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UFC on Fox 4: Shogun vs Vera

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Old
07-25-2012, 10:27 PM
  #26
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There's nobody else. For all the talk of 185 being cleaned out, if Jones beats Hendo this division is in even worse shape until Gustafsson can get some momentum. Hopefully Chael moves up.

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07-25-2012, 11:15 PM
  #27
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Vera's not a can, but I don't think I'd pick him to beat anyone in the top 15-20, so in that sense it seems like a waste of time for Shogun. I love Shogun at around -350 in this one. Also love Machida at -320 against Bader.

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Rothwell out and Devin Cole in to face Browne
I guess Mitrione knew well in advance that his fight wouldn't be happening, because otherwise it would seem to have made perfect sense to match him up with Browne.

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Still a good card. Dana White said if Shogun whoops that ass he will be the number one contender. Which doesn't make sense to me.
+1. But then you take a look at the landscape at 205 and I don't know who would get the next shot. Jones really has cleaned out that division. In that Gustafsson is essentially the only guy left I'd like to see him and Shogun fight and the winner of that get the next shot. Who knows maybe by then if Cain loses again or if Cormier comes over one of those guys will drop down to 205. Also, if Teixeira can finish Rampage he'd only need one more big win before I'd be ok with him getting a title shot.

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07-25-2012, 11:38 PM
  #28
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Still a good card. Dana White said if Shogun whoops that ass he will be the number one contender. Which doesn't make sense to me.
He's fighting Vera so it's pretty much a guarantee that he'll whoop that ass.

So Shogun gets destroyed by Jones, beats Forrest, loses to Henderson, refuses to fight Teixeira, and now gets a title shot if he beats a guy who is only in the UFC because Thiago Silva was on roids? Wow.

Jones really killed that division.

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07-25-2012, 11:42 PM
  #29
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He's fighting Vera so it's pretty much a guarantee that he'll whoop that ass.

So Shogun gets destroyed by Jones, beats Forrest, loses to Henderson, refuses to fight Teixeira, and now gets a title shot if he beats a guy who is only in the UFC because Thiago Silva was on roids? Wow.

Jones really killed that division.
Can't count out Henderson. And Machida at least had a round on Jones and may have exposed some weaknesses...

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07-26-2012, 12:08 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
Vera's not a can, but I don't think I'd pick him to beat anyone in the top 15-20, so in that sense it seems like a waste of time for Shogun. I love Shogun at around -350 in this one. Also love Machida at -320 against Bader.


I guess Mitrione knew well in advance that his fight wouldn't be happening, because otherwise it would seem to have made perfect sense to match him up with Browne.


+1. But then you take a look at the landscape at 205 and I don't know who would get the next shot. Jones really has cleaned out that division. In that Gustafsson is essentially the only guy left I'd like to see him and Shogun fight and the winner of that get the next shot. Who knows maybe by then if Cain loses again or if Cormier comes over one of those guys will drop down to 205. Also, if Teixeira can finish Rampage he'd only need one more big win before I'd be ok with him getting a title shot.
The light heavyweight division is on lockdown until Jones moves up to heavyweight imo. Its not a weak division...its just that Jones is so dominant..i'm not even a JJ fan. The only way Jones loses is if he underestimates Hendo...then we have a Couture/Sylvia situation.

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07-26-2012, 12:26 AM
  #31
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There's nobody else. For all the talk of 185 being cleaned out, if Jones beats Hendo this division is in even worse shape until Gustafsson can get some momentum. Hopefully Chael moves up.

agreed, they should give Chael a top 5 light heavyweight and if he wins a title shot against Jones, of course sonnen's gonna get destroyed but the build up for the fight would be insane!

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07-26-2012, 01:50 AM
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Its too bad that Jones has no challengers, because he's someone who wants to stay active.

Dana saying that these 205 fights will determine the next contender is hilarious. Jones already took these four guys to school.

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07-26-2012, 02:44 AM
  #33
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Its too bad that Jones has no challengers, because he's someone who wants to stay active.

Dana saying that these 205 fights will determine the next contender is hilarious. Jones already took these four guys to school.
The only guy who had any success was Machida. Machida looks pretty shredded and lean for his fight with Bader...I'm getting the feeling he will give us a "holy ****" performance. Machida vs Bones 2 interests me more than Shogun vs Bones 2.

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07-26-2012, 01:08 PM
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I don't have a problem with shogun getting fight either. If memory serves me correctly shogun was coming off an injury again & looked less than stellar. Jones had a lot to do with that & will crush him again most likely.

There is no reason a healthy shougun can't present the same problems machida gave bones & at least make a more interesting fight this time.

Sure he lost to Hendo recently but that loss might have improved his stock & general marketability if anything.

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07-26-2012, 01:34 PM
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I don't have a problem with shogun getting fight either. If memory serves me correctly shogun was coming off an injury again & looked less than stellar. Jones had a lot to do with that & will crush him again most likely.

There is no reason a healthy shougun can't present the same problems machida gave bones & at least make a more interesting fight this time.

Sure he lost to Hendo recently but that loss might have improved his stock & general marketability if anything.
I hope so if thats the case. Of course all it takes is Hendo landing an H-bomb square on Bones and we are talking Shogun-Hendo 2. Unlikely but its been a weird year in MMA so far.

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07-26-2012, 02:11 PM
  #36
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I don't have a problem with shogun getting fight either. If memory serves me correctly shogun was coming off an injury again & looked less than stellar. Jones had a lot to do with that & will crush him again most likely.

There is no reason a healthy shougun can't present the same problems machida gave bones & at least make a more interesting fight this time.

Sure he lost to Hendo recently but that loss might have improved his stock & general marketability if anything.
Shogun has nothing for Jones.

Really not interested in seeing that again.

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07-26-2012, 05:43 PM
  #37
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I'd be more interested in a Machida rematch than a Shogun rematch.

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07-26-2012, 09:18 PM
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At least Machida took a round from Jones. If that fight were to happen again though, I'd think Jones would be much quicker to utilize his wrestling advantage.

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07-26-2012, 11:14 PM
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Same, at least Machida went down with a fight. Shogun went down a cowering and destroyed 205 lb ball of battered organs and limbs.

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07-27-2012, 10:55 AM
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Same, at least Machida went down with a fight. Shogun went down a cowering and destroyed 205 lb ball of battered organs and limbs.
Machidas a samurai thats why. He could've tapped at any time but didnt. Shogun was messed 4 seconds into that fight by the flying knee.

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07-27-2012, 02:42 PM
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The Dragon definetly goes out on his shield...which is why he's one of my faves.

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07-27-2012, 05:53 PM
  #42
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Shogun's a much better striker and all around fighter than Machida and will be a tougher challenge to Jones. You guys are way too hung up Machida slighty winning one round before he got destroyed. Shogun was coming off major surgery and it was his first fight in almost a year. If he doesn't get hit by that knee right away the fight could've went differently. That being said, I'm quite sure Jones would beat him again and likely in devestating fashion.

I love Hendo but Jones is going to win easily. All Hendo has going for him in the fight is the H-Bomb. He won't be able to take him down or outstrike him. I see Jones finishing the fight in 3rd or 4th round by TKO or choke.

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07-27-2012, 05:58 PM
  #43
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The Dragon definetly goes out on his shield...which is why he's one of my faves.
In his first fight with Shogun, Machida looked like he didn't even want to be in the ring by the mid rounds. One of the worst decisions of alltime allowed to win that fight somehow but Shogun beat the fighting spirit right out of him in that fight.

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07-27-2012, 07:29 PM
  #44
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Shogun's a much better striker and all around fighter than Machida and will be a tougher challenge to Jones. You guys are way too hung up Machida slighty winning one round before he got destroyed. Shogun was coming off major surgery and it was his first fight in almost a year. If he doesn't get hit by that knee right away the fight could've went differently. That being said, I'm quite sure Jones would beat him again and likely in devestating fashion.

I love Hendo but Jones is going to win easily. All Hendo has going for him in the fight is the H-Bomb. He won't be able to take him down or outstrike him. I see Jones finishing the fight in 3rd or 4th round by TKO or choke.
Yes but Shogun is ALWAYS injured, out of shape, coming off surgeries, and gone a long time without fighting. You can't use those as excuses when its likely those are just always going to be there.

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07-27-2012, 07:30 PM
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In his first fight with Shogun, Machida looked like he didn't even want to be in the ring by the mid rounds. One of the worst decisions of alltime allowed to win that fight somehow but Shogun beat the fighting spirit right out of him in that fight.
One of the worst decisions of all-time? I thought Shogun won too but most people had it 48-47 either way, or maybe a draw. There are worse decisions on almost every card than that one.

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07-27-2012, 07:33 PM
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In his first fight with Shogun, Machida looked like he didn't even want to be in the ring by the mid rounds. One of the worst decisions of alltime allowed to win that fight somehow but Shogun beat the fighting spirit right out of him in that fight.
Like Shogun in his fight with Jones? It goes both ways. I agree it was a terrible decision but its pretty safe to say neither fighter has been broken to the point of losing the desire to fight.

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07-27-2012, 07:35 PM
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Yes but Shogun is ALWAYS injured, out of shape, coming off surgeries, and gone a long time without fighting. You can't use those as excuses when its likely those are just always going to be there.
Completely agree with this.

It's sad that we can't talk about a Shogun, Rampage, or BJ Penn fight anymore without mentioning their conditioning or if they're in shape or not. Couple of my all-time favourite fighters and it's not like they're that old.

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07-29-2012, 04:28 PM
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Terrible decision please haha. The decision was warranted. It was a close fight not a terrible omg the bad guy won kinda fight. a terrible decision was Manny vs Bradley

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07-30-2012, 12:56 PM
  #49
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Yes but Shogun is ALWAYS injured, out of shape, coming off surgeries, and gone a long time without fighting. You can't use those as excuses when its likely those are just always going to be there.
That's a very good point.
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One of the worst decisions of all-time? I thought Shogun won too but most people had it 48-47 either way, or maybe a draw. There are worse decisions on almost every card than that one.
Maybe not a top 5 worst decision of all-time but not far off considering it was a title fight. Shogun won 4 rounds with the other being very close. Shogun landed more shots, better/harder shots and just destroyed his body with kicks. Machida looked like he didn't want to fight by the end of the match. He was completely shocked when they announced him as the winner and rightfully so. I watched the fight with about 12 other people most of whom were casual fans and as someone who had pumped the fight/sport up it was embarrassing. Everyone figured it had to be rigged.

There's definitely not worse decisions on every card. Maybe a few per year tops.

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Terrible decision please haha. The decision was warranted. It was a close fight not a terrible omg the bad guy won kinda fight. a terrible decision was Manny vs Bradley
Manny vs Bradley was much worse but you're either blind or biased if you don't think Shogun/Machida was a terrible decision.

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07-30-2012, 03:04 PM
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Dana says the winner of the main event gets the next title shot.

I think most people have the same reaction Jones had when he heard about this....

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