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Poll: Doan Vs. Semin

View Poll Results: Doan or Semin
Doan 132 58.41%
Semin 62 27.43%
Neither of Them 32 14.16%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-25-2012, 11:10 PM
  #101
LaTenderness
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Originally Posted by montreal25m View Post
No sure how many of you guys play hockey, but team chemistry is so crucial to any team success. Seeing a guy like semin float around will bring the whole team moral down.

Yep the second Semin stops skating full speed the entire team will throw in the towel. Anyone who's played hockey knows this.

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07-25-2012, 11:26 PM
  #102
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Personally I would go for neither of them because neither of them would really fit the rebuild phase MTL is in. Semin has a history of floating and Doan is a little too far gone for the money he wants. Could we get him for cheaper I would say yes but he is 35 and wants 4 years not to mention that we already have veteran presences in the locker room.

If Doan was willing to accept a short deal cheap deal (less than 5) then maybe but I would hate to tie cap to someone who although hard working is a little too close to the end of his career.

Although getting rid of Gomez (trade or bury) might change my mind.

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07-26-2012, 12:37 AM
  #103
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No brainer for me. Its Shane Doan. He's a warrior.

If the habs want a big, strong, physical top 6 guy who can further promote a strong culture within the room, he's the guy. I think he'd be a great fit with plekanec, and gives the habs a much more dynamic top 6.

You got a nice mixture of speed and talent in Plekanec. Doan adds scoring ability, size, competitiveness, and strength, and Gionta adds in the speed and goal scoring department. That 2nd line instantly looks more well rounded and dangerous.

If he habs can get him, then my only big concern regarding this club is the defense. I used the term "well rounded" above. That is something that the D lacks imo

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07-26-2012, 05:02 AM
  #104
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Thank god Bergy is our GM and not the people wanting Semin and if you can't see the reasons why then your blind. This team has finally turned a corner and now you want to go down that road again. As much as I'd like Doan, he is going to a team like the Rangers, Philly or Pitt.

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07-26-2012, 06:50 AM
  #105
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Down what road again? When was the last time we had a guy in his 20's who was as talented a goal scorer as Semin?

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07-26-2012, 07:15 AM
  #106
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The question is bad. I'll take whoever agrees to a 2 year deal.

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07-26-2012, 07:28 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
yup especially when Doan scored more goals then Semin last year
Yeah but he scored twice as many in practise

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07-26-2012, 08:07 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LaTenderness View Post
Down what road again? When was the last time we had a guy in his 20's who was as talented a goal scorer as Semin?
People have been so obsessed with the PF type that it's all they want now.

Semin is exactly what we need. Young, good size winger, great hands, poise with the puck, amazing shot, good accuracy, great vision and creativity, good speed, not a defensive liability, can also create plays, can score 40g and be ppg player, has a career avg of 35g/year. I mean, really, we need one of those, badly.
But no, let's go after the guy that'll be 36 next year. A guy who's, in term of production, good year will equate to a bad year from Semin.

Semin has a bad rep, overblown IMO, but so what. He won't drag the team lower than its 15th place finish last year.

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07-26-2012, 08:15 AM
  #109
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I for one would take either of these two.
Doan can still put up 50pts and has leadership tangibles.
Semin can dazzle with the best of them and we have
the group of players to keep him on his toes.

I think we will be signing one of these two but from my perspective looks
like Doan is plan A.

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07-26-2012, 08:17 AM
  #110
Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
I like Doan, he is my type of player, but I think Semin is getting a bad rap for the poor leadership he had in Washington. The guy is not as bad as Crawford or the other talking heads says he is and I would take him on the Habs in a heartbeat.

Doan is getting up there and even if he has some gas left in the tank I think in 2 years we would regret what we are going to have to pay him to come to Montreal. I think the leadership is better in Montreal from top to bottom now and we could handle an explosive player like Semin. I think the team that gets Semin is going to be pleasantly surprised.
Same here - especially the bolded part.

I still think our biggest need is to reinforce our D squad (Bouillon is better than Campoli and Weber but if - 50% risk of happening imo - Markov goes down, we are screwed... again) but Semin would look great alongside Pacioretty and Plekanec.

