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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

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Old
07-23-2012, 01:05 AM
  #101
Rals
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I can't believe amount of people that don't have Mike Richards on the team, you're all crazy. No Mike, No Gold, simple as that, no one else brings what he brings to the table.


I also agree with Helm as the 13th.

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07-23-2012, 12:43 PM
  #102
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I can't believe amount of people that don't have Mike Richards on the team, you're all crazy. No Mike, No Gold, simple as that, no one else brings what he brings to the table.


I also agree with Helm as the 13th.
I have Richards on my team, but there are better players than Helm as the 13th forward. I do not want a situation like 2006 when Canada brought guys like Draper, Maltby and Doan, and they were terrible in 2006, since they were brought in for defence, but Canada needed goals, and these guys could not deliver no offense. The 13th forward should also be a guy than can score, skate like the wind, and bring more to the table than strictly be a defensive player. My guy is Tyler Seguin.

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07-23-2012, 02:37 PM
  #103
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I have Richards on my team, but there are better players than Helm as the 13th forward. I do not want a situation like 2006 when Canada brought guys like Draper, Maltby and Doan, and they were terrible in 2006, since they were brought in for defence, but Canada needed goals, and these guys could not deliver no offense. The 13th forward should also be a guy than can score, skate like the wind, and bring more to the table than strictly be a defensive player. My guy is Tyler Seguin.
I agree re: Helm. He's a good player, but not good enough for the Canadian Olympic team - full stop. Like Dan Cleary in 2009, Helm will probably get invited to the summer orientation camp in 2013 based on Babcock's knowledge of the way he plays, but that should be it.

The beauty of the Richard-Toews-Nash line in 2010 was that, while they were tasked with shutting down the oppositions' top forward lines, they also presented a pretty lethal scoring threat and were a physical force. So we could play them upwards of 18-20 minutes a night because we weren't losing anything by having them on the ice so much. Toews was our leading scorer. So we need a balanced defensive presence up front, which is why guys like Richards and Bergeron need to be there - they're 70 point NHL forwards and bring a Selke-caliber defensive game.

We kind of blew it with Bergeron as our 13th forward in 2010, he didn't add much obviously but was probably hurt during the tournament and wasn't 100%. Patrick Sharp would be my pick as the 13th forward - he: 1) can play on any one of the four forward lines, in either an offensive or shutdown role; 2) can play any forward position; 3) can kill penalties effectively; 4) can play the PP, and can play point on the PP; 5) has chemistry with Toews, an absolute lock for the team; and 6) represented Canada in the past when given the opportunity. Essentially if anybody gets hurt he can slot in, plus play a regular shift in the meantime.

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07-23-2012, 07:05 PM
  #104
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I agree re: Helm. He's a good player, but not good enough for the Canadian Olympic team - full stop. Like Dan Cleary in 2009, Helm will probably get invited to the summer orientation camp in 2013 based on Babcock's knowledge of the way he plays, but that should be it.

The beauty of the Richard-Toews-Nash line in 2010 was that, while they were tasked with shutting down the oppositions' top forward lines, they also presented a pretty lethal scoring threat and were a physical force. So we could play them upwards of 18-20 minutes a night because we weren't losing anything by having them on the ice so much. Toews was our leading scorer. So we need a balanced defensive presence up front, which is why guys like Richards and Bergeron need to be there - they're 70 point NHL forwards and bring a Selke-caliber defensive game.

We kind of blew it with Bergeron as our 13th forward in 2010, he didn't add much obviously but was probably hurt during the tournament and wasn't 100%. Patrick Sharp would be my pick as the 13th forward - he: 1) can play on any one of the four forward lines, in either an offensive or shutdown role; 2) can play any forward position; 3) can kill penalties effectively; 4) can play the PP, and can play point on the PP; 5) has chemistry with Toews, an absolute lock for the team; and 6) represented Canada in the past when given the opportunity. Essentially if anybody gets hurt he can slot in, plus play a regular shift in the meantime.
I agree completely. The days of bringing specialists are over. I want guys who can do it all and the Toews-Richards-Nash line is the perfect example.

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07-24-2012, 04:26 AM
  #105
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I agree re: Helm. He's a good player, but not good enough for the Canadian Olympic team - full stop. Like Dan Cleary in 2009, Helm will probably get invited to the summer orientation camp in 2013 based on Babcock's knowledge of the way he plays, but that should be it.

