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We are the champions! Prospect poll (prospect #2)

View Poll Results: Who is the Kings #2 ranked prospect
Jordan Nolan 0 0%
Derek Forbort 13 24.07%
Tanner Pearson 15 27.78%
Christopher Gibson 0 0%
Andrei Loktionov 23 42.59%
Jake Muzzin 1 1.85%
Thomas Hickey 0 0%
Nick Shore 0 0%
Andy Andreoff 0 0%
Linden Vey 2 3.70%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-26-2012, 10:47 AM
  #1
kingsfan
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We are the champions! Prospect poll (prospect #2)

Here are the results thus far:

#1: Tyler Toffoli (75.61%) Runner-up: Andrei Loktionov (15.85%)

After reading through the discussion in the last post, I've decided to leave Dwight King and Oscar Mollar out of the prospect voting as they have been deemed graduated (in King's case) and generally not wanted to be considered a prospect (in Mollar's case) from what I read. I will however leave Holloway and Nolan in the mix, as Nolan's status as a King next year seems much more uncertain than King's, which seems to be the general concensus of the boards.

So I added Nolan for this round, despite the requests for Jones.

Remember to reply to this thread with who you want added for the next round.

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07-26-2012, 10:49 AM
  #2
Holden Caulfield
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Add Holloway, even if he never comes back to LA he is by far the best prospect in the Kings organization not on this list, IMO.

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07-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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Ganna go with Pearson, honestly think we got a steal with this kid, hope I'm right and we got a top 6 player with the 30th. Add Jones.

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07-26-2012, 11:24 AM
  #4
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Pearson.

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07-26-2012, 11:47 AM
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It is a coin flip between Pearson and Loktionov it seems. Can't say I am familiar enough with Pearson enough to know either way where he places. I was thinking Toffoli, Loktionov, Pearson, Forbort, Muzzin, and Jones as a top 6 that can be a little interchangeable.

Add Jones.

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07-26-2012, 11:50 AM
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Holloway is 24! How long is he going to be considered a prospect? He's done as a Kings prospect. The bridges have been burned. Moller on the other hand is A year younger and left with Lombardi's permission.

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07-26-2012, 11:54 AM
  #7
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Rich Hammond hasn't got the keenest eye when it comes to hockey evaluations, but he does have an ear to the Kings' interests when it comes to various players and this is what he had to say on Holloway a couple days ago:

Quote:
Mark asked: Rich, What is the bottom line on Bud Holloway? Is he good enough and under what circumstances could he potentially join the team given his contract overseas? I saw his probability of success stat drop to F at hockeysfuture.com. Not sure who does that rating, but it seems like someone’s trying to send a clear message by giving him the only F. Thanks

Answer: This is going to sound unnecessarily harsh, but I really don’t understand the fascination with Bud Holloway. He’s a great guy and had some success at the AHL, but he’s 24 years old and it’s not as though he dominated at the AHL level. Given his style of play, he would most likely have to fit into a top-six role at the NHL level. Is he going to beat out Brown, Kopitar, Williams, Penner, Richards or Carter? Or even King or Stoll or Lewis? Or Tyler Toffoli or Linden Vey? I have no idea how that website evaluates players. The Kings thought Holloway made a mistake going to Europe, because he probably would have had a chance to get called up at some point, but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Holloway to be a regular NHL player at this point.

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07-26-2012, 12:21 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Holloway is 24! How long is he going to be considered a prospect? He's done as a Kings prospect. The bridges have been burned. Moller on the other hand is A year younger and left with Lombardi's permission.
Agreed that he will not suit up for the Kings. But he is still the top prospect who's rights are owned by the Kings not on this list, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Rich Hammond hasn't got the keenest eye when it comes to hockey evaluations, but he does have an ear to the Kings' interests when it comes to various players and this is what he had to say on Holloway a couple days ago:
The fact that he says Holloway has to play as a top 6er suggests to me he has no idea who Bud Holloway is other than he scored alot this year...Holloway was drafted as a two way player, he is still a two way player. Solid defensively, works hard, and obviously has a wicked shot, does that sound like anybody we know? How about Jarret Stoll? Does Stoll have to play in the top 6 to be effective? No.

