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Ward, Kasper, and Jagr out from practice

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Old
04-23-2006, 01:05 PM
  #1
True Blue Bleed Blue
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Ward, Kasper, and Jagr out from practice

According to Joe Micheletti's live report from NYR practice just now on NBC, all 3 missed practice, Jagr is listed as questionable. I'd expect Kasper will play, and Ward will be out.

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04-23-2006, 01:38 PM
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Son of Steinbrenner
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No matter what happens the Rangers should dress Colton Orr. I mean the guy can hit, fight, skate, get renney a hot dog, and sharpen a more important players skate. Come on Renney dress Colton Orr!

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04-23-2006, 01:39 PM
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polako
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yeah, i heard the nbc report also. great game so far between the oilers and wings.

idk, i just have a hard time believing that jagr won't play tommorow. i'm assuming ward won't play since he did not practice. just trying to conceive some lines for tommorow...

w/ jagr:
straka-nylander-jagr
prucha-rucchin-sykora
hollweg-betts-hossa
orr-moore-ortmeyer

w/o jagr:
straka-nylander-sykora
prucha-rucchin-hossa
hollweg-betts-moore
orr-immonen-ortmeyer

im just looking at this, and wow, rangers forwards get really exposes without jagr

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04-23-2006, 01:40 PM
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Entrancemperium
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Have we really seen enough of Orr to make jokes about his usefullness? If the Flyers can find a use for Brashear then surely Orr has his uses

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04-23-2006, 01:42 PM
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dedalus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako
im just looking at this, and wow, rangers forwards get really exposes without jagr
Yep. It's an okay team but it definitely needs more time and bodies to turn it into something worthwhile.

Without Jagr the offense is exposed. Without a goalie playing in top form the defense is exposed.

All this yields one conclusion: the team isn't yet good/deep enough.

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04-23-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrancemperium
Have we really seen enough of Orr to make jokes about his usefullness? If the Flyers can find a use for Brashear then surely Orr has his uses
Maybe. Ask the Flyers board about Brashear and they'll tell you that the Flyers really HAVEN'T found a use for Brashear. The great majority of posters over there want Brashear gone ... and Brashear has shown a lot more in this league than Orr has.

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04-23-2006, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
Yep. It's an okay team but it definitely needs more time and bodies to turn it into something worthwhile.

Without Jagr the offense is exposed. Without a goalie playing in top form the defense is exposed.

All this yields one conclusion: the team isn't yet good/deep enough.
Take Messier and Richter away from the 94 Rangers and how good would they look?

Take Sakic and Roy away from the Avs how good would they have looked?

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04-23-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako
yeah, i heard the nbc report also. great game so far between the oilers and wings.

idk, i just have a hard time believing that jagr won't play tommorow. i'm assuming ward won't play since he did not practice. just trying to conceive some lines for tommorow...

w/ jagr:
straka-nylander-jagr
prucha-rucchin-sykora
hollweg-betts-hossa
orr-moore-ortmeyer

w/o jagr:
straka-nylander-sykora
prucha-rucchin-hossa
hollweg-betts-moore
orr-immonen-ortmeyer

im just looking at this, and wow, rangers forwards get really exposes without jagr
What about Rucinsky?...Is he definitely a no go for Game 2?

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Old
04-23-2006, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
Take Messier and Richter away from the 94 Rangers and how good would they look?

Take Sakic and Roy away from the Avs how good would they have looked?
So you're saying that this a Cup championship team if only Jagr and Lundqvist are playing? Sorry, their record doesn't support you.

Maybe if you compare the entire rosters of those Av and Ranger teams to the entire roster of this team you'll catch up to the rest of the class. Because that's what I'm talking about: the team. The WHOLE team.

When this team has a Leetch (much less a Zubov BEHIND a Leetch), when this team has a Beukeboom (much less a Lowe BEHIND a Beukeboom), when this team has a Larmer playing on the second line (or a Forsberg!), your point will gainan ounce of merit. Until than you're drowning with the comparison.

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04-23-2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
So you're saying that this a Cup championship team if only Jagr and Lundqvist are playing? Sorry, their record doesn't support you.

