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The case for a 1-year surgical tank for the Habs

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Old
07-26-2012, 01:21 PM
  #51
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Totally Absurd Thread

You can make all the arguements you want for "strategically tanking", but all that tells me is that you don't have a clue on what an competitive human being wants..and that's to WIN!

You don't think that EVERY other NHL team wants a shot at the top 3 picks next year? How can you even be sure you could finish in the postion you want?

Do you REALLY think Bergivin would want to strategically tank. How the heck so you do that, trade your core for more pics, stop developing your young talent, sit out your top talent?

A MILLION different scenarios could happen in an NHL season.... who had the Kings winning the cup?

You play to WIN... you want a top 3 pick, you make smart trades to get that asset.

FYI.... it was an 8th place team that won the CUP.... making smart hockey decisons to WIN.... NOW!
Yes, the thought of tanking is for armchair GMs who haven't much of a competive streak in them.

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07-26-2012, 01:22 PM
  #52
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We were also a much better 5 on 5 team than anyone gave credit for, the worst aspect of the Habs by far was the powerplay which should be helped tremendously with the return of Markov and a new coaching staff.

New coach is important - of course I don't expect Therrien to be a Jack Adams candidate but the players are going to respond better to him than to Jacques ''I'm obviously gonna get fired'' Martin and Randy "I'm only there for a few months and have no idea what I am doing" Cunneyworth.

The players are also going to want to prove their worth to the new coach and to the new GM. They are competitive guys, Subban, Pacioretty, Price... They don't want to lose again, they all want to make the playoffs so bad.

We might have lost Cammalleri, Kostitsyn and Gill and while the new acquisitions are inferior offensively we also benefit greatly from the return of Markov and Gionta who both barely played last year.

I know everyone expects Markov to injure himself 3 games into the season but its unlikely. People that aren't 12 or that have a decent memory are going to remember how awesome he is, and that he single handedly makes us a much, much better team. In the meantime Gionta we should expect to score 20-25 goals.

Guys like Bourque or Kaberle can rebound and actually be useful players. Bourque can be better than Kostitsyn. Kaberle can be a top4 defensemen. If only one of these two players rebound we are in a solid position.

We have much better depth. Our young guns (Leblanc, Palushaj, Geoffrion, St-Denis) are more experienced and the number of decent call-up options has increased considerably with all the junior players reaching the AHL. The addition of Prust and Armstrong means we have real bottom 6 players with grit and energy.

Unless Bergevin blows the team up this team won't finish in the bottom5. If there are major injuries again and the team sucks so much after, say, 40 games that the playoffs are out of question then sure, Bergy should trade some assets at the deadline. You tankers should not count on that however, this team will be middle of the pack.

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07-26-2012, 01:26 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
You can make all the arguements you want for "strategically tanking", but all that tells me is that you don't have a clue on what an competitive human being wants..and that's to WIN!

You don't think that EVERY other NHL team wants a shot at the top 3 picks next year? How can you even be sure you could finish in the postion you want?

Do you REALLY think Bergivin would want to strategically tank. How the heck so you do that, trade your core for more pics, stop developing your young talent, sit out your top talent?

A MILLION different scenarios could happen in an NHL season.... who had the Kings winning the cup?

You play to WIN... you want a top 3 pick, you make smart trades to get that asset.

FYI.... it was an 8th place team that won the CUP.... making smart hockey decisons to WIN.... NOW!
Yes, the thought of tanking is for armchair GMs who haven't much of a competive streak in them.
100% wrong.

There's nothing competitive or warrior-like about wanting to finish in 8th place. 8th place is for people who have short attention spans and value instant gratification.

You know what you are if you're checking the standings in March and you're counting how many overtime losses the team needs to finish in 8th? You're mediocre.

A real warrior and champion asks what it takes to win the brass ring, to go for it all. I've laid out a Stanley Cup strategy precisely because I'm competitive.

The anti-tankers don't have a Stanley Cup strategy. They talk about Shane Doan, who is the roadmap to finishing in 10th.

