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Old
07-25-2012, 11:45 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Potential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Current high level production
4 years of club control at affordable rate > 2 yrs at almost $7M

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07-26-2012, 12:28 AM
  #977
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Another good one. Ah, the good old days when Marleau didn't just go with his signature chest shot.
now that's skill

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07-26-2012, 12:59 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
4 years of club control at affordable rate > 2 yrs at almost $7M
Depends on what the team is doing. If Philly is going for it this year, Boyle does them a LOT more good than Voracek.

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07-26-2012, 01:14 AM
  #979
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Problem with Simmonds is that who knows if we'd get 3rd liner in LA Simmonds or beast from the east in Philly Simmonds.
I'd be fine with the LA Simmonds - we need an F1 for Jumbo's line and he could be an ideal one. Fast and tenacious forechecker.

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07-26-2012, 01:22 AM
  #980
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So I just read this article about how the cast of Modern Family are suing the studio because of illegal contracts that "violate California's 7 year rule where personal service contracts can't go beyond 7 years."

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/...614693,00.html

Is this why the longest contract in our franchise history has been 6 years and why DW is "against" the front-loaded retirement contracts?

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07-26-2012, 01:25 AM
  #981
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So I just read this article about how the cast of Modern Family are suing the studio because of illegal contracts that "violate California's 7 year rule where personal service contracts can't go beyond 7 years."

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/...614693,00.html

Is this why the longest contract in our franchise history has been 6 years and why DW is "against" the front-loaded retirement contracts?
Doughty has an 8-year contract, and Quick has a 10.

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07-26-2012, 01:27 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
So I just read this article about how the cast of Modern Family are suing the studio because of illegal contracts that "violate California's 7 year rule where personal service contracts can't go beyond 7 years."

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/...614693,00.html

Is this why the longest contract in our franchise history has been 6 years and why DW is "against" the front-loaded retirement contracts?
I don't think player contracts are personal service contracts because they are unionized.

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07-26-2012, 01:28 AM
  #983
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Doughty has an 8-year contract, and Quick has a 10.
Ah totally forgot about that. And here I thought I was a brilliant detective

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Old
07-26-2012, 02:14 AM
  #984
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Voracek is young and versatile but I wouldn't consider him very skilled. He's not much of a goal scorer. He's not much of a physical player. He's inconsistent in all facets but some of that is youth. He's not that quick. He is like Boyle in terms of elusiveness and agility but not quick or speedy. Quality playmaker and quality two-way player when he's on but can be off for long stretches of time and there's really no part of his game that is reliable yet.

He would not be the ideal fit among the "tradeable young forwards" that Philly has. Matt Read and Wayne Simmonds are more ideal in skill set.
I disagree entirely. Voracek is more ideal than either of Simmonds or Read. He's a great skater and a great playmaker and has great hands and creativity. Probably the things we need the most. Who cares if he's not that much of a finisher? We have Marleau and Couture and Pavelski to finish. Of course he's streaky. So's Couture. Doesn't really change my opinion of him.

Plus there's getting another Czech guy to be BFFLs with Havlat and Hertl. Voracek-Hertl-Havlat is the first line of the future.

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Problem with Simmonds is that who knows if we'd get 3rd liner in LA Simmonds or beast from the east in Philly Simmonds.
I'm certain we'd be getting LA Simmonds. Anyone can score 30 goals in Philly's system. Ours is closer to LA's. I'd love to have LA Simmonds as a player, obviously, but not in exchange for Boyle.

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Ah totally forgot about that. And here I thought I was a brilliant detective


JK Iron Chef, we love you.

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07-26-2012, 02:34 AM
  #985
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I disagree entirely. Voracek is more ideal than either of Simmonds or Read. He's a great skater and a great playmaker and has great hands and creativity. Probably the things we need the most. Who cares if he's not that much of a finisher? We have Marleau and Couture and Pavelski to finish. Of course he's streaky. So's Couture. Doesn't really change my opinion of him.

Plus there's getting another Czech guy to be BFFLs with Havlat and Hertl. Voracek-Hertl-Havlat is the first line of the future.
I agree. Havlat, Boyle, and maybe Burns are the only good stick handlers we have. Voracek could bring the puck into the zone by himself and could deke out the opposition. He could undress a goalie with his moves. We could use a young foward with good potential.

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07-26-2012, 03:04 AM
  #986
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So's Couture.
I don't really agree with this. Couture went thru a slump last year but whether it was that bad shoulder or his version of a sophomore slump I think that was more a temporary thing and not a sign of some who is streaky like Marleau. I actually expect Couture to maybe lead the team in scoring this year now that he'll be in his 3rd year. He'll get the easier matchups and I think he's got a little more to go till he get's to his ceiling. He still has to get his man body then he'll be even more dangerous.