Maybe if you compare the entire rosters of those Av and Ranger teams to the entire roster of this team you'll catch up to the rest of the class. Because that's what I'm talking about: the team. The WHOLE team.
No I'm saying take the two best players away from teams you are going to be left exposed.

Let's try it your way

Take Marty and Gianta away from the Devils and what do you get?


Somebody that has been wrong as much as you this season shouldn't be telling anyone to catch up to the class.

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04-23-2006, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
No I'm saying take the two best players away from teams you are going to be left exposed.
That depends on what's left, doesn't it? If Forsberg is the guy that steps in to fill in for Sakic, you can still win a championship. If Heatley is the guy who fills in for Alfredsson, you can still win a championship. If Blake is the guy who fills in for Bourque, you can still win a championship.

This is my point. This team isn't good enough to sustain losses or bad play from its best players. Other teams are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
Somebody that has been wrong as much as you this season shouldn't be telling anyone to catch up to the class.
I'm not as wrong as you think, dude. I called this team a.500 team at the beginning of the season. They ended up six games over that mark, and their record against the other Eastern playoff teams is under .500. It would be even further under .500 if the league played its regular season as it does its playoff: without a shootout.

In fact, win/loss record puts me closer to an accurate assessment of this team than you.

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Old
04-23-2006, 02:05 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako
yeah, i heard the nbc report also. great game so far between the oilers and wings.

idk, i just have a hard time believing that jagr won't play tommorow. i'm assuming ward won't play since he did not practice. just trying to conceive some lines for tommorow...

w/ jagr:
straka-nylander-jagr
prucha-rucchin-sykora
hollweg-betts-hossa
orr-moore-ortmeyer

w/o jagr:
straka-nylander-sykora
prucha-rucchin-hossa
hollweg-betts-moore
orr-immonen-ortmeyer

im just looking at this, and wow, rangers forwards get really exposes without jagr
I am not a fun of those lines at all. Let's say Jagr can't play, I'd go with:
Prucha-Nylander-Sykora
Straka-Rucchin-Hossa
Immonen-Moore-Ortmeyer
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

If Jagr can play:
Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Rucchin-Sykora
Hossa-Moore-Ortmeyer
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

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Old
04-23-2006, 02:06 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue
I am not a fun of those lines at all. Let's say Jagr can't play, I'd go with:
Prucha-Nylander-Sykora
Straka-Rucchin-Hossa
Immonen-Moore-Ortmeyer
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

If Jagr can play:
Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Rucchin-Sykora
Hossa-Moore-Ortmeyer
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

Immonen cant play wing, he pretty much has to be a center.

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Old
04-23-2006, 02:15 PM
  #14
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
That depends on what's left, doesn't it? If Forsberg is the guy that steps in to fill in for Sakic, you can still win a championship. If Heatley is the guy who fills in for Alfredsson, you can still win a championship. If Blake is the guy who fills in for Bourque, you can still win a championship.

This is my point. This team isn't good enough to sustain losses or bad play from its best players. Other teams are.


I'm not as wrong as you think, dude. I called this team a.500 team at the beginning of the season. They ended up six games over that mark, and their record against the other Eastern playoff teams is under .500. It would be even further under .500 if the league played its regular season as it does its playoff: without a shootout.

In fact, win/loss record puts me closer to an accurate assessment of this team than you.
5 games over 500? How many games over 500 are the Devils using your math? What about the Flyers. Your plain wrong lets look how Rodent had things....


