix. In comparaison, that's more minutes than Desharnais, Pacioretty and Cole so his TOI would be reduced tremendously. He averaged 3:11 on the PP which is about the same as Desharnais, Pacioretty and Cole so again he wouldn't see as much PP time. You can also take in consideration the obvious age factor and add that to the style of play of utilizes, it's more of a gamble to offer him a multi-year contract than Semin imo.
We need a Semin type of player more than we need a Doan type, we already have Cole and Pacioretty who bring similar elements to what Doan brings but they're also younger and cheaper (it appears at least basing on what Doan is asking). You can't have a top 6 built in the same way, you need some versatility and some skill, that's why I'd sign Semin before Doan.
You don't ever don't need warriors. Isn't that we wanted, a team of warriors after all these years? While I like Max Pac and Cole as power forwards, they don't have much of a mean streak. Doan is all vinegar, he is all fire. While Max and Cole stick to playing their games, Doan will go into Boston and challenge these Ruins. He'll get into their faces. We've never had a guy playing on our first two lines like this in two generations. I think the last one was Shayne Corson or Claude Lemieux. He's a real leader, something this squad don't have.
I can't believe that this is a real question, and that some people voted Semin! Semin would be another Kovalev, but even more frustrating. Doan would be like a bigger slightly less skilled Koivu. I take heart and character over pure skill any day of the week.
I can't believe this is a debate. Semin, really???? The bad rap is real! You want a guy like AK that floats around, plays once every 5 games, doesn't show up in the playoffs because there is no money in for them....pick semin. If you want a guy that cares, puts his heart and soul into every game, can score, fight, goes to the net. There is simply no comparison. I am still shocked some of u want semin ahead of doan. Thank god your not GM.
You don't ever don't need warriors. Isn't that we wanted, a team of warriors after all these years? While I like Max Pac and Cole as power forwards, they don't have much of a mean streak. Doan is all vinegar, he is all fire. While Max and Cole stick to playing their games, Doan will go into Boston and challenge these Ruins. He'll get into their faces. We've never had a guy playing on our first two lines like this in two generations. I think the last one was Shayne Corson or Claude Lemieux. He's a real leader, something this squad don't have.
Do you really think someone like Shayne Corson or Claude Lemieux is worth tying up over 10% of your team's budget? If Doan came with a money back guarantee, it'd be one thing, but he doesn't and he may turn out to be far too expensive for what he actually brings, since he's pretty much the Hanzal of the runway right now. He's so hot right now... I mean, Parise, Nash, Weber, etc is all sorted...
I can't believe this is a debate. Semin, really???? The bad rap is real! You want a guy like AK that floats around, plays once every 5 games, doesn't show up in the playoffs because there is no money in for them....pick semin. If you want a guy that cares, puts his heart and soul into every game, can score, fight, goes to the net. There is simply no comparison. I am still shocked some of u want semin ahead of doan. Thank god your not GM.
Glad to know Semin would be a 200 goal scorer if he played every game!
Honestly tho this is all blown waay out of proportion. Semin adds elements we don't have right now and is nearly 10 years younger than Doan. If Semin turns out great for us we can re-sign him later and unlike Doan there is no risk he ends up being way over the hill.
Do you really think someone like Shayne Corson or Claude Lemieux is worth tying up over 10% of your team's budget? If Doan came with a money back guarantee, it'd be one thing, but he doesn't and he may turn out to be far too expensive for what he actually brings, since he's pretty much the Hanzal of the runway right now. He's so hot right now... I mean, Parise, Nash, Weber, etc is all sorted...
This debate is getting funny. Yes guys like corson and Claude lemieux are more than worth 10% of your team budget. We are talking about one of the greats in terms of playoff performers in Claude. If you don't have character, I really don't want you on my team. Yes skill is important. Skill without any character, don't want him near my team. No sure how many of you guys play hockey, but team chemistry is so crucial to any team success. Seeing a guy like semin float around will bring the whole team moral down.
I voted Doan because of the conditions - if it's the next two years, I'd rather have the guy who has a good rep as a mentor, since I expect the team to be developing its younger players in this time. That said, if it was a longer-term thing, I'd love to have a sniper the caliber of Semin (I obviously have no idea what he's like in the locker room so I'll reserve judgement on that aspect).
The current choices are the current team + 1 free agent from (Doan, Semin)
But as many have said, the team has the option of burying a $7M salary in the minors, which adds option 3: both, with current team - underperforming $7M salary.
Another top 9 with fire in his belly, and a talented Russian scorer who can benefit from his countrymen on the team, including top QB with something to prove after a wasted year and change, and a dual-nationality wunderkind who I think will force MB's hand with his own exceptional level of motivation. With these two aboard, we will then be talking about a very different team that can do some damage in the playoffs.
If Gallagher also forces his way into the lineup, then we have a nice problem. Trade one of the current top 9 for a defensive stalwart with a nasty disposition.