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07-26-2012, 03:06 AM
  #987
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I don't really agree with this. Couture went thru a slump last year but whether it was that bad shoulder or his version of a sophomore slump I think that was more a temporary thing and not a sign of some who is streaky like Marleau. I actually expect Couture to maybe lead the team in scoring this year now that he'll be in his 3rd year. He'll get the easier matchups and I think he's got a little more to go till he get's to his ceiling. He still has to get his man body then he'll be even more dangerous.
I still think that Thornton has a couple more years of leading the team in points. Marleau/Pavelski/Couture will be a tier down, in the 60-75 point range, until then.

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07-26-2012, 03:12 AM
  #988
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I still think that Thornton has a couple more years of leading the team in points. Marleau/Pavelski/Couture will be a tier down, in the 60-75 point range, until then.
It's a toss up for me. Thorton has been providing progressively less offense and I think Couture has another gear. Might not happen till next year but I'm betting this year especially if he gets a healthy Havlat for more than 20 games. I think those 2 will do some damage once the establish some chemistry. God forbid they get a winger who isn't as slow as clowe and doesn't hang onto the puck so much...

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07-26-2012, 03:20 AM
  #989
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It's a toss up for me. Thorton has been providing progressively less offense and I think Couture has another gear. Might not happen till next year but I'm betting this year especially if he gets a healthy Havlat for more than 20 games. I think those 2 will do some damage once the establish some chemistry. God forbid they get a winger who isn't as slow as clowe and doesn't hang onto the puck so much...
Well, there's the difference between us. I don't think Couture has another "gear", or at least he won't reach it until after Thornton's gone. He's doomed to be a 70 two-way player for the majority of his career, it's very tragic, I know.

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07-26-2012, 03:29 AM
  #990
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Been lurking around the boards all summer as it has been extremely slow, and the thing I've been wondering all summer is why there isn't more talk around Alex Semin. Seems like he is the biggest name UFA left and there are hardly and posts about him anywhere.

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07-26-2012, 03:33 AM
  #991
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It's a toss up for me. Thorton has been providing progressively less offense and I think Couture has another gear. Might not happen till next year but I'm betting this year especially if he gets a healthy Havlat for more than 20 games. I think those 2 will do some damage once the establish some chemistry. God forbid they get a winger who isn't as slow as clowe and doesn't hang onto the puck so much...
Um..you do realize he scored more points this past year than the one prior right? Thats not progressively worse.

Also thornton has been going through a major overhaul of how he plays hockey the last 2ish years, couple that with a much more defense first, control the puck system and its no wonder his points dipped a little bit for a year. A lot of our players saw a dip in their points.

Thornton with a resurgent marleau, healthy havlat, maybe a new forward, or still improving cooch can once again increase his points this year in my mind.

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07-26-2012, 03:33 AM
  #992
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We talk about Sasha relatively a lot. There just hasn't been much new information to talk about. His camp has been very secretive.

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07-26-2012, 05:10 AM
  #993
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Um..you do realize he scored more points this past year than the one prior right? Thats not progressively worse.

Also thornton has been going through a major overhaul of how he plays hockey the last 2ish years, couple that with a much more defense first, control the puck system and its no wonder his points dipped a little bit for a year. A lot of our players saw a dip in their points.

Thornton with a resurgent marleau, healthy havlat, maybe a new forward, or still improving cooch can once again increase his points this year in my mind.

From the year he scored 125 he's been trending down. One year of a couple more points doesn't really upset the trend. Look I ain't down on Thorton because he's changing his game. I love what he's done. I just think he'll continue to score less as the game continues to change and he continues to mold himself into a shutdown center. I think that's where Couture will have a chance for the next year or two to maybe score more. When Thorton is done Couture will likely face the toughest matchups so this is going to be as easy as it gets for him offensively. As good as Couture has been, he'll likely have a season where he out performs the last 2. I think it will most likely happen in the next 2 years due to the strength of the team. He will only become more confident as he develops. This is still a young guy who is already one of the leading scorers on the team. I think if Pavs can continue to get better I believe Couture can as well.

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07-26-2012, 06:27 AM
  #994
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speaking of couture, looks like he's definitely working on his hands and "scoring" quite a bit this off season!

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Old
07-26-2012, 08:24 AM
  #995
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From the year he scored 125 he's been trending down. One year of a couple more points doesn't really upset the trend. Look I ain't down on Thorton because he's changing his game. I love what he's done. I just think he'll continue to score less as the game continues to change and he continues to mold himself into a shutdown center. I think that's where Couture will have a chance for the next year or two to maybe score more. When Thorton is done Couture will likely face the toughest matchups so this is going to be as easy as it gets for him offensively. As good as Couture has been, he'll likely have a season where he out performs the last 2. I think it will most likely happen in the next 2 years due to the strength of the team. He will only become more confident as he develops. This is still a young guy who is already one of the leading scorers on the team. I think if Pavs can continue to get better I believe Couture can as well.
As Thornton's biggest fanboy in the universe, I can assure you in a totally unbiased manner that Couture won't outscore Thornton, barring a horrible injury to Jumbo (which would suck. alot), for the next 3-4 seasons. Couture will outscore Jumbo once Jumbo becomes old man river or something.

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07-26-2012, 08:39 AM
  #996
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Thornton managed to finish 10th in NHL scoring and 2nd in assists despite facing some of the very toughest competition of any player in the NHL. He controlled games at a rate that no other player that has faced his level of competition ever has (since it began being tracked). Couture is fantastic, but without Thornton and Pavelski (two of the top possession players in the NHL) drawing an incredibly high caliber of opposition, he simply does not put up the numbers that he did.

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This was the season in which Thornton really emerged as a premier two-way force in the NHL, finishing top ten among forwards in quality of competition league-wide while starting more shifts in his own end of the rink than the offensive zone and still clobbering the opposition he faced territorially and in terms of goal difference. When Thornton was on the ice 5v5 this season, the Sharks recorded 409 scoring chances to their opponents' 297, a ridiculous 58% chance percentage that was very likely among the best in the league.

I can't stress the rarity of Thornton's accomplishments this season enough. Since Gabe Desjardins, Vic Ferrari and co. began tracking advanced statistics with the advent of the NHL's real-time scoring system in 2007, no forward has posted a better Relative Corsi rating than Thornton while facing the quality of competition Jumbo did this season or greater. To put it in other words, no one in the last five years has had better even-strength results than Thornton playing minutes as tough as he did in 11-12.
http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/6/14/...w-joe-thornton

Thornton is a better player today than he was in 2005-06. He is a better player today than he ever has been at any point his career. If you really think he is "trending downward", you are simply ignorant. Couture is a very important part of this team, and he will one day take over the mantle as the Sharks' top center. But he is not in the same league as Joe Thornton right now. Thornton's line (Pavelski and Marleau) faces absolutely ridiculous levels of competition. Couture is no slouch when it comes to facing top opposition, but he's still not going up against anything close to what Thornton is. And his possession metrics are still inferior to Joe's. Thornton is still one of the 5-7 best centers in the league, even at his age. Couture is not there yet. If you took Thornton of this team, I would not hesitate to say that they probably would be contending for the lottery. People will always look to play down one individual's impact on a team, but the truth is that Thornton's presence is the sole reason that the Sharks have been as great as they have been for as long as they have. As long as he is playing at a level like the one he currently is, they have a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley Cup.


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Old
07-26-2012, 09:35 AM
  #997
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I disagree entirely. Voracek is more ideal than either of Simmonds or Read. He's a great skater and a great playmaker and has great hands and creativity. Probably the things we need the most. Who cares if he's not that much of a finisher? We have Marleau and Couture and Pavelski to finish. Of course he's streaky. So's Couture. Doesn't really change my opinion of him.

Plus there's getting another Czech guy to be BFFLs with Havlat and Hertl. Voracek-Hertl-Havlat is the first line of the future.
The Sharks need goal scorers on their wings. Voracek isn't anything special when it comes to skating. He's not fast or quick or anything like that. Above average maybe but it's not something to be feared. As for great play-maker and great hands and creativity, we have Thornton, Clowe, Havlat, Pavelski, and Couture that are all equal to or better than Voracek in terms of those attributes. We don't need more of that. This team needs more goal scoring options and Voracek is not that at all. And his streakiness impacts every facet of his game. Couture is not streaky at all. He has maybe one or two slumps in a season...that's not streaky and even if it was, it doesn't impact his defensive game like it does with Voracek.

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07-26-2012, 09:59 AM
  #998
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I think DW is doing the smart thing waiting for the market to settle. I am guessing he waits till after Doan commits to whichever team and then seriously start working on a trade.

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07-26-2012, 10:23 AM
  #999
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Voracek signs in Philly, 4 years @ $4.25 million per

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07-26-2012, 10:26 AM
  #1000
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I think DW is doing the smart thing waiting for the market to settle. I am guessing he waits till after Doan commits to whichever team and then seriously start working on a trade.
I think the reality is we just don't have many trade assets since DW isn't willing/able to blow the team up. I bet we just get tweaks the next 2 seasons until the big contracts expire. I.e., more or less a stay-the-course approach for 2 seasons.

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