2006 2004

# TM W L OTL PTS GF GA | TM W L T OTL PT GF GA
=EASTERN====================|===================== ======
1 OTT 52 21 9 113 314 211 | OTT 50 21 8 3 111 312 205
2 CAR 52 22 8 112 294 260 | CAR 44 22 10 6 104 286 258
3 NJD 46 27 9 101 242 229 | PHI 41 26 10 5 97 263 253
4 BUF 52 24 6 110 281 239 | BUF 47 24 10 1 105 276 234
5 PHI 45 26 11 101 267 259 | NYR 37 26 11 8 93 250 211
6 NYR 44 26 12 100 257 215 | NJD 37 27 13 5 92 233 225
7 MTL 42 31 9 93 243 247 | MTL 40 31 5 6 91 241 244
8 TBL 43 33 6 92 252 260 | TOR 38 33 10 1 87 254 263
--------------------------------------------------------
9 TOR 41 33 8 90 257 270 | TBL 37 33 10 2 86 246 256
10 ATL 41 33 8 90 281 275 | ATL 36 33 10 3 85 276 270
11 FLA 37 34 11 85 240 257 | FLA 33 34 9 6 81 236 252
12 NYI 36 40 6 78 230 278 | BOS 27 37 10 8 72 228 258
13 BOS 29 37 16 74 230 266 | NYI 27 40 12 3 69 221 275
14 WSH 29 41 12 70 237 306 | WSH 22 41 13 6 63 230 300
15 PIT 22 46 14 58 244 316 | PIT 21 46 7 8 57 243 310
=WESTERN====================|===================== ======
1 DET 58 16 8 124 305 209 | DET 54 16 7 5 120 301 206
2 DAL 53 23 6 112 265 218 | CGY 44 25 9 4 101 216 193
3 CGY 46 25 11 103 218 200 | DAL 41 23 13 5 100 253 217
4 NSH 49 25 8 106 259 227 | NSH 43 25 9 5 100 253 224
5 SJS 44 27 11 99 266 242 | SJS 43 27 8 4 98 265 235
6 ANA 43 27 12 98 254 229 | ANA 40 27 10 5 95 251 222
7 COL 43 30 9 95 283 257 | COL 40 30 9 3 92 280 251
8 EDM 41 28 13 95 256 251 | VAN 38 32 8 4 88 252 251
--------------------------------------------------------
9 VAN 42 32 8 92 256 255 | EDM 34 28 16 4 88 249 242
10 LAK 42 35 5 89 249 270 | LAK 36 35 7 4 83 243 269
11 MIN 38 36 8 84 231 215 | MIN 33 36 8 5 79 226 212
12 PHX 38 39 5 81 246 271 | PHX 34 39 7 2 77 242 268
13 CBJ 35 43 4 74 223 279 | CBJ 27 43 11 1 66 215 276
14 CHI 26 43 13 65 211 285 | CHI 24 43 8 7 63 209 279
15 STL 21 46 15 57 197 292 | STL 17 46 12 7 53 193 284


Ok lets look at things without getting a point in overtime

2006 2 pts for win only

# TM W L OTL PTS GF GA | TM W L T PTS GF GA
=EASTERN====================|===================== ====
1 OTT 52 21 9 113 314 211 | OTT 50 24 8 100 312 205
2 CAR 52 22 8 112 294 260 | CAR 44 28 10 88 286 258
3 NJD 46 27 9 101 242 229 | PHI 41 31 10 82 263 253
4 BUF 52 24 6 110 281 239 | BUF 47 25 10 94 276 234
5 PHI 45 26 11 101 267 259 | MTL 40 37 5 80 241 244
6 NYR 44 26 12 100 257 215 | TOR 38 34 10 76 254 263
7 MTL 42 31 9 93 243 247 | NYR 37 34 11 74 250 211
8 TBL 43 33 6 92 252 260 | NJD 37 32 13 74 233 225
------------------------------------------------------
9 TOR 41 33 8 90 257 270 | TBL 37 35 10 74 246 256
10 ATL 41 33 8 90 281 275 | ATL 36 36 10 72 276 270
11 FLA 37 34 11 85 240 257 | FLA 33 40 9 66 236 252
12 NYI 36 40 6 78 230 278 | NYI 27 43 12 54 221 275
13 BOS 29 37 16 74 230 266 | BOS 27 45 10 54 228 258
14 WSH 29 41 12 70 237 306 | WSH 22 47 13 44 230 300
15 PIT 22 46 14 58 244 316 | PIT 21 54 7 42 243 310
=WESTERN====================|===================== ====
1 DET 58 16 8 124 305 209 | DET 54 21 7 108 301 206
2 DAL 53 23 6 112 265 218 | CGY 44 29 9 88 216 193
3 CGY 46 25 11 103 218 200 | SJS 43 31 8 86 265 235
4 NSH 49 25 8 106 259 227 | NSH 43 30 9 86 253 224
5 SJS 44 27 11 99 266 242 | DAL 41 28 13 82 253 217
6 ANA 43 27 12 98 254 229 | COL 40 33 9 80 280 251
7 COL 43 30 9 95 283 257 | ANA 40 32 10 80 251 222
8 EDM 41 28 13 95 256 251 | VAN 38 36 8 76 252 251
------------------------------------------------------
9 VAN 42 32 8 92 256 255 | LAK 36 39 7 72 243 269
10 LAK 42 35 5 89 249 270 | EDM 34 32 16 68 249 242
11 MIN 38 36 8 84 231 215 | PHX 34 41 7 68 242 268
12 PHX 38 39 5 81 246 271 | MIN 33 41 8 66 226 212
13 CBJ 35 43 4 74 223 279 | CBJ 27 44 11 54 215 276
14 CHI 26 43 13 65 211 285 | CHI 24 50 8 48 209 279
15 STL 21 46 15 57 197 292 | STL 17 53 12 34 193 284


