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Rick Nash+S. Delisle+cond. 3rd to NYR for Dubinsky+Anisimov+Erixon+2013 1st (Part II)

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07-26-2012, 09:50 AM
  #951
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If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.

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07-26-2012, 09:55 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Nash is on the fan with b and c right now.
Do u know if it'll be posted online? I'm at work and couldn't tune in

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07-26-2012, 10:05 AM
  #953
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Some Richards quotes

Quote:
"It's what we need. He's one of the best scorers and power forwards in the league. He brings us size and goal scoring."
On the pressure it may bring to the team

Quote:
"We're not going to hide from any of that here in this city. We want to be better anyway, no matter what, but you add a guy like him for sure, the bull's-eye is going to be on us this year."

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07-26-2012, 10:13 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.
I think both of those guys will have better production as time goes on. But all the what if scenerios are tiredless. We are a better team today than we were on Sunday.
For the first time that I can ever remember we are balanced & deep thoughout all 4 lines, all 3 defense pairings & have an elite goaltender.

This team reminds me of the 2002 Redwings, WITHOUT all the grey beards that team had.

We have a 3-5 year window to win now guys.

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07-26-2012, 10:18 AM
  #955
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I think both of those guys will have better production as time goes on. But all the what if scenerios are tiredless. We are a better team today than we were on Sunday.
For the first time that I can ever remember we are balanced & deep thoughout all 4 lines, all 3 defense pairings & have an elite goaltender.

This team reminds me of the 2002 Redwings, WITHOUT all the grey beards that team had.

We have a 3-5 year window to win now guys.
The "what ifs" can certainly get carried away, but I happen to think our bottom-six got weaker after this deal. Our top-six is far, far better than it was, but we did sacrifice from another area. It's a deal you have to make, but you need to address the other issues now.

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07-26-2012, 10:25 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The "what ifs" can certainly get carried away, but I happen to think our bottom-six got weaker after this deal. Our top-six is far, far better than it was, but we did sacrifice from another area. It's a deal you have to make, but you need to address the other issues now.

Oh I agree. I think our bottom 6 is bad- I think our 4th line last year wasn't that great and now it's arguably worse.

But if Nash can live up to the "it was the supporting cast around him" crowd, then upgrading the top 6 was more important than keeping the bottom 6.

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07-26-2012, 10:26 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The "what ifs" can certainly get carried away, but I happen to think our bottom-six got weaker after this deal. Our top-six is far, far better than it was, but we did sacrifice from another area. It's a deal you have to make, but you need to address the other issues now.
How do you see us being weaker?

Pyatt is an offensive upgrade to the 3rd line, Halpren is an upgrade as 4th line center, a 4th line center that is a bonafide faceoff guy & won't hurt you overall. Asham is Asham, he is a knock around guy but he has been around the leauge & knows his role.

One concern I would have is that Brian Boyle being the 3rd line center maybe the weakest spot on the team.

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07-26-2012, 10:35 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The "what ifs" can certainly get carried away, but I happen to think our bottom-six got weaker after this deal. Our top-six is far, far better than it was, but we did sacrifice from another area. It's a deal you have to make, but you need to address the other issues now.
I agree, which is why I am much more on board with bringing in Doan than I was pre-Nash deal. Sliding Hagelin and/or Kreider down to the 3rd line where they can learn the game and not be depended heavily upon when it comes to offense would be ideal.

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07-26-2012, 10:39 AM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
How do you see us being weaker?

Pyatt is an offensive upgrade to the 3rd line, Halpren is an upgrade as 4th line center, a 4th line center that is a bonafide faceoff guy & won't hurt you overall. Asham is Asham, he is a knock around guy but he has been around the leauge & knows his role.

One concern I would have is that Brian Boyle being the 3rd line center maybe the weakest spot on the team.
Halpern looked abysmal late last season. He's a guy that I would have loved 3 or 4 years ago, but not so much right now. He's a spare forward at this stage in his career. Asham is a good banger, but he's not really a puck possession player, which is part of what killed us in the Jersey series. That 4th line pinned us in our own end for entire shifts. He also takes plenty of stupid penalties.