Again, Holloway is not to make it in LA. But I am putting aside that to rank the best prospects that LA holds the rights to, and IMO the best not on the list is Holloway. He should be on an NHL 3rd line this season, with top 6 potential (if he ever comes back). Sucks that he has burned his bridges with LA, but does not mean he is not a solid prospect, even at 24 years old (which doesn't matter so much, IMO, since he should be in the NHL right now).

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07-26-2012, 12:27 PM
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Loktionov if he's still being considered. Add Jones.

I think part of the obsession with Holloway comes from him leading the Monarchs in scoring two years straight. Of course those Monarchs teams had anemic offenses that won on defense and everyone in the lineup contributing on the scoresheet... Also people getting called up and injured like crazy those couple of years. Other than that I really don't get the love for the kid. He's a solid player that would of maybe been in the running for a bottom 6 spot this past year.

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07-26-2012, 12:29 PM
  #10
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Perhaps, but I would argue that Holloway really isn't a Kings prospect anymore. If we were going by the definition of a prospect, then Voynov and King would have to be considered.

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07-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Perhaps, but I would argue that Holloway really isn't a Kings prospect anymore. If we were going by the definition of a prospect, then Voynov and King would have to be considered.
Ah, but's that's another debate. I would argue Holloway, Moller, Loktionov should be considered prospects, whereas I would consider King, Voynov, Nolan "graduated". The latter 3 have pretty well established themselves as NHLers, IMO, whereas the former 3 are not NHL regulars, despite the fact that Moller has the most gp of the group. King Voynov, Nolan are going to be in the lineup next year to start the year, IMO. If, let's say, Nolan fails to crack the lineup and heads back to Manchester I would move him back to a prospect I guess, but I just don't see that happening.

But kingsfan has made the call on this, so I am just using his criteria here.

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07-26-2012, 12:46 PM
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TT is obviously #1, after that it's not so obvious.

Of the remaining players, I actually think Vey has the best balance of tools necessary to play in the NHL and contribute at a high level. He's got decent size, can obviously score, can forecheck, and is well above average with his 2-way game. In the limited times I saw him, I think he sees the ice better than any other Kings prospect. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him turn into a Pavelski type of player. At worst I think he turns into a guy like Bergenheim.

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07-26-2012, 12:49 PM
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Forbert!!

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07-26-2012, 12:52 PM
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This was a very tough choice but I went with Lokti. He had a disappointing year but I expect him to bounce back. He's just much more proven than the other guys at this time (except Nolan)

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07-26-2012, 12:55 PM
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The Black1963
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Kingsfan,

I don't think Holloway should be considered a prospect, only because if he were, he should have been in the top 10 from the start. Holloway would have been my #1 prospect without a doubt.

As for adding Shore...I know you're partial to Shore but I thought there were more people asking for ND to be added. I could be wrong though.

I'm boycotting this round, but I ain't mad at you.

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07-26-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Ah, but's that's another debate. I would argue Holloway, Moller, Loktionov should be considered prospects, whereas I would consider King, Voynov, Nolan "graduated". The latter 3 have pretty well established themselves as NHLers, IMO, whereas the former 3 are not NHL regulars, despite the fact that Moller has the most gp of the group. King Voynov, Nolan are going to be in the lineup next year to start the year, IMO. If, let's say, Nolan fails to crack the lineup and heads back to Manchester I would move him back to a prospect I guess, but I just don't see that happening.

But kingsfan has made the call on this, so I am just using his criteria here.
I would say that Holloway has graduated all the same, he is now a professional European player and has made his choice to play overseas to try to attract other NHL teams, but he is a pro player nonetheless. The SEL is a good league and both Moller and Holloway continue to be signed through next season. I doubt we will see them in another Kings training camp or associated with the Kings whatsoever. The Kings themselves have taken Moller off their prospects list on their website. They are both gone, I would consider them free agents at this point. Their rights are worth nothing.

On a side note, I think some are pushing it with Forbort at #2. Hell, even HF, prior to this year's draft, had him updated at the end of the season and ranked #5. He has good upside, but I would look to him as more of a Willie Mitchell of the future as a max potential even.

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07-26-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
But I am putting aside that to rank the best prospects that LA holds the rights to, and IMO the best not on the list is Holloway.
This is how everyone should view the list. It doesn't matter if someone is signed or not. If we were using contractually signed players, half the players in the poll wouldn't be eligible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Loktionov if he's still being considered.
He's one of the options in the poll, so feel free to vote for him if you wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post

But kingsfan has made the call on this, so I am just using his criteria here.
I wouldn't call it my criteria with all due respect. I asked for input in the first poll and based on what I read in that input, it seems everyone was of the opinion that King fell in with the likes of Bernier and Voynov (eligible but in reality a bonafide NHler at this point), while Mollar simply shouldn't be considered (partly because of HF's criteria and the fact he's not even a prospect by that criteria)..