In this case the Rangers are still in the playoffs and wait a second the Rangers and Devils are a pretty even team. Teams have received a point for overtime losses for how many years now?

BTW all this info can be found right here................

http://hockeyrodent.com/MESSAGEBOARD?D=102.3530.1

Saying the Rangers don't have the depth to withstand an injury while "select" other teams can is a awful thin argument. (not as bad as someone comparing Larmer to Forseberg) The Rangers do have support players (Sykora, Prucha) and going into the season the Rangers defense was suspect. What were the Rangers supposed to do though? They could've probably overpaid or spent future assets to develop the defense but than they get killed by fans and media for abandoning the rebuild. This team is what it is and this isn't the time to take away from a great season.

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Old
04-23-2006, 02:18 PM
  #15
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If Jagr and Ward can't play and Renney doesn't want to bring a youngster up from the farm, they'll end up just putting in Strudwick and Orr to fill in for Jagr and Ward. Prucha will be moved up to the 2nd line to play with Hossa and Rucchin...Strudwick and Orr will fill lower line minutes.

It's not the best solution but I highly doubt that Renney puts any youngsters in the lineup now. I've always felt that he's the type of coach that likes to stick with the team that got him here.

Assuming that Struds/Orr are put in, here are my line combos:

Straka-Nylander-Sykora
Prucha-Rucchin-Hossa
Hollweg-Moore-Orr
Strudwick-Betts-Ortmeyer

I'd like to keep the HMO Line together but if you do that, having Struds and Orr on the same line would be horrible. Two guys who can barely skate out there with a guy who has decent speed in Betts won't do well. Hollweg and Moore's speed and ability can make up for Orr's below average ability. Ortmeyer and to an extent Betts can make up for Strudwick's lack of speed and endurance.

Who knows, the 3rd/4th lines might not matter that much anyway. If we keep taking penalties like we did in Game 1, there's no way we will roll 4 lines.

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04-23-2006, 02:19 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue
I am not a fun of those lines at all. Let's say Jagr can't play, I'd go with:
Prucha-Nylander-Sykora
Straka-Rucchin-Hossa
Immonen-Moore-Ortmeyer
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

If Jagr can play:
Prucha-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Rucchin-Sykora
Hossa-Moore-Ortmeyer
Hollweg-Betts-Orr
Not bad TBBB but if Jagr can't go I'd be inclined to call up Dawes because Nigel has real goal scoring ability. I'm also not sure that Rucchin looked too comfortable out there. Mr. Unspoken also points out quite correctly that Jarkko has always played center--he is also better on faceoffs than Dominic so Moore should be the one to go to LW. As for Colton that's also a questionmark for me. He would have one major purpose to add a physical dimension which we badly need but I'm not convinced he can keep up or that he can negate a Janssens or a Marshall without taking an unneeded penalty. We do seem to have a hole or two right now.