The beauty of the Richard-Toews-Nash line in 2010 was that, while they were tasked with shutting down the oppositions' top forward lines, they also presented a pretty lethal scoring threat and were a physical force. So we could play them upwards of 18-20 minutes a night because we weren't losing anything by having them on the ice so much. Toews was our leading scorer. So we need a balanced defensive presence up front, which is why guys like Richards and Bergeron need to be there - they're 70 point NHL forwards and bring a Selke-caliber defensive game.

We kind of blew it with Bergeron as our 13th forward in 2010, he didn't add much obviously but was probably hurt during the tournament and wasn't 100%. Patrick Sharp would be my pick as the 13th forward - he: 1) can play on any one of the four forward lines, in either an offensive or shutdown role; 2) can play any forward position; 3) can kill penalties effectively; 4) can play the PP, and can play point on the PP; 5) has chemistry with Toews, an absolute lock for the team; and 6) represented Canada in the past when given the opportunity. Essentially if anybody gets hurt he can slot in, plus play a regular shift in the meantime.

You won't get an argument from me if Sharp is in... I was never advocating Helm over anybody, in fact Helm doesn't make my team, I was just relaying certain whispers out there. I do see some justification for Helm to be in the discussion, but that's all for now.

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07-25-2012, 01:05 AM
  #106
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re: Hall..just to be clear, I don't have some personal beef with the guy (i.e. i'm not obsessed with him not making the team or anything like that)...but i do think that penciling in someone who has missed a large part of his first to yrs in the NHL b/c of injuries to the expense of others is a bit problem.

re: doan, st. louis...i don't understand the references to the benefits of their "leadership"...the 2014 team will be carrying toews, crosby, weber, giroux at a minimum...leadership wise, that should be enough. seriously, if players are relying on the 30 (35?)+ crowd to give them inspiration, that's a problem.

there's no reason for doan to be on the team.

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07-25-2012, 01:07 AM
  #107
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You won't get an argument from me if Sharp is in... I was never advocating Helm over anybody, in fact Helm doesn't make my team, I was just relaying certain whispers out there. I do see some justification for Helm to be in the discussion, but that's all for now.
My favourite team is the Hawks and one of my fave players is Sharp...but i don't think he should make the team...not b/c of him but b/c he'd be taking space from better replacements.

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07-25-2012, 03:57 AM
  #108
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My favourite team is the Hawks and one of my fave players is Sharp...but i don't think he should make the team...not b/c of him but b/c he'd be taking space from better replacements.
Interesting, so who do you have ahead of Sharp?

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07-26-2012, 12:55 PM
  #109
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There is waaaay too much James Neal talk on here. James Neal will be nowhere near Sochi in 2014.

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07-27-2012, 01:36 AM
  #110
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Interesting, so who do you have ahead of Sharp?
pretty much everyone. crosby, toews, giroux, stamkos, tavares, nash, staal, staal, richards, perry, getzlaf, eberle, hall, rnh, skinner, benn, bergeron, seguin, iginla, my cat, my grandma, me (but NOT Neal).

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There is waaaay too much James Neal talk on here. James Neal will be nowhere near Sochi in 2014.
This. People need to stop the insanity. he's not coming.

on another note...back to goalies. who on earth will be #1. at this point i'm just hoping price is ready.

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07-27-2012, 03:40 AM
  #111
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pretty much everyone. crosby, toews, giroux, stamkos, tavares, nash, staal, staal, richards, perry, getzlaf, eberle, hall, rnh, skinner, benn, bergeron, seguin, iginla, my cat, my grandma, me (but NOT Neal).



This. People need to stop the insanity. he's not coming.

on another note...back to goalies. who on earth will be #1. at this point i'm just hoping price is ready.
Holy smokes, that's a real hate on for Sharp. I don't quite get it, but everyone sees things differently. Now goaltenders, there's where we agree... you're hoping on Price...I'm hoping more for Holtby.... he didn't have that tag in junior as the next one like Price did, but just worked his way through the minors and he won me over in the playoffs, I liked the Holtby for Sochi line.... but hey either one at this point, somebody has to step up.