Pyatt is a good player, but he's streaky as hell. I like him as a 3rd liner, but I'd love him as a 4th liner.

Our bottom-six looks like this:

Hagelin/Kreider - Boyle - Pyatt
Rupp - Halpern - Asham

I think that's worse than it was last year. Especially that 4th line. I'd rather see Newbury on the 4th line than Halpern.

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07-26-2012, 10:40 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.
That was the risk of the trade, and the prospect of it coming to pass is why the move still doesn't sit right with me.

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07-26-2012, 10:41 AM
  #961
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I hope Halpern is at least an upgrade on faceoffs because that killed for at least 25 goals last year.

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07-26-2012, 10:42 AM
  #962
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Tell you what people...The "bulleye is on us" talk is exactly the same move the Chicago Blackhawks did that offseason prior to winning the cup. They signed Hossa to that deal and that guy helped them win the Cup

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07-26-2012, 10:47 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree, which is why I am much more on board with bringing in Doan than I was pre-Nash deal. Sliding Hagelin and/or Kreider down to the 3rd line where they can learn the game and not be depended heavily upon when it comes to offense would be ideal.
I agree. Bringing in Doan is a solid move. I just wonder how the lines shake out with having three top-six RW's in the fold. Still doesn't resolve the depth at center either. Then again, Tortorella loves Boyle, so I'm not sure depth at center is a problem in the eyes of the powers that be.

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07-26-2012, 10:49 AM
  #964
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Tell you what people...The "bulleye is on us" talk is exactly the same move the Chicago Blackhawks did that offseason prior to winning the cup. They signed Hossa to that deal and that guy helped them win the Cup
The problem is there isn't a "I want to win a cup" player like Hossa on the market today. Doan wants security for his family, and Semin wants money. Outside of that, the market is barren.

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07-26-2012, 10:49 AM
  #965
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Similar to last season, it seems like we have too many 4th liners in the bottom 6 and not enough 3rd liners.

Boyle and Pyatt are 3rd-4th line tweeners. Their production may be less than prototypical 3rd liners in this league.

I like Halpern because of his faceoff ability, but I assumed he would be a spare forward on occasion. He was a healthy scratch for the Caps in the playoffs. It wouldn't hurt for Rupp to be a healthy scratch every now and then either. But there really isn't enough depth at the moment to have the luxury of going those players nights off.

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07-26-2012, 10:53 AM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.

I think you're overreacting about the potential negative effect this trade could have on this team and overestimating both Dubinsky and Anisimov's ceiling Few things:

1) Dubinksy is not only a 30-30 player now, he really never has been in his entire career (save his second season in Portland). He's more Kris Draper than he is John Leclaire. He's a decent second liner and a very good third liner on a good team. And he's been passed over on the depth chart by not only Callahan but by Kreider and Hagelin. He's also entering his 6th season in the league and I'm not sure how much more developing he's going to do. He'll likely improve on his numbers from last season because he will get more ice time and his numbers were that bad this season.

2) Anisimov is a nice two way player but not a guy I see as being a shutdown center.

3) Even if these two do pan out, I fail to see how this deal could come back to haunt the Rangers. Both players seem to have been jumped on the team's depth chart and have the same flaw — poor hockey sense. Dubinsky seems to have no clue who he is as player. Anisimov has talent that his head doesn't match. Not sure his heart does either. It's their lack of hockey IQ that makes them inconsistent. It's also, IMO, the hardest thing to teach and instill.

Regardless, I'm not sure either player was in the Rangers long term plans.

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07-26-2012, 10:57 AM
  #967
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Halpern looked abysmal late last season. He's a guy that I would have loved 3 or 4 years ago, but not so much right now. He's a spare forward at this stage in his career. Asham is a good banger, but he's not really a puck possession player, which is part of what killed us in the Jersey series. That 4th line pinned us in our own end for entire shifts. He also takes plenty of stupid penalties.

Pyatt is a good player, but he's streaky as hell. I like him as a 3rd liner, but I'd love him as a 4th liner.

