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Rick Nash+S. Delisle+cond. 3rd to NYR for Dubinsky+Anisimov+Erixon+2013 1st (Part II)

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07-26-2012, 11:29 AM
  #976
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Nash as a d-man would make his 59 points last year more than acceptable...

...So does MDZ become top line LWer?

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07-26-2012, 11:30 AM
  #977
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Yeah, Dubi is a good third liner, who can fill in on 2nd line duties occasionally...but he hasn't shown anything to suggest he is an everyday 2nd line player in this league.

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07-26-2012, 11:31 AM
  #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
How do you see us being weaker?

Pyatt is an offensive upgrade to the 3rd line, Halpren is an upgrade as 4th line center, a 4th line center that is a bonafide faceoff guy & won't hurt you overall. Asham is Asham, he is a knock around guy but he has been around the leauge & knows his role.

One concern I would have is that Brian Boyle being the 3rd line center maybe the weakest spot on the team.
We are weaker down the middle. But it's easier to obtain a 3rd line center than a 1st line winger.

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07-26-2012, 11:35 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
Let me put it this way. BEST CASE SECENERIO. Dubi & AA become this generations version of Amote & weight have nice sucessful never ending careers, & we get a cup sooner rather than later.
Tony Amonte had 75 goals in his 1st years as a Ranger. Don't compare these guys to Amonte or even Doug Weight. Dubinsky has 81 goals in his career. Dubinsky is good player. He took a major step back last season. Best season of his career followed by the worst season of his career after getting $17M. I like Brandon but the Rangers made a solid trade for Nash.

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07-26-2012, 11:37 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
We are weaker down the middle. But it's easier to obtain a 3rd line center than a 1st line winger.
I'd also point out that Dubinsky and Anisimov were playing wing for most of last season, though Dubinsky would still take draws at times.

But realistically, in terms of how they were used last year, the Rangers traded two wingers for 1 winger, and have another winger (Kreider) in place to fill the remaining roster hole.

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07-26-2012, 11:42 AM
  #981
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You know what guy's, Dubi is gone. What's done is done. I loved this kid, but he just dropped off the end of the map for me. He's not a New York Ranger. I focus on my team. Any thing else is a waste of my time.

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07-26-2012, 12:03 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.
Wow, and I thought I was negative. No offense but Dubinsky and Anisimov are what they are; nice players who aren't top 6 forwards on the Rangers and are not all of a sudden gonna morph into these wildly productive players. The trade we made for Nash was a terrific deal and exactly what this team needs.

Don't be shocked if the Blue Jackets try to move Dubi by the trade deadline next year if his disappearance act continues in Columbus.

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07-26-2012, 12:08 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Nash as a d-man would make his 59 points last year more than acceptable...

...So does MDZ become top line LWer?
You're a real comedian; did you ever do a standup act before? I'll betcha that Nash puts up a minimum of 20-25 points more than Del Zotto does this year plus Nash also won't skate around like he was never introduced to his position before.

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07-26-2012, 12:11 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Tony Amonte had 75 goals in his 1st years as a Ranger. Don't compare these guys to Amonte or even Doug Weight. Dubinsky has 81 goals in his career. Dubinsky is good player. He took a major step back last season. Best season of his career followed by the worst season of his career after getting $17M. I like Brandon but the Rangers made a solid trade for Nash.
Seriously....

Weight and Amonte are a notch below HOF. The guys we traded are NOWHERE IN THE SAME STRATOSPHERE.

Weight was one of the 10 best playmakers of his generation

Amonte was one of the 10 best snipers of his generation

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07-26-2012, 12:12 PM
  #985
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Dubinsky did not get much pwp time last year after leading the team in scoring the year before. That's in part due to his crap start--part due to the Rangers having a better mix of skill players to choose from. Gaborik and Del Zotto rebounded--Richards came in.

I expect that Columbus is going to give him plenty of everything. He really is a 2nd liner at least on a majority of NHL teams. 54 points in 10-11 actually borders on first line on a lot of teams. Scoring is not what it used to be and sometimes even points are misleading. For instance in the case of P. A. Parenteau who benefited from playing with a great young center and who apart from his point totals is a useless player.

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07-26-2012, 12:14 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
We are weaker down the middle. But it's easier to obtain a 3rd line center than a 1st line winger.
We were one of the weakest teams down the middle(of all the so called top tier teams) before the trade. Neither Dubi nor Anni were playing all that much at the center position to begin with. We could go out tom'w and sign a guy on the cheap like Arnott and we would be no worse off at center than we were before the trade!

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07-26-2012, 12:15 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Dubinsky and Anisimov can get over their inconsistency and become the players I think they can be, there's a really good chance that the Rangers come out on the wrong end of this deal. It makes sense now, because Dubinsky isn't a 30-30 powerforward, and Anisimov isn't a 45 point shutdown center, but if they can reach that level, and Nash doesn't put us over the top, this trade could haunt us for a long time.
Not sure if serious.

This makes me laugh...like a lot.

The overvaluation continues...I see.

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07-26-2012, 12:16 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
I think both of those guys will have better production as time goes on. But all the what if scenerios are tiredless. We are a better team today than we were on Sunday.
For the first time that I can ever remember we are balanced & deep thoughout all 4 lines, all 3 defense pairings & have an elite goaltender.

This team reminds me of the 2002 Redwings, WITHOUT all the grey beards that team had.

We have a 3-5 year window to win now guys.
Nice post but I think our window to win a cup is closer to 3 years.

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07-26-2012, 12:19 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Not sure if serious.

This makes me laugh...like a lot.

The overvaluation continues...I see.
Aint it the truth though. I can't believe some people think that giving up Dubinsky and Anisimov may come back to haunt us!

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07-26-2012, 12:22 PM
  #990
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damn, i'm kinda mad MZA left now. He would be perfect for our 3rd line.

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07-26-2012, 12:25 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree, which is why I am much more on board with bringing in Doan than I was pre-Nash deal. Sliding Hagelin and/or Kreider down to the 3rd line where they can learn the game and not be depended heavily upon when it comes to offense would be ideal.
That's a big old "hell yeah" from me.
If we can sign Doan to a reasonable contract(say 3 yrs with an option for a 4th year at 5-5.8 mil) than that's a move ya gotta make assuming he wants to play here and the Phoenix ownership soap opera continues it's unprecented lengthy run!

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07-26-2012, 12:32 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
That's a big old "hell yeah" from me.
If we can sign Doan to a reasonable contract(say 3 yrs with an option for a 4th year at 5-5.8 mil) than that's a move ya gotta make assuming he wants to play here and the Phoenix ownership soap opera continues it's unprecented lengthy run!
There are no option years. Not allowed in the CBA. And we can't afford to give Doan that much for 2+ years and still have money to sign everyone we want to keep.

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07-26-2012, 12:37 PM
  #993
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I'm not sure where I said "the Rangers definitively lose this trade" or "Dubinsky and Anisimov ARE the players I think they COULD be" but an awful lot of people are taking it that way.

Considering two posts later I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The "what ifs" can certainly get carried away, but I happen to think our bottom-six got weaker after this deal. Our top-six is far, far better than it was, but we did sacrifice from another area. It's a deal you have to make, but you need to address the other issues now.
I see the overreaction on this boards is alive and well.

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07-26-2012, 12:37 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Tony Amonte had 75 goals in his 1st years as a Ranger. Don't compare these guys to Amonte or even Doug Weight. Dubinsky has 81 goals in his career. Dubinsky is good player. He took a major step back last season. Best season of his career followed by the worst season of his career after getting $17M. I like Brandon but the Rangers made a solid trade for Nash.
? which Amonte?

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07-26-2012, 12:38 PM
  #995
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There are no option years. Not allowed in the CBA. And we can't afford to give Doan that much for 2+ years and still have money to sign everyone we want to keep.
Good point. I still believe Sather isn't done dealing yet though.

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07-26-2012, 12:39 PM
  #996
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Most Rangers fans are convinced that the trade is a steal so they refuse to consider other alternatives. Hockey is unpredictable, we could be looking back at this five years from now without a cup victory and wondering what could have been done differently.

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07-26-2012, 12:43 PM
  #997
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Most Rangers fans are convinced that the trade is a steal so they refuse to consider other alternatives. Hockey is unpredictable, we could be looking back at this five years from now without a cup victory and wondering what could have been done differently.
Now that's a theory that I could very easily apply to my life because there are many things that I wish I had done differently. Do you get my drift?

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07-26-2012, 12:44 PM
  #998
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Most Rangers fans are convinced that the trade is a steal so they refuse to consider other alternatives. Hockey is unpredictable, we could be looking back at this five years from now without a cup victory and wondering what could have been done differently.
if that's the case it wouldn't be because we added top goal scorer to replace 2/3rd line wing, and an enigmatic 3C.

i don't think we ripped off CBJ, they got a good deal imo, but we won the trade. Nash on the rangers is incredible. you couldn't make this deal look bad if you tried. but you and others will.

have fun.

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07-26-2012, 12:46 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Most Rangers fans are convinced that the trade is a steal so they refuse to consider other alternatives. Hockey is unpredictable, we could be looking back at this five years from now without a cup victory and wondering what could have been done differently.
Sorry, but I really have no idea what point you're trying to maker here. Of course things are unpredictable.

What other alternative are we refusing to consider?

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07-26-2012, 12:48 PM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think you're overreacting about the potential negative effect this trade could have on this team and overestimating both Dubinsky and Anisimov's ceiling Few things:

1) Dubinksy is not only a 30-30 player now, he really never has been in his entire career (save his second season in Portland). He's more Kris Draper than he is John Leclaire. He's a decent second liner and a very good third liner on a good team. And he's been passed over on the depth chart by not only Callahan but by Kreider and Hagelin. He's also entering his 6th season in the league and I'm not sure how much more developing he's going to do. He'll likely improve on his numbers from last season because he will get more ice time and his numbers were that bad this season.

2) Anisimov is a nice two way player but not a guy I see as being a shutdown center.

3) Even if these two do pan out, I fail to see how this deal could come back to haunt the Rangers. Both players seem to have been jumped on the team's depth chart and have the same flaw — poor hockey sense. Dubinsky seems to have no clue who he is as player. Anisimov has talent that his head doesn't match. Not sure his heart does either. It's their lack of hockey IQ that makes them inconsistent. It's also, IMO, the hardest thing to teach and instill.

Regardless, I'm not sure either player was in the Rangers long term plans.
I don't think it's a certainty by any stretch of the imagination. I was simply providing an alternate perspective to the "OMG we screwed Howson so hard!" nonsense I see people raving on about.

There are plenty of things that can go "wrong" with a trade of this magnitude. I just have a hard time envisioning a time where Rick Nash is putting up 59 points as a Ranger and people are raving about him and saying they're pleased with the trade. We both know how reactionary this fan base is. How many times have we seen trades or signings that looked great on paper, only to produce nothing? You don't have to go back very long to see where things went awry. Tyutin for Zherdev, Lisin for Korpikoski. Gomez and Drury.

I guess what I see as "things to consider" are taken too literally. Not referring to you in particular, SBOB, but I guess I overestimated how people would accept the devils advocate. Probably my own fault for posting before I had my coffee.

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