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04-23-2006, 02:27 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
5 games over 500? How many games over 500 are the Devils using your math? What about the Flyers. Your plain wrong lets look how Rodent had things....
"My" math is simple. The Rangers won 44 games and lost 38. I don't know how much simpler math can get.

They won 7 games in shootouts and lost 3 games in shootouts. I've included them even though they clearly make the Rangers look better than they actually are because they grant a win which was earned by a contest rather than by actual play. But even with that massive edge in shootouts, the Rangers are only 6 games over .500.

Against the other Eastern playoff participants their record is 16-20. (4 of those 16 are shootout wins - which is to say 25% of their wins agaisnt these teams were earned because the Rangers are better on breakaways contests than their opponent.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
Saying the Rangers don't have the depth to withstand an injury while "select" other teams can is a awful thin argument.
LOL! Well then maybe you should select other teams because I used your examples!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
(not as bad as someone comparing Larmer to Forseberg)
Who compared Larmer to Forsberg? I wrote that both played on their team's second line. Do you debate that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
( The Rangers do have support players (Sykora, Prucha) and going into the season the Rangers defense was suspect. What were the Rangers supposed to do though?
Nothing at all. You misunderstand me. I'm not criticizing the Rangers or the job Sather did this year. The team is what it is: a nice little team team in need of further development and improvement.

Or, to quote my first post on this subject: "It's an okay team but it definitely needs more time and bodies to turn it into something worthwhile ... All this yields one conclusion: the team isn't yet good/deep enough."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
This team is what it is and this isn't the time to take away from a great season.
Who's taking away from a great season? I declared it asuccessful season as soon as it was clear that the team had moved forward the development of their kids. Nothing this team does or fails to do in the playoffs changes the success of this season.

The win/loss thing is YOUR bag not mine.

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Old
04-23-2006, 02:47 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LundmarkFan
If Jagr and Ward can't play and Renney doesn't want to bring a youngster up from the farm, they'll end up just putting in Strudwick and Orr to fill in for Jagr and Ward. Prucha will be moved up to the 2nd line to play with Hossa and Rucchin...Strudwick and Orr will fill lower line minutes.

It's not the best solution but I highly doubt that Renney puts any youngsters in the lineup now. I've always felt that he's the type of coach that likes to stick with the team that got him here.

Assuming that Struds/Orr are put in, here are my line combos:

Straka-Nylander-Sykora
Prucha-Rucchin-Hossa
Hollweg-Moore-Orr
Strudwick-Betts-Ortmeyer

I'd like to keep the HMO Line together but if you do that, having Struds and Orr on the same line would be horrible. Two guys who can barely skate out there with a guy who has decent speed in Betts won't do well. Hollweg and Moore's speed and ability can make up for Orr's below average ability. Ortmeyer and to an extent Betts can make up for Strudwick's lack of speed and endurance.

Who knows, the 3rd/4th lines might not matter that much anyway. If we keep taking penalties like we did in Game 1, there's no way we will roll 4 lines.
Why would you not switch Jed and Orr, come on.

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Old
04-23-2006, 03:01 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue
Why would you not switch Jed and Orr, come on.
Like I said in my post, having Orr and Strudwick on the same line would hurt our team more than help it. There skating ability and just overall playing ability isn't very good. If the Devils put some speedy players out there against a line of Strudwick-Betts-Orr, it's going to be hard for our forwards to backcheck. That's why if Ortmeyer is put on that line alongside Strudwick and Betts, you have at least two speedy guys on each line that can help backcheck and stop the Devils from going into the zone easily. Moore and Hollweg can make up for Orr's lack of playing ability and Betts/Ortmeyer make up for Strudwick's lack of playing ability up front. It's simple, just balance out the bottom two lines. Putting the HMO Line together is nice but it won't be the deciding factor in beating NJ. Hollweg-Moore-Orr could do just fine, as well as Strudwick-Betts-Ortmeyer, as long as they dump the puck and try to create chances down low. It's a very simple concept and the Rangers are just making it difficult for themselves by not following it.

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04-23-2006, 03:28 PM
  #20
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I don't think you can count Jagr out of the lineup just yet, and with the line combo's Renneys come up with of late, it's anyones guess what they'll look like on Monday

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