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Rick Nash+S.Delisle+cond. 3rd to NYR for Dubinsky+Anisimov+Erixon+2013 1st (Part III)

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07-26-2012, 12:48 PM
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Rick Nash+S.Delisle+cond. 3rd to NYR for Dubinsky+Anisimov+Erixon+2013 1st (Part III)

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Part II can be found here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9#post52988319

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07-26-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Nash on the rangers is incredible.
That's pure speculation. All of us are hoping it pans out that way, but there's always the chance he is a bust here like so many other great players. I remember people posting that the Rangers were going to be a dynasty when Drury and Gomez signed together and looked how that ended up.

All I'm saying is that even though I like the trade, Nash still has to hold up his end of the bargain.

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07-26-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
That's pure speculation. All of us are hoping it pans out that way, but there's always the chance he is a bust here like so many other great players. I remember people posting that the Rangers were going to be a dynasty when Drury and Gomez signed together and looked how that ended up.

All I'm saying is that even though I like the trade, Nash still has to hold up his end of the bargain.
This is far from a Gomez/Drury situation.

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07-26-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This is far from a Gomez/Drury situation.
I'm not comparing the two situations, but the fan excitement around them is similar.

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07-26-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This is far from a Gomez/Drury situation.
If people keep saying this we'll jinx our situation. I love having Nash on this team, let's see how he performs first.

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07-26-2012, 01:02 PM
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If people keep saying this we'll jinx our situation. I love having Nash on this team, let's see how he performs first.
Stating a fact is going to jinx something?

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07-26-2012, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Stating a fact is going to jinx something?
It's not a fact yet?

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07-26-2012, 01:04 PM
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It's not a fact yet?
This franchise is in a different place and different situation than when Slats signed Gomez and Drury. That is a fact.

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07-26-2012, 01:06 PM
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I think Nash is too young and too skilled to be a complete bust, and the team around him is too good to live and die on whether he's suddenly going to turn into an 80 point player

I think we just have to be reasonable in what is expected of Nash. 65-70 points is pretty reasonable and wouldn't be a bust IMO. He's going to provide a scoring threat but hitting 40 goals or more likely won't happen (again, consider only 4 players scored 40 or more goals last year)

The Rangers signed Gaborik when he wasn't much younger than Nash. He just put up 40 goals at the age of 29/30

Now I think Gaborik is a better sniper than Nash but my point is kind of that I don't think every offensive player fails here just because this is the Rangers, and that age 28 isn't some magical age where everyone's production completely falls off a cliff

Nash may never put up career numbers in NY but I still don't see any reason to think his numbers will go down, or really do anything but return to about his average

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07-26-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
That's pure speculation. All of us are hoping it pans out that way, but there's always the chance he is a bust here like so many other great players. I remember people posting that the Rangers were going to be a dynasty when Drury and Gomez signed together and looked how that ended up.

All I'm saying is that even though I like the trade, Nash still has to hold up his end of the bargain.
this is truly a straw man arguement. There's a chance anything can go wrong. The likelihood of Nash being a bust in here is very low imo. He is young proven talent.

People often use the Drury/Gomez trade as the benchmark for shooting down trades. That's BS as well. Both had good first years here. Gomez had a propriety skill set and we never found a winger that fit his style. DRury's health declined. Both were overpaid, yes, but they were both highly sought after FAs not just by the NYR.

This still doesn't deter any NHL team from pursuing high priced free agents. Look at the impact of adding FA talent like Brad Richards! Has Gaborik been a bust? Sometimes trades dont work out. Move on. So run along with your superstitions.

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07-26-2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I think Nash is too young and too skilled to be a complete bust, and the team around him is too good to live and die on whether he's suddenly going to turn into an 80 point player

I think we just have to be reasonable in what is expected of Nash. 65-70 points is pretty reasonable and wouldn't be a bust IMO. He's going to provide a scoring threat but hitting 40 goals or more likely won't happen (again, consider only 4 players scored 40 or more goals last year)

The Rangers signed Gaborik when he wasn't much younger than Nash. He just put up 40 goals at the age of 29/30

Now I think Gaborik is a better sniper than Nash but my point is kind of that I don't think every offensive player fails here just because this is the Rangers, and that age 28 isn't some magical age where everyone's production completely falls off a cliff

Nash may never put up career numbers in NY but I still don't see any reason to think his numbers will go down, or really do anything but return to about his average
I'll add that Nash is two years younger than Messier was when the Ranger acquired him.

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07-26-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I think Nash is too young and too skilled to be a complete bust, and the team around him is too good to live and die on whether he's suddenly going to turn into an 80 point player

I think we just have to be reasonable in what is expected of Nash. 65-70 points is pretty reasonable and wouldn't be a bust IMO. He's going to provide a scoring threat but hitting 40 goals or more likely won't happen (again, consider only 4 players scored 40 or more goals last year)

The Rangers signed Gaborik when he wasn't much younger than Nash. He just put up 40 goals at the age of 29/30

Now I think Gaborik is a better sniper than Nash but my point is kind of that I don't think every offensive player fails here just because this is the Rangers, and that age 28 isn't some magical age where everyone's production completely falls off a cliff

Nash may never put up career numbers in NY but I still don't see any reason to think his numbers will go down, or really do anything but return to about his average
This is a very reasonable analysis. Nash has strengths that Gaborik does not, most importantly, he is extremely healthy. he is stronger, and can hold the puck longer, better stick handler.

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07-26-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This franchise is in a different place and different situation than when Slats signed Gomez and Drury. That is a fact.
Ok so the franchise is in a different situation. Not Nash. Drury and Gomez were signed cause at the time it was believed that the only things missing from a Rangers SC run were a first line center and a gritty captain who would do all the little things for his team to win. In the offseason we all thought we were a complete team. Either way, Nash has to perform on the ice. Gomez and Drury did not perform on the ice.

Same situation for Nash as Drury and Gomez, even if the team is not in the same situation.

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07-26-2012, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Ok so the franchise is in a different situation. Not Nash. Drury and Gomez were signed cause at the time it was believed that the only things missing from a Rangers SC run were a first line center and a gritty captain who would do all the little things for his team to win. In the offseason we all thought we were a complete team. Either way, Nash has to perform on the ice. Gomez and Drury did not perform on the ice.

Same situation for Nash as Drury and Gomez, even if the team is not in the same situation.
Selective memory. I don't recall anyone saying that they were a #1 center and gritty captain away from the Cup. That's one of the main differences between now and then (here comes another fact). This team has an intact core that Nash being added to. Gomez and Drury were brought in to be the center of a core.

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07-26-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
this is truly a straw man arguement. There's a chance anything can go wrong. The likelihood of Nash being a bust in here is very low imo. He is young proven talent.

People often use the Drury/Gomez trade as the benchmark for shooting down trades. That's BS as well. Both had good first years here. Gomez had a propriety skill set and we never found a winger that fit his style. DRury's health declined. Both were overpaid, yes, but they were both highly sought after FAs not just by the NYR.

This still doesn't deter any NHL team from pursuing high priced free agents. Look at the impact of adding FA talent like Brad Richards! Has Gaborik been a bust? Sometimes trades dont work out. Move on. So run along with your superstitions.
How am I being superstitious? When did I say that Nash will be a bust because Gomez and Drury didn't work out?

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07-26-2012, 01:22 PM
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In terms of the 3rd and 4th line, it would be perfect if Miller was ready to make the jump.

Hagelin/Kreider-Boyle-Miller
Pyatt-Halpern-Asham

Interchangeable positional players, size, speed, grit, scoring potential. IMO Rupp is completely useless due to his mobility.

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07-26-2012, 01:35 PM
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Nash could easily be a bust, but we shouldn't be comparing the situation to Drury and Gomez. It IS a very different situation and Nash himself is very different as well.