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07-28-2012, 07:09 AM
  #112
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re: Hall..just to be clear, I don't have some personal beef with the guy (i.e. i'm not obsessed with him not making the team or anything like that)...but i do think that penciling in someone who has missed a large part of his first to yrs in the NHL b/c of injuries to the expense of others is a bit problem.

re: doan, st. louis...i don't understand the references to the benefits of their "leadership"...the 2014 team will be carrying toews, crosby, weber, giroux at a minimum...leadership wise, that should be enough. seriously, if players are relying on the 30 (35?)+ crowd to give them inspiration, that's a problem.

there's no reason for doan to be on the team.
Doan has more experience than all of those. He wouldn't be a 1st line player obviously. I'd have him on my 4th line. He'd be the voice in the locker room and he fills the 4th line role perfectly. He's still solid offensively, good defensively and plays very physical. He's a guy that will help you win. He's never had a good team, but in my opinion he'd be a good contributor to Team Canada. It's also not "relying" it's just one piece to the puzzle.

As for St Louis, he has great speed, which is even more helpful on big ice and chemistry is a key thing too and he'll have it with Stamkos. St Louis is one of the top offensive players even at his age still. He's also fine defensively.

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07-28-2012, 09:20 AM
  #113
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It's funny Shane Doan is being mentioned.

Yesterday at my job I am going through this house and I see all these Hockey sticks so when the ladys son comes in I say...."you must be the Hockey player here eh?" he gives a chuckle and takes out this one stick that's autographed by Shane Doan.

Inscribed on it is................."keep you eyes on Jesus"



That worked for me, hey, if Jesus is on our side...........................we won't have to worry all that much about goaltending.

Even in that cesspool that they call Russia.

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07-28-2012, 10:59 AM
  #114
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I think the goaltending job is Price's to lose. He can play in the highest pressure goalie situation in the NHL. I think Fleury is a bit of a joke honestly. Still going off his high draft pick pedigree, he has one good regular season and one decent middle of the pack one.

His save percentage also sees a large drop come playoff time. If hes Canada's guy, theres gonna be problems. I think it will end up Price, Ward, Fleury/Luongo.

As for Helm as the 13th forward, he would add a cool dimension to the team. Hes a smaller guy who can throw huge hits so you wouldnt have to worry about the head shots the IIHF seems to crack down on. Hes arguably the best PKer in the league and hes probably the fastest Canadian out there (arguably in the league). I think he may get an actual look, but only if he hits at least 50 points and keeps a high face off percentage

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07-28-2012, 12:47 PM
  #115
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just think about it, Babcock is his coach, so there's that relationship there. He's great on the PK, 13th forward, slot him in there next to Bergeron on the PK unit. He'll gladly accept the role without any ego. He does have experience with Hockey Canada, won a gold medal in 07 in Sweden I believe. I've heard it whispered that Helm is a real possibility.
In Russia, only if you thought about WJC '07. That event were held in Sweden.

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07-28-2012, 04:50 PM
  #116
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In Russia, only if you thought about WJC '07. That event were held in Sweden.
I was talking about Helm and the WJC in Sweden. I believe that is what I wrote.

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07-28-2012, 07:17 PM
  #117
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I can't see Yzerman leaving St. Louis off again, especially after seeing him play on such a high level since taking over as GM. I cringed watching Bergeon play last time thinking we could have brought someone like St. Louis, who is by no means bad defensively either.

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07-28-2012, 07:50 PM
  #118
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I can't see Yzerman leaving St. Louis off again, especially after seeing him play on such a high level since taking over as GM. I cringed watching Bergeon play last time thinking we could have brought someone like St. Louis, who is by no means bad defensively either.
Exactly!

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07-28-2012, 11:14 PM
  #119
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Holy smokes, that's a real hate on for Sharp. I don't quite get it, but everyone sees things differently. Now goaltenders, there's where we agree... you're hoping on Price...I'm hoping more for Holtby.... he didn't have that tag in junior as the next one like Price did, but just worked his way through the minors and he won me over in the playoffs, I liked the Holtby for Sochi line.... but hey either one at this point, somebody has to step up.
i was being facetious about sharp - and don't hate him...i'm a hawks fan. but i just don't think he's got much of a chance making the team...just because there are so many other players in line before him. he didn't make it in Van - and since then i think that, if anything, more players have moved in line in front of him.

re: Holtby - i have no particular problem with the guy. I think Price is probably better now and will be better a year and a half from now...but, like you said, somebody has to step up.

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Doan has more experience than all of those. He wouldn't be a 1st line player obviously. I'd have him on my 4th line. He'd be the voice in the locker room and he fills the 4th line role perfectly. He's still solid offensively, good defensively and plays very physical. He's a guy that will help you win. He's never had a good team, but in my opinion he'd be a good contributor to Team Canada. It's also not "relying" it's just one piece to the puzzle.

As for St Louis, he has great speed, which is even more helpful on big ice and chemistry is a key thing too and he'll have it with Stamkos. St Louis is one of the top offensive players even at his age still. He's also fine defensively.
Maybe i'm wrong...but if Doan and St. Louis didn't make it to Van, i don't see them making it to Sochi. If anything, this team will be harder to make...and I suspect the "holes" left by players from Van who don't come back will be filled by younger players.

As far as the "experience factor"...keep in mind, it's likely that there will be a number of players from Van returning (including those who are captains on their NHL teams...Crosby, Toews, Weber, *maybe* Getzlaf)...and assuming Giroux goes, he'll probably be his team's captain by that point. I'm just saying I don't think purposely adding a "veteran voice" for the the locker room is as important as you're making it out to be.

The other thing about Doan is his on-ice style isn't as valuable in an international competition (with the ice size, rules, and style of play) as it is in the NHL...and the 1st/2nd/3rd/4th line distinction isn't nearly as important at the Olympics...if anything, you end up pretty much with 4 scoring lines.

ETA - I was reading your post again and you raise good points about St. Louis - you're right, he may very well make it. but re: doan...i still think he has no chance...and, frankly, there are enough players i'd put before him i don't particularly want to see him make it.


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07-28-2012, 11:24 PM
  #120
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I can't see Yzerman leaving St. Louis off again, especially after seeing him play on such a high level since taking over as GM. I cringed watching Bergeon play last time thinking we could have brought someone like St. Louis, who is by no means bad defensively either.
Yeah, okay...I think i'm pretty convinced to start backing off my insistence that St. Louis shouldn't make it. I think you guys supporting him are probably right and I'm probably wrong.

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07-29-2012, 04:43 AM
  #121
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Yeah, okay...I think i'm pretty convinced to start backing off my insistence that St. Louis shouldn't make it. I think you guys supporting him are probably right and I'm probably wrong.
The intensity of the arguments will only pick up as we inch closer to December 2013. Lets hope there isn't too much time lost due to a lockout... the more time players have to settle the issue the better. As far as teams go, I think we are way ahead of other teams, with the only questions being, who's the # 1 goalie and who plays LW on the 4th. line and who's the 13th forward? Other than the # 1 goalie spot, the other two spots are pretty much whatever...If it's Sharp or say Seguin vying for a spot as the 13th forward, I mean really, both have a particular high skill set, I wouldn't argue whatever decision they make.... It's not like 06 when it was Doan, Draper and Bertuzzi taken over players like Crosby, Spezza and a young Eric Staal. If Hockey Canada hasn't learned anything from that nonsense in Torino, then there's not much hope for our national governing body.


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07-29-2012, 04:48 AM
  #122
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and before everybody gets the knickers all in a bunch, I'm not advocating Spezza for the Olympic team... he was named along with Staal to the reserve squad in 06. I was just using their names as examples.


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07-29-2012, 01:03 PM
  #123
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and before everybody gets the knickers all in a bunch, I'm not advocating Spezza for the Olympic team...
Thank God! I guess I can unknot my knickers.

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07-29-2012, 01:37 PM
  #124
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Thank God! I guess I can unknot my knickers.
Always got to write disclaimers these days, as readers want to add, imply or assume that you meant something entirely different if your post is at all vague. It's a shame really. I'm all for un-knotted knickers at all times. cheers

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07-29-2012, 01:41 PM
  #125
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Always got to write disclaimers these days, as readers want to add, imply or assume that you meant something entirely different if your post is at all vague. It's a shame really. I'm all for un-knotted knickers at all times. cheers
Spezza brings out the worst in everyone... including himself.


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