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Old
07-26-2012, 01:27 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
No one has every provided an explanation of how to implement tanking as a strategy or game tactic. The way I understand it is that you field a team, you coach them as best you can, and the results are pretty much out of your hands. I guess you can trade players or not sign free agents, but there's still a salary cap floor.

If you want to tank, explain precisely what this entails from the general manager on down.
For us to tank we'd have to trade a bunch of our best veteran players for prospects, draft picks and salary dumps and then fill out our roster with cast-offs and career AHL'ers.

That's it. Repeat if necessary.

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07-26-2012, 01:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If you field the current roster and you tell the coach to do the best he can, and you tell the players to do the best they can, they'll finish between 12th and 15th.

Where's the tanking part? It's a deliberate action. All your doing is predicting what's going to happen next year with our current roster.

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07-26-2012, 01:32 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
Where's the tanking part? It's a deliberate action. All your doing is predicting what's going to happen next year with our current roster.
Bergevin has already implemented my strategy by failing to after Parise, Suter, and Semin.

He can easily knock us out of the lottery by signing Semin to a 2-year, 14 million dollar deal. He is choosing not to. He explicitly said that he's not going after Semin.

He's not even going after Sykora or Kostitsyn. He's not serious about winning now. He's going into the season with this mediocre team. Bergevin is thinking long-term in my opinion.

ETA: In my OP I said advantageous minutes should be given to Gomez, Bourque and Kaberle.

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07-26-2012, 01:33 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
For us to tank we'd have to trade a bunch of our best veteran players for prospects, draft picks and salary dumps and then fill out our roster with cast-offs and career AHL'ers.

That's it. Repeat if necessary.

That looks like several years of tanking.

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07-26-2012, 01:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
100% wrong.

There's nothing competitive or warrior-like about wanting to finish in 8th place. 8th place is for people who have short attention spans and value instant gratification.

You know what you are if you're checking the standings in March and you're counting how many overtime losses the team needs to finish in 8th? You're mediocre.

A real warrior and champion asks what it takes to win the brass ring, to go for it all. I've laid out a Stanley Cup strategy precisely because I'm competitive.

The anti-tankers don't have a Stanley Cup strategy. They talk about Shane Doan, who is the roadmap to finishing in 10th.
Why would they want to finish 8th? We have seen teams with less talent than this one finish top 3(see Panthers, Florida last year). The division is weak, before we start dumping players left and right, let's at least see what the additions and a more healthy squad can do.

Not sure how Doan would help anybody finish 10th, he was a big cog in a team lacking on skill but high on grit and discipline in Phoenix that had a sweet year last year.

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07-26-2012, 01:36 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
100% wrong.

There's nothing competitive or warrior-like about wanting to finish in 8th place. 8th place is for people who have short attention spans and value instant gratification.

You know what you are if you're checking the standings in March and you're counting how many overtime losses the team needs to finish in 8th? You're mediocre.

A real warrior and champion asks what it takes to win the brass ring, to go for it all. I've laid out a Stanley Cup strategy precisely because I'm competitive.

The anti-tankers don't have a Stanley Cup strategy. They talk about Shane Doan, who is the roadmap to finishing in 10th.
You haven't. You're just being extremely pessimistic.

With parity a ''8th place team'' can also finish 6th, or 5th with only a few more points. As CP says we are also in a weak division, so who knows what can happen. If we want to tank we need to trade Plekanec and other key players which means we will tank next year as well, and the next. The team will become a joke like the Oilers. Some of our vets might ask for a trade or try to leave, nobody is going to sign with us and we're going to waste Carey Price, Pacioretty and Subban's primes.

The one year surgical tank happened last season. It was an anomaly, the team's much better than it showed in the standings.

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07-26-2012, 01:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Bergevin has already implemented my strategy by failing to after Parise, Suter, and Semin.

He can easily knock us out of the lottery by signing Semin to a 2-year, 14 million dollar deal. He is choosing not to. He explicitly said that he's not going after Semin.

He's not even going after Sykora or Kostitsyn. He's not serious about winning now. He's going into the season with this mediocre team. Bergevin is thinking long-term in my opinion.

