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07-25-2012, 02:53 AM
  #151
vector209
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lmao

every game that someone is injured is literally functionally identical to them showing up for the game and doing absolutely nothing
Wow. Talk about a reach. My point is you can't assume performance can be extrapolated as a constant function, especially in the case of someone as inconsistent as Booth. He could've scored more than 23 or less. We won't ever know. Goals aside, what I saw from Booth was someone who simply skated north and south and had absolutely no vision or creativity. Like a black hole, he sucked the entire offense out of that second line.

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07-25-2012, 03:00 AM
  #152
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Come on, anyone still saying Cory should be traded instead is just trolling now. Every party involved has more or less confirmed Luongo is on the way out. Put it to rest already.

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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Are we the only team in history to be poor defensively, terrible offensively and have sustained success? If this were really the case, wouldn't it be easier to trade Luongo?

Fun fact;

The Canucks have played the best defensive team in the NHL their last 12 playoff games.
Ya, it's a little bit crazy this overreaction in July. We've got a good team, we just need all our key guys going at the same time when it matters. Just like every other team in the league. I do think having a more even-keeled goalie will increase the likelihood of that happening though.

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07-25-2012, 03:00 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by vector209 View Post
Wow. Talk about a reach. My point is you can't assume performance can be extrapolated as a constant function, especially in the case of someone as inconsistent as Booth. He could've scored more than 23 or less. We won't ever know. Goals aside, what I saw from Booth was someone who simply skated north and south and had absolutely no vision or creativity. Like a black hole, he sucked the entire offense out of that second line.
There are things that Booth does well and doesn't do well. I didn't really expect him to bring vision or creativity to the team. What I expected is essentially what we got, an honest effort who will drive the puck to the net every chance he can get and bury some dirty ones. I thought our team needed more of that dimension and he was doing well and the injury happened and he came back and was hot for a bit, and IMO dried up when kesler's game started to go south.

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07-25-2012, 03:06 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Anyone who doesn't include a lot of slashes in their predictions are automatically wrong. This training camp is going to have a lot of competition and different guys are going to get chances. There are going to be huge battles for 2C (Schroeder, Higgins, Lapierre, UFA?) and 3C (Malhotra, Lapierre, UFA?). I honestly don't think we add anyone for either position quite yet, as 2C is a temporary spot and we can always pick up a 3C later. Nobody we pick up now is going to be better than Malhotra back at 100% or Lapierre living up to his potential, so why not give each guy a chance first?

I think the wingers are going to shuffle a lot as well, but I agree with the consensus that the d-pairings are essentially set.

Here's what I hope happens, with no new acquisitions. Remember, this is a hope rather than a realistic prediction.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian (Saw this proposed and liked it, if ZK can perform.)

Booth-Schroeder-Higgins (Would require a huge showing from Schroeder in Kesler's absence, but this would create great center depth again.)

Hansen-Kesler-Burrows (Loved this line when it was together. Here's your shutdown line with scoring pop. This line could win series.)

Lapierre-Malhotra-Volpatti (Really hoping for a resurgent season from Manny. Volpatti is interchangeable with Weise or Pinizotto or whoever, I just like Volpatti's attitude the best of the bunch.)

Note: D-sidings may be off.
Bieksa-Hamhuis (Why mess with a good thing?)
Edler-Garrison (Really, really hoping this works out. It has potential.)
Ballard-Tanev (Proven some chemistry, hoping for Ballard to continue fine work from playoffs and Tanev to take the next step.)
Extra: Alberts (I think AA does a good enough job, and does some things no other defenseman in the organization can due to his size and physicality.)

Schneider
Lack (I hope we bring in a veteran for competition and Lack beats him clean.)

If this worked out, I think we'd be a Cup contender without making any moves. I realize there are quite a few what if's, but nothing that I would call a long-shot, except perhaps Schroeder keeping the 2C spot. Remember, if any of the individual pieces falter, trades are possible.