Nash can bust because he put up 59 POINTS this year. That won't cut it.

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07-26-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
How am I being superstitious? When did I say that Nash will be a bust because Gomez and Drury didn't work out?
you wrote:

"but there's always the chance he is a bust here like so many other great players. I remember people posting that the Rangers were going to be a dynasty when Drury and Gomez signed together and looked how that ended up."

I'm not trying to misinterpret you, but if you can't understand what you meant by that, how can I?

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07-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Selective memory. I don't recall anyone saying that they were a #1 center and gritty captain away from the Cup. That's one of the main differences between now and then (here comes another fact). This team has an intact core that Nash being added to. Gomez and Drury were brought in to be the center of a core.
Not a selective memory. We were a soft team which lacked a true captain that refused to quit and a true center that could feed Jagr at will. People over looked our porous defense but the wide belief was finally we found a guy who wouldn't let our stars give up when the times got hard and that we finally raised the bar offensively with a first line center. I remember the VS. commentators speculating that we would win it all at the beginning of the season.

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07-26-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
you wrote:

"but there's always the chance he is a bust here like so many other great players. I remember people posting that the Rangers were going to be a dynasty when Drury and Gomez signed together and looked how that ended up."

I'm not trying to misinterpret you, but if you can't understand what you meant by that, how can I?
I can understand exactly what I meant by that ...

You said initially that "Nash will be amazing here", and I refuted you by saying that was speculation because people also thought Drury and Gomez would be amazing here, but that didn't work out. Not once did I say Nash was going to be a bust because Gomez and Drury were a bust. All I said was that you seem awfully confident Nash will work out -- and believe me, I hope you are right. But not anywhere in my original post do I see a superstitious remark.

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07-26-2012, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Not a selective memory. We were a soft team which lacked a true captain that refused to quit and a true center that could feed Jagr at will.
Jagr was the captain when Gomez and Drury signed. So, no, there was not a belief that the team needed a captain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
People over looked our porous defense but the wide belief was finally we found a guy who wouldn't let our stars give up when the times got hard and that we finally raised the bar offensively with a first line center.
Not sure what you're trying to say here. But the mere fact you mentioned, correctly, the porous defense proves my assertion that now is a different situation from when Gomez and Drury were signed.

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I remember the VS. commentators speculating that we would win it all at the beginning of the season.
Just shows how little the experts' opinions are worth.

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07-26-2012, 02:01 PM
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Nash is 4 years younger than when Jagr was acquired in 2004. Jagr had a MVP season as a 33/34 year old.

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07-26-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Jagr was the captain when Gomez and Drury signed. So, no, there was not a belief that the team needed a captain.



Not sure what you're trying to say here. But the mere fact you mentioned, correctly, the porous defense proves my assertion that now is a different situation from when Gomez and Drury were signed.



Just shows how little the experts' opinions are worth.
Yea, but i'm talking about a player who would have definitely had an authoritative opinion and voice in the locker room.

And our defense could regress? Sauer is a question mark. Del Zotto had 1 good year, what if he doesn't put the same amount of effort into preparing this offseason as he did last year? Staal could get another concussion and we might have a bunch of fill ins playing at any point. Clearly I don't hope that this is the case, even if it were to prove my point, but I'm just saying it's not as far off as youre making it seem.

And yes, I'm hoping we remain under the radar with them this upcoming season so that we don't have all these ridiculous expectations.

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07-26-2012, 02:12 PM
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Sorry, but I really have no idea what point you're trying to maker here. Of course things are unpredictable.

What other alternative are we refusing to consider?
I was referring to Trxjw's alternative scenario in which the trade does not work out in favor. Some posters were giving him a hard time over it in the other thread.

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07-26-2012, 02:15 PM
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I was referring to Trxjw's alternative scenario in which the trade does not work out in favor. Some posters were giving him a hard time over it in the other thread.
There's always a possibilty that a trade would have been better off not made. I think the odds are stacked in out favor here.

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