Our bottom-six looks like this:

Hagelin/Kreider - Boyle - Pyatt
Rupp - Halpern - Asham

I think that's worse than it was last year. Especially that 4th line. I'd rather see Newbury on the 4th line than Halpern.
Looking at the 4th line I would think that Rupp would have to be the odd man out. Judgeing by what he did last year injured or not Rupp isn't a full time player anymore.
The 4th line lacks speed as well.

Halpren is here to win faceoffs & from what I have read he is a "Torts" guy so I think his addition is a plus.

I guess things look better if we sign Doan or Semin, & i'm not sure If I would want Sather to spend big money on either of those guys. I think Sather figures he can upgrade by a trade, training camp signing or one of the kids winning a job in camp.

Either way today were still pretty deep & a much better team than we were a week ago.

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07-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #968
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The problem is there isn't a "I want to win a cup" player like Hossa on the market today. Doan wants security for his family, and Semin wants money. Outside of that, the market is barren.
Doan want's a cup. Hossa's deal wasn't exactly cheap. When he signed for one year in Detriot he was much younger than Doan is now.

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07-26-2012, 11:04 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.
Let me put it this way. BEST CASE SECENERIO. Dubi & AA become this generations version of Amote & weight have nice sucessful never ending careers, & we get a cup sooner rather than later.

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07-26-2012, 11:07 AM
  #970
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IF. Brandon Dubinsky has scored 18 goals since the end of 2010. He had 16 goals in the first half of 10-11 and then it was struggle for him to surpass his career high of 20 goals. He was in and out of the Torts doghouse last season. The Rangers were the top seed in the east and went to EC finals with Dubinsky barely making any significant contribution. Now he is going to Columbus which will be the worst team in the NHL and his wife will be complaining about living in Columbus,Ohio instead of the Upper East Side.

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07-26-2012, 11:13 AM
  #971
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Similar to last season, it seems like we have too many 4th liners in the bottom 6 and not enough 3rd liners.

Boyle and Pyatt are 3rd-4th line tweeners. Their production may be less than prototypical 3rd liners in this league.

I like Halpern because of his faceoff ability, but I assumed he would be a spare forward on occasion. He was a healthy scratch for the Caps in the playoffs. It wouldn't hurt for Rupp to be a healthy scratch every now and then either. But there really isn't enough depth at the moment to have the luxury of going those players nights off.
add doan and after gabby returns you have hagelin and 1 of kreider/doan/cally on the 3rd line. boyle isn't the ideal #3 center but you still have 2/3 of that line made of guys that played in the top 6 last year. thats pretty solid in my book

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07-26-2012, 11:17 AM
  #972
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I think Nash has a better chance of being a first pairing, shut-down defenseman than Dubinsky does finding consistency.

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07-26-2012, 11:20 AM
  #973
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I think Nash has a better chance of being a first pairing, shut-down defenseman than Dubinsky does finding consistency.
I agree, I can't wait to see them pair Nash with McDonagh

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07-26-2012, 11:22 AM
  #974
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If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.
I don't think either of those players have that capability and certainly neither of them are the same kind of scoring threat that Nash is

edit: A third line of Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt should be as good or better than Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko. Prust and Feds aren't particularly effective offensively, where Hagelin and Pyatt should improve that. Boyle is Boyle...could have a better year than last year, hard to say. You lose some physicality in Prust but gain speed and tenacity and scoring ability with Hagelin.

I'd still like to improve on that line but it's not worse than last year.

The 4th line is pretty "meh" but Tortorella isn't exactly a huge 4th line kind of guy. For all the handwringing about the Devils 4th line, it also wasn't put together until the very end of the season (the last game of the season was the only regular season game that Gionta played in that season) and Bernier had been playing on the 3rd line up until then.

I make that point because it illustrates how lineups change through the year and acquiring players, calling up prospects, etc, can alter how the lineup looks. The Rangers 4th line might be pretty mediocre now, but it could look markedly different by the end of the year, either because of a deadline acquisition, or someone like Miller getting called up and taking over a third line spot, etc


Last edited by Levitate: 07-26-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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07-26-2012, 11:26 AM
  #975
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i agree, i can't wait to see them pair nash with mcdonagh
why would you break up mcdonagh and girardi!!!!

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