If people want to vote for Mollar to be added, I'm fine with that but I doubt there will be much of a push at this point until later on. Holloway meanwhile seemed to get a lot more support from people in general to be included so I left it open for people to vote for him to be added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Kingsfan,

I don't think Holloway should be considered a prospect, only because if he were, he should have been in the top 10 from the start. Holloway would have been my #1 prospect without a doubt.

As for adding Shore...I know you're partial to Shore but I thought there were more people asking for ND to be added. I could be wrong though.

I'm boycotting this round, but I ain't mad at you.
I think Hollway falls into that grey area. I personally consider him as a prospect much more than Mollar, simply because he's never had a chance at the NHL level. This reasoning eventually fades due to age, but at 24, I'm ok with considering him a prospect for one more year.

The reason Holloway wasn't on the first poll is for two reasons: A) I wanted peoples opinions on if he was considered a prospect by much of the board or not (seems like he is still) and B) I knew that for the first poll, it was going to come down to Toffoli, Loktionov. Pearson or Forbort. I could have added anyone after that and it really wouldn't have mattered, one of those four was getting first pick. So I left Holloway off to allow for a bit of a discussion on his merits.

As for Shore vs. ND, I'm actually partial to both players. That said, to me they were both on the edge and I went with Shore because I felt he had a better season last year than ND, who really seemed to struggle as a rookie in Manchester.

There was no one requesting either player, as I alone made the initial picks for the 10 players. I showed no favoritism, as if I did, you can trust me that Andy Andreoff and Linden Vey wouldn't be on the list (not a fan personally of either at this stage but I do hope I am totally wrong).

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07-26-2012, 02:19 PM
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For reference, the breakdown of our pool after the season ended and we were re-ranked to #12 in the league:

Quote:
Los Angeles Kings

TEAM BREAKDOWN:
Strengths: Even after graduations, trades, and a recent lack of emphasis on drafting defense, the Kings' system remains deep on the blue line, with Derek Forbort and Slava Voynov leading the way. They also have four goaltenders in their system, at least one of whom is bound to make the big show.

Weaknesses: While the Kings have a couple of wingers with high potential in Tyler Toffoli and Linden Vey, their overall scoring punch is lacking. At the moment, the system lacks an elite caliber prospect at any position.

Top 5 Prospects: 1. Slava Voynov, D, 2. Tyler Toffoli, RW, 3. Andrei Loktionov, C, 4. Jake Muzzin, D, 5. Derek Forbort, D


Lost to Graduation: Jonathan Bernier, Alex Martinez
Added: Brian O'Neill, Alex Roach, Stefan Legein
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-ra...2011-12/page/2

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07-26-2012, 03:15 PM
  #19
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Only one close to making the roster is Loktionov. I won't even ask why Jordan Nolan is still on this list because I'm sure I missed some rule in the previous thread.

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07-26-2012, 03:16 PM
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Only one close to making the roster is Loktionov. I won't even ask why Jordan Nolan is still on this list because I'm sure I missed some rule in the previous thread.
It was generally decided that he isn't a LOCK to make the team and as such should still be considered a prospect.

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07-26-2012, 03:43 PM
  #21
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not participating til you add DESLAURIER.

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07-26-2012, 04:33 PM
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not participating til you add DESLAURIER.
Based on how he played in Manchester he shouldn't be added at this point.

As for this poll.

Loktionov. Add Mersch

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07-26-2012, 05:14 PM
  #23
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We should have a poll about who should be included in the poll.

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07-26-2012, 06:35 PM
  #24
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I would remove Nolan but that again is me. He is already on the team to stay imo.

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07-26-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Add Holloway, even if he never comes back to LA he is by far the best prospect in the Kings organization not on this list, IMO.
Holloway will be back and I agree that he is one of our top prospects and allot of that is due to his development over the past two seasons. When he is allowed back from his Eu tour I would consider him one of our top 3 prospects though if he had remained in NA he would be a King today.

Oh and Nik Des had a very solid second half to his rookie season in the AHL. Add him.

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