PS: No offense to Mason Raymond, I just honestly prefer what each other winger on the top 3 lines brings, and I don't think he has any place on the 4th line.
you think schroeder wil play his way into more ice time than kesler? we gotta lower our expectations of these young players.

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07-25-2012, 03:22 PM
  #155
stevecanuck16
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Originally Posted by pullyoursocksup View Post
you think schroeder wil play his way into more ice time than kesler? we gotta lower our expectations of these young players.
"Here's what I hope happens, with no new acquisitions. Remember, this is a hope rather than a realistic prediction."

That's a direct quote from my post. How you translated that into me expecting Schroeder to outperform Kesler is beyond me.

That being said, even if this was a prediction, its not entirely impossible. First of all, forget the 1st line, 2nd line, 3rd line business. With this setup, we'd be rolling 3 lines constantly. This would basically be a situation where Schroeder performs well enough (read: not better than Kesler) to hold a spot on a scoring line.

This allows us to put together a shutdown line centered around Kesler. Yes, his offense would dip and perhaps his ice-time as well, but I think this makes him more valuable. Try to think of it as a 2A and 2B situation in regards to lines, with one playing a mainly offensive role and one doing a lot of the shutdown.

To explain my point a little better, if Schroeder performs well then the gap between he and Kesler in a scoring role would be smaller than the gap between Kesler and another center in a checking role. For this to happen, we'd need Schroeder to perform about as well as Hodgson did last year. Again, not better than Kesler, but good enough to play a role on a scoring line.

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07-25-2012, 03:40 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
"Here's what I hope happens, with no new acquisitions. Remember, this is a hope rather than a realistic prediction."

That's a direct quote from my post. How you translated that into me expecting Schroeder to outperform Kesler is beyond me.

That being said, even if this was a prediction, its not entirely impossible. First of all, forget the 1st line, 2nd line, 3rd line business. With this setup, we'd be rolling 3 lines constantly. This would basically be a situation where Schroeder performs well enough (read: not better than Kesler) to hold a spot on a scoring line.

This allows us to put together a shutdown line centered around Kesler. Yes, his offense would dip and perhaps his ice-time as well, but I think this makes him more valuable. Try to think of it as a 2A and 2B situation in regards to lines, with one playing a mainly offensive role and one doing a lot of the shutdown.

To explain my point a little better, if Schroeder performs well then the gap between he and Kesler in a scoring role would be smaller than the gap between Kesler and another center in a checking role. For this to happen, we'd need Schroeder to perform about as well as Hodgson did last year. Again, not better than Kesler, but good enough to play a role on a scoring line.
I don't think this is a bad idea provided we get the right acquisitions this offseason and Schroeder plays like a stud. Maybe something like this could work for the 2nd and 3rd line:

Booth-Schroeder-(New acquisition from Luongo trade or FA signing)
(Pick a bottom six guy)-Kesler-Hansen

It's a little ironic how MG is scouring the earth for a shutdown centre when he has a Selke winning Centre on the team already. Kesler can still get PP time and if the PP is working then his "scoring ego" has nothing to worry about.

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07-25-2012, 03:48 PM
  #157
stevecanuck16
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Originally Posted by Starfighter View Post
I don't think this is a bad idea provided we get the right acquisitions this offseason and Schroeder plays like a stud. Maybe something like this could work for the 2nd and 3rd line:

Booth-Schroeder-(New acquisition from Luongo trade or FA signing)
(Pick a bottom six guy)-Kesler-Hansen

It's a little ironic how MG is scouring the earth for a shutdown centre when he has a Selke winning Centre on the team already. Kesler can still get PP time and if the PP is working then his "scoring ego" has nothing to worry about.
I honestly think we should have done this last year with Hodgson. Hodgson was kind of struggling with the defensive side of things and Kesler was struggling on offense. Would have made sense to switch!

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07-25-2012, 04:04 PM
  #158
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
I honestly think we should have done this last year with Hodgson. Hodgson was kind of struggling with the defensive side of things and Kesler was struggling on offense. Would have made sense to switch!
But Hodgson was struggling while playing easy minutes with two top defensive players. They couldn't have made his minutes much softer and putting him with two less defensively aware players would've been a disaster.

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07-25-2012, 04:15 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
But Hodgson was struggling while playing easy minutes with two top defensive players. They couldn't have made his minutes much softer and putting him with two less defensively aware players would've been a disaster.
What do you think about Schroeder in the same situation? From what I have read, he is generally considered more defensively-responsible than Hodgson, correct? Could a Booth-Schroeder-Higgins line or something to that effect have some success? I'd look for Booth to continue to progress as a power forward here, and show some of the physicality he showed in his earlier years in Florida and in the playoffs last year.

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07-25-2012, 04:18 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
What do you think about Schroeder in the same situation? From what I have read, he is generally considered more defensively-responsible than Hodgson, correct? Could a Booth-Schroeder-Higgins line or something to that effect have some success? I'd look for Booth to continue to progress as a power forward here, and show some of the physicality he showed in his earlier years in Florida and in the playoffs last year.
I don't know, we'll see... I think he's better off playing with Hansen to start, it's going to give him some leeway in terms of making mistakes and he also does well alongside strong forecheckers, which is exactly what Hansen is. If he's doing fine after 20-ish games then you can think about switching things around if necessary.

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07-25-2012, 04:25 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Mojo Risin* View Post
Surprised more people aren't panicking at our bottom 6 centre situation. Very, very weak for a contender. I don't know what FA centres are left but Gillis needs to sign one ASAP. Lapierre is in way over his head as the 3rd line centre.
Lapierre is one of our more consistent players. I'd rather keep him since I know what we're getting and he's really not too shabby, plus he sticks up for his teammates.

People want another Ryan Kesler when he was slotted in the 3rd line, but that's not very likely by spinning the FA/trade wheel. Most times, you just end up with another Sammi Pahlsson. Could be good, but just doesn't pan out and then you wasted cap space/assets to get them.

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07-25-2012, 04:31 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't know, we'll see... I think he's better off playing with Hansen to start, it's going to give him some leeway in terms of making mistakes and he also does well alongside strong forecheckers, which is exactly what Hansen is. If he's doing fine after 20-ish games then you can think about switching things around if necessary.
Hmm. I agree, but that's inconvenient, given that 20-ish games is about the time Kesler will be out.

Perhaps Booth-Schroeder-Hansen to start the year. I agree with you that Hansen can really anchor a line, and give time for Booth and Schroeder to develop some offensive chemistry. The third line might then be Higgins-Malhotra/Lapierre-Kassian, with the hope being that Schroeder and Kassian play well enough to maintain their top-9 positions.

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07-25-2012, 09:37 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I would argue that the team in front of him made Luongo look really really bad some nights. Sure Luongo had his meltdowns, game 6 of the Chicago series in 2009 comes to mind. As does game 6 of the SCF. But the team in front of him really wasn't that good in the 2011 playoffs. Just look at how badly we were outplayed in games 4 and 5 of the San Jose series. If not for Luongo coming up huge (especially in game 5) and us getting lucky with a string of powerplays/5 on 3's in game 4, we get blown out those games and all of a sudden go into game 6 trailing 3-2 in the series.

People are so quick to jump on Luongo, but sledom ever acknowledge that he actually is a great goalie and the rest of the team just isn't up to standard.
And I'm saying that while yes, the team often plays poorly and makes Luongo look bad, in those situations, he often compounds the problem and makes himself look even worse.

I'm not saying he lets the team down or anything, but to me it's just as silly as saying that the team lets him down. He deserves roughly the same amount of blame as they do, IMO.

For my money, the reason we're rightfully considered a mentally weak team is that when one side struggles, the other side tends to tackle them and roll down the hill together rather than try to pull them back up.

For every obnoxious fan trashing Luongo, there's an equally obnoxious fan overzealously defending him like he didn't play poorly.

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