ETA: In my OP I said advantageous minutes should be given to Gomez, Bourque and Kaberle.

I agree he is thinking long term, disagree he's deliberately tanking the team. I guess if he trades pleks, gionta and cole for prospects and picks I would agree.

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07-26-2012, 01:41 PM
  #61
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yeah may as well lose, winning sucks anyways.

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07-26-2012, 01:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why would they want to finish 8th? We have seen teams with less talent than this one finish top 3(see Panthers, Florida last year). The division is weak, before we start dumping players left and right, let's at least see what the additions and a more healthy squad can do.

Not sure how Doan would help anybody finish 10th, he was a big cog in a team lacking on skill but high on grit and discipline in Phoenix that had a sweet year last year.
We have a good shot at finishing 3rd if Chara suffers a concussion and if Tuuka Rask wets the bed, and if Buffalo and Ottawa both suffer major injuries too. And if the Habs suffer no injuries. However, the Florida model is pretty useless otherwise. They're a bad team and they were wiped out in the 1st round.

I don't just want to make the playoffs. I want to make noise in the playoffs. I want a legitimate contender.

People who just want to make the playoffs have low standards and low projected self esteem. They believe they can never really win, so they're satisfied with mediocrity. Conversely, people with a desire for victory don't care about making the playoffs if it means ending up like Florida.

I'm going to say it with pride: a first round playoff exit like in 2008-09 has no value to me, and might have negative value.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
You haven't. You're just being extremely pessimistic.

With parity a ''8th place team'' can also finish 6th, or 5th with only a few more points. As CP says we are also in a weak division, so who knows what can happen. If we want to tank we need to trade Plekanec and other key players which means we will tank next year as well, and the next. The team will become a joke like the Oilers. Some of our vets might ask for a trade or try to leave, nobody is going to sign with us and we're going to waste Carey Price, Pacioretty and Subban's primes.

The one year surgical tank happened last season. It was an anomaly, the team's much better than it showed in the standings.
Those of you who think this team will improve from 15th to 5th next year are in for a disappointment.

I'm going to bump this thread at next year's draft when we select top-5.

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Old
07-26-2012, 01:50 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Those of you who think this team will improve from 15th to 5th next year are in for a disappointment.

I'm going to bump this thread at next year's draft when we select top-5.
Oh I don't think we'll finish 5th next season. I do believe however that we won't finish 5th anytime soon if we trade our veterans in order to tank.

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07-26-2012, 01:53 PM
  #64
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Nobody wants to see this team lose first as an option. But the reality of the situation is that the Habs are not in a position to win a cup next year. They are a one line team, with little scoring depth... The defense is weak. Subban and Gorges are decent than there's a big drop off. Emelin could be better this year... But still needs work. Diaz, Weber and Kaberle are not that good. Who knows with Markov? I guarantee he won't be the savior some of you are expecting. Bouillon is depth...

At least our bottom six had some size and muscle now. I don't see any major improvements to the Habs roster other than adding Prust.

I prefer the wait and see approach, but I suspect we will be sellers at the deadline if there is a season. I Just don't think they are good enough or deep enough to contend this year.

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07-26-2012, 01:54 PM
  #65
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1- Tanking as a "strategy" should never be an option to start the season for any organization that prides itself on excellence and building a winning culture.

2- as we saw this past year, circumstances can create a lottery-pick season without any concerted attempt to specifically build a weak roster

3- with the talent we have in our lineup today, and the contract situation of most of our veteran players, "tanking" would be virtually impossible unless we started trading away several veterans... that then leaves our quality young players stuck in a very negative season, playing for a team "trying" to lose. That doesn't build the kind of organizational character/values that encourages the kind of self-sacrifice and commitment to winning that perennial contenders like Detroit rely on.

4- we currently have an excellent group of prospects, and 4 top 60 picks in this next "best ever" draft. Without "tanking" we are still in an excellent situation to build a long term contender around the young talent we have in place (Price, Subban, MaxPac, Eller, DD, Galchenyul, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Leblanc, Gallagher...). Adding 1 (or if we're really lucky, 2) elite talents via trade or UFA is about the only real "difficult" roster addition this organization needs. That, combined with time and patient-methodical roster building, is what will take us to into the "annual-contender" territory as early as 2013-2014 (depending on how quickly those young talents progress).