Pacioretty – Plekanec – Semin
Bourque – Desharnais – Cole
Moen – Eller – Gionta (18-20 minutes per game; a very solid shutdown line)
Prust – Nokelainen – White

Armstrong/Dumont

On second thought Doan would also look great alongside Pacioretty and Plekanec!

I guess it will depend on the terms. Assuming that Doan is not looking for 4 years and Semin would settle, long terms, for less than 6,5M$ per season, I would go with Semin (he gets my vote) because we badly need top end scoring talent upfront... especially during PP and shootouts.

If Semin is looking for more than 6,5M$ per season, I would offer a fat 3 years contract to Doan.

However and as I already mentioned, our current D squad is not playoffs worthy.

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Old
07-26-2012, 08:20 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Flyinghab View Post
Thank god Bergy is our GM and not the people wanting Semin and if you can't see the reasons why then your blind. This team has finally turned a corner and now you want to go down that road again. As much as I'd like Doan, he is going to a team like the Rangers, Philly or Pitt.
Most probably, Montreal is always in the mix, that's how UFA touch more money in the end

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07-26-2012, 08:25 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
People have been so obsessed with the PF type that it's all they want now.

Semin is exactly what we need. Young, good size winger, great hands, poise with the puck, amazing shot, good accuracy, great vision and creativity, good speed, not a defensive liability, can also create plays, can score 40g and be ppg player, has a career avg of 35g/year. I mean, really, we need one of those, badly.
But no, let's go after the guy that'll be 36 next year. A guy who's, in term of production, good year will equate to a bad year from Semin.

Semin has a bad rep, overblown IMO, but so what. He won't drag the team lower than its 15th place finish last year.
No he's not. Since day one, Bergevin has said that he wants character players. As talented as he may be, Semin definitely doesn't have that attribute.

Careful now... there are skillful character players. Let's not fall in the mold that it's one or another, like the notion that all tough guys are goons and vice-versa.

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07-26-2012, 08:37 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
People have been so obsessed with the PF type that it's all they want now.

Semin is exactly what we need. Young, good size winger, great hands, poise with the puck, amazing shot, good accuracy, great vision and creativity, good speed, not a defensive liability, can also create plays, can score 40g and be ppg player, has a career avg of 35g/year. I mean, really, we need one of those, badly.
But no, let's go after the guy that'll be 36 next year. A guy who's, in term of production, good year will equate to a bad year from Semin.

Semin has a bad rep, overblown IMO, but so what. He won't drag the team lower than its 15th place finish last year.
Semin is a 30g/year average, not 35. He scored 40 goals once only. He accumulated all these great stats while playing a run and gun, no defense, type of hockey with great talented players. Look at is stats, its up and down all the time. No consistency.

Funny how you never responded to my posts where I clearly state that when Washington adopted a more defensive style 2 years ago, is stats went down and when Hunter took over and put in an even more defensive system, is stats went way down and he produced less than Doan in a similar system, but Doan was playing with less talented players. I find this to be a very important fact that all Semin lovers are ignoring because you have no response to it. Keep closing your eyes and ignore the facts, keep hoping that is bad reputatioon is overblown, that's a great way to build a team.

Its too funny people thinking Semin could score 40 with the Habs and their defensive system. I'm not even sure he would score 30. Say he does to be nice. Doan would give at least 20. So the extra 10 goals, at best, probably less, are worth more than Doan's character and leadership, grit, playoffs appaearance, etc. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

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07-26-2012, 08:42 AM
  #114
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I am just wonder how Cole, in our tight defensive system, scored 10 more goals than the not-so-defensive Hurricane team, while playing a diminutive centre that is 8 inches smaller than Staal.

Truly, our system causes the wreck of offensive potential.

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07-26-2012, 08:46 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Most probably, Montreal is always in the mix, that's how UFA touch more money in the end
you would think that a team would call bluff at some point.

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07-26-2012, 08:48 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I am just wonder how Cole, in our tight defensive system, scored 10 more goals than the not-so-defensive Hurricane team, while playing a diminutive centre that is 8 inches smaller than Staal.

Truly, our system causes the wreck of offensive potential.
FYI, our system is good for the hard workers who go to corners, not the skilled type of guys. We are not a puck possession team. We need to get the puck. Guys like Semin wait for it, they don't get it.

I will stop here. If you don't get this, you don't get our system and probably don't know enough about hockey to understand these subtilities of the game. That's what Washington started doing in the past 2 years and look at Semin's stats those 2 years. Is so much of what we need

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07-26-2012, 09:04 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
look at Semin's stats those 2 years.
Sure. 142 games played, 50 goals, +31 (never lower than top 5 on his team either year in +/-, btw), ATOI ~17:XX/game. If that's him - at age 26/27 - "struggling to adjust to a new system", I'll take it.

Backing up to your point (which I shouldn't have erased, I guess) about us having to "get the puck" as a "puck possession team", you are aware, of course, that no team in the league runs a permanent 3-man forecheck, and that if 3 forwards all go for the puck at the same time all the time our defense is going to face a lot of odd-man rushes, right? You build those elements around talent like Semin. Unless you'd rather pay $6+ million for Doan regardless, in which case I'll just save the keystrokes and stop right now.

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07-26-2012, 09:08 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Sure. 142 games played, 50 goals, +31 (never lower than top 5 on his team either year in +/-, btw), ATOI ~17:XX/game. If that's him - at age 26/27 - "struggling to adjust to a new system", I'll take it.

Backing up to your point (which I shouldn't have erased, I guess) about us having to "get the puck" as a "puck possession team", you are aware, of course, that no team in the league runs a permanent 3-man forecheck, and that if 3 forwards all go for the puck at the same time all the time our defense is going to face a lot of odd-man rushes, right? You build those elements around talent like Semin. Unless you'd rather pay $6+ million for Doan regardless, in which case I'll just save the keystrokes and stop right now.
I've previously referred to the 8th place religion as a loser cult on these boards.

Signing an aging 2nd liner like Doan is even worse than that. It fits in with the 11th place religion. Worst case scenario.

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07-26-2012, 09:17 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Sure. 142 games played, 50 goals, +31 (never lower than top 5 on his team either year in +/-, btw), ATOI ~17:XX/game. If that's him - at age 26/27 - "struggling to adjust to a new system", I'll take it.

Backing up to your point (which I shouldn't have erased, I guess) about us having to "get the puck" as a "puck possession team", you are aware, of course, that no team in the league runs a permanent 3-man forecheck, and that if 3 forwards all go for the puck at the same time all the time our defense is going to face a lot of odd-man rushes, right? You build those elements around talent like Semin. Unless you'd rather pay $6+ million for Doan regardless, in which case I'll just save the keystrokes and stop right now.
Semin as good stats the past 2 years, but not amazing. My point was the huge dropoff vs. the years before under a run and gun style of hockey. People say he is a 40 goal scorer. Only in such a system he is, otherwise he is not as evidenced by the past 2 years.

If Semin had a better reputation, I would take him. I don't hate is stats, just the type of player he is (not a team player). I don't want that near my team anymore.

Yes I know about forechecking, but everyone here says to put Semin with Pleck and Gionta. OK, who will get the puck out of those 3? Good luck with that. The Desharnais line did great last year with 2 power forwards.

And NO, I would not pay Doan 6M+. At that price, I want neither. Basically, I don't want Semin at all and I want Doan, but for 2 years max and 5M max. I doubt we get either of them anyways.

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07-26-2012, 09:19 AM
  #120
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Doan is probably the better locker room presence for our youngsters. So yes, Doan.

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07-26-2012, 09:30 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
Semin as good stats the past 2 years, but not amazing. My point was the huge dropoff vs. the years before under a run and gun style of hockey. People say he is a 40 goal scorer. Only in such a system he is, otherwise he is not as evidenced by the past 2 years.

If Semin had a better reputation, I would take him. I don't hate is stats, just the type of player he is (not a team player). I don't want that near my team anymore.

Yes I know about forechecking, but everyone here says to put Semin with Pleck and Gionta. OK, who will get the puck out of those 3? Good luck with that. The Desharnais line did great last year with 2 power forwards.

And NO, I would not pay Doan 6M+. At that price, I want neither. Basically, I don't want Semin at all and I want Doan, but for 2 years max and 5M max. I doubt we get either of them anyways.
No, not everyone is saying that. I've never said that, that's for sure. Why would you even base an opinion on a general matter (whether or not a player would/could improve our team) on a specific item such as a fictitious line combination, or arbitrary label of "XX Goal Scorer" that you've found and disagree with? That doesn't make sense to me. Even something like his "reputation" has to be taken with a grain of salt, since it's something manufactured from a period in which a coach was fired and a rookie hard-nosed defensive coach took over. Seriously, what is either guy going to say about a talent first guy like Semin?

Wait now, how much have we actually heard about this "reputation" from actual hockey personalities vs talking heads in the media who are often paid to fill more airtime than they have the ability to fill with actual educated opinion? I mean, even if I take the sides of the disgruntled coach, the rookie coach, and the savage media, how am I not to assume, still, that there's absolutely no way for the right group to get the best out of a talent like Semin?

But if you want a real "good luck with that", how about signing Doan - who is reportedly asking for well north of $6 million/year (don't care about the term) - for $5 million. I'm not saying to target Semin, but if the biggest deal in the team's off season had to involve getting anyone, I'd hope for it to be Semin instead of Doan.

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07-26-2012, 09:40 AM
  #122
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Let's face it. We are down to the aging francophobe or the Russian coaster.

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07-26-2012, 09:46 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No, not everyone is saying that. I've never said that, that's for sure. Why would you even base an opinion on a general matter (whether or not a player would/could improve our team) on a specific item such as a fictitious line combination, or arbitrary label of "XX Goal Scorer" that you've found and disagree with? That doesn't make sense to me. Even something like his "reputation" has to be taken with a grain of salt, since it's something manufactured from a period in which a coach was fired and a rookie hard-nosed defensive coach took over. Seriously, what is either guy going to say about a talent first guy like Semin?

Wait now, how much have we actually heard about this "reputation" from actual hockey personalities vs talking heads in the media who are often paid to fill more airtime than they have the ability to fill with actual educated opinion? I mean, even if I take the sides of the disgruntled coach, the rookie coach, and the savage media, how am I not to assume, still, that there's absolutely no way for the right group to get the best out of a talent like Semin?

But if you want a real "good luck with that", how about signing Doan - who is reportedly asking for well north of $6 million/year (don't care about the term) - for $5 million. I'm not saying to target Semin, but if the biggest deal in the team's off season had to involve getting anyone, I'd hope for it to be Semin instead of Doan.
That's where the Semin lovers are wrong. It's real. When there's smoke, there's fire. Too many people saying it to be taken with a grain of salt.

The right group to get the best out of Semin? How many teams have tried to do that with these type of players anf failed miserably? Habs are not in a position to make these gambles, especially with a 5-6M guy.

Anyhow, the poll says it all, Doan >> Semin, and its a no brainer, but you're intitled to your opinion.

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07-26-2012, 09:52 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Let's face it. We are down to the aging francophobe or the Russian coaster.
1st lol

2nd Regarding Doan alleged racist comments...

The four refs pledged it was him - Why would they lie?

Someone mentioned it was Naggy. Who mentioned it?

Is it a case of the NHL burying it under the carpet or did Naggy clearly was the one making the racist remarks?

I remember a video (radio-canada) of Doan yelling at the refs during that game... I will try to find it.

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07-26-2012, 10:01 AM
  #125
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1st lol

2nd Regarding Doan alleged racist comments...

The four refs pledged it was him - Why would they lie?

Someone mentioned it was Naggy. Who mentioned it?

Is it a case of the NHL burying it under the carpet or did Naggy clearly was the one making the racist remarks?

I remember a video (radio-canada) of Doan yelling at the refs during that game... I will try to find it.
You should have stopped at #1. This is how it was intended ;-)

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