Bottom line, imo it's patently ridiculous to argue in favor of any kind of specific attempt to end up with a lottery pick.

conversely, if the season were lost and we end up with another top-5 pick as we did last lockout... Fantastic! No doubt that adding some elite young talent is ALWAYS a good thing.

But the approach MB seems to be on now is exactly what we need. Improving the roster piece-by-piece, focusing first on getting the right kind of character players in place. If he can add Doan (at a resaonable term), great, if not, patiently waiting and moving forward with the group we have now is just fine.

there's enough room for a few young guys to get some quality opportunities, but also enough veteran talent in place so that we should be competitive all year long.

Our group is not far removed from last year's, a 6-10 team that could surprise either way, top-4 or bottom-4, depending on the extent of luck/bad luck.

If we end up just in the playoffs, it may mean a lower set of picks, but if that draft is as good as people say it is, Timmins should do just fine with the 4xtop60 picks he has.


Tanking? aside from the budget-enforced limitations that some teams have, no GM actively builds a crappy roster. Some GM's just aren't good at what they do, so their weak rosters fall off quicker and then making roster moves in-season for the "future" is the only sensible thing to do.

If we hit January/February and we're out of the playoff race (highly unlikely), then sure let's see what the market is for some of our vets (though with none of the better ones on expiring deals, if we suck, they aren't likely playing well, so the return we'd get will be minimized due to the extra year(s) left on their deals.

If we're close, then you stand pat and only make an "upgrade" move if it is either at low-cost (ie for a depth addition), or if it's for a guy that either has multiple years left or is a UFA that we want to extend (ie adding someone beyond just the playoff push).

If we're are tearing it up, then maybe risk a quality asset or two to strongly bolster the group for a long-playoff run.


but tank? as the OP laid it out? No chance in hell.

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Old
07-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
1- Tanking as a "strategy" should never be an option to start the season for any organization that prides itself on excellence and building a winning culture.

2- as we saw this past year, circumstances can create a lottery-pick season without any concerted attempt to specifically build a weak roster

3- with the talent we have in our lineup today, and the contract situation of most of our veteran players, "tanking" would be virtually impossible unless we started trading away several veterans... that then leaves our quality young players stuck in a very negative season, playing for a team "trying" to lose. That doesn't build the kind of organizational character/values that encourages the kind of self-sacrifice and commitment to winning that perennial contenders like Detroit rely on.

4- we currently have an excellent group of prospects, and 4 top 60 picks in this next "best ever" draft. Without "tanking" we are still in an excellent situation to build a long term contender around the young talent we have in place (Price, Subban, MaxPac, Eller, DD, Galchenyul, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg, Leblanc, Gallagher...). Adding 1 (or if we're really lucky, 2) elite talents via trade or UFA is about the only real "difficult" roster addition this organization needs. That, combined with time and patient-methodical roster building, is what will take us to into the "annual-contender" territory as early as 2013-2014 (depending on how quickly those young talents progress).



Bottom line, imo it's patently ridiculous to argue in favor of any kind of specific attempt to end up with a lottery pick.

conversely, if the season were lost and we end up with another top-5 pick as we did last lockout... Fantastic! No doubt that adding some elite young talent is ALWAYS a good thing.

But the approach MB seems to be on now is exactly what we need. Improving the roster piece-by-piece, focusing first on getting the right kind of character players in place. If he can add Doan (at a resaonable term), great, if not, patiently waiting and moving forward with the group we have now is just fine.

there's enough room for a few young guys to get some quality opportunities, but also enough veteran talent in place so that we should be competitive all year long.

Our group is not far removed from last year's, a 6-10 team that could surprise either way, top-4 or bottom-4, depending on the extent of luck/bad luck.

If we end up just in the playoffs, it may mean a lower set of picks, but if that draft is as good as people say it is, Timmins should do just fine with the 4xtop60 picks he has.


Tanking? aside from the budget-enforced limitations that some teams have, no GM actively builds a crappy roster. Some GM's just aren't good at what they do, so their weak rosters fall off quicker and then making roster moves in-season for the "future" is the only sensible thing to do.

If we hit January/February and we're out of the playoff race (highly unlikely), then sure let's see what the market is for some of our vets (though with none of the better ones on expiring deals, if we suck, they aren't likely playing well, so the return we'd get will be minimized due to the extra year(s) left on their deals.

If we're close, then you stand pat and only make an "upgrade" move if it is either at low-cost (ie for a depth addition), or if it's for a guy that either has multiple years left or is a UFA that we want to extend (ie adding someone beyond just the playoff push).

If we're are tearing it up, then maybe risk a quality asset or two to strongly bolster the group for a long-playoff run.


but tank? as the OP laid it out? No chance in hell.
The main difference between our two lines of thinking is that I'm willing to project the performance level of the current Habs roster.

12th to 15th place.

If we're not signing Semin or doing a big trade, then we're on a collision course with a lottery pick.

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07-26-2012, 02:03 PM
  #67
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[QUOTE=Beendair Donedat;52991097]Nobody wants to see this team lose first as an option. But the reality of the situation is that the Habs are not in a position to win a cup next year. They are a one line team, with little scoring depth... /QUOTE]

Sure. I'm in not position to reach the second floor in a single step. Why not wait for an elevator to be built instead?

Not teams go from last place to stanley cup. Its okay if we finish 8th next year or even 10th as long as we can get stronger every year. If Bergevin is a good GM he's going to be able to do it.

To win you need quality players that you can surround well. We already have quality players, what we need is depth. To tank you need to trade depth in order to acquire future quality players.

Tanking is not the solution! We should only trade upcoming UFAs and depth if the team is miserable once we're at the trade deadline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion
The main difference between our two lines of thinking is that I'm willing to project the performance level of the current Habs roster.

12th to 15th place.

If we're not signing Semin or doing a big trade, then we're on a collision course with a lottery pick.
The current roster won't be a lottery team unless our coaching staff is somehow worse than last years and we again have the most injuries in the league. These two things are very unlikely.

Imho the Habs are going to finish between 7th and 12th place. With current parity only a few points separate these positions.

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07-26-2012, 02:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
You can make all the arguements you want for "strategically tanking", but all that tells me is that you don't have a clue on what an competitive human being wants..and that's to WIN!

You don't think that EVERY other NHL team wants a shot at the top 3 picks next year? How can you even be sure you could finish in the postion you want?

Do you REALLY think Bergivin would want to strategically tank. How the heck so you do that, trade your core for more pics, stop developing your young talent, sit out your top talent?

A MILLION different scenarios could happen in an NHL season.... who had the Kings winning the cup?

You play to WIN... you want a top 3 pick, you make smart trades to get that asset.

FYI.... it was an 8th place team that won the CUP.... making smart hockey decisons to WIN.... NOW!
Yes, the thought of tanking is for armchair GMs who haven't much of a competive streak in them.
Except that members of management said they couldn't wait for the bad contracts to expire so they could start working for real...

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07-26-2012, 02:12 PM
  #69
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The man games lost is a little overrated IMO. Markov was a big loss but not overly unexpected. Besides him only gionta was a really significant piece lost to injury and that was late in the year when they already were starting to get towards the basement, if i recall correctly.

We were actually quite lucky that our entire top line and pleks (best 4 fwds) stayed healthy all year as well as our two best defensemen (pk and gorges) as well as our starting keeper until the end of the year.

The injuries we sustained in the end were to bottom 6 fwds and lower pairing D man.
Oh please you mean to tell me that man games didn't matter? Cole DD and Pac man were together for a while and the devleoped chemistry. Meanwhile lines 2 3 and 4 have never been together longer than 10 games. How can you develop any chemistry that way? Have you played hockey?

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07-26-2012, 02:17 PM
  #70
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When was the last offseason that Habs fans didn't write: "next year when we have no injuries to Markov/Gionta/Gorges/Cammalleri/Oh Burned/Koivu/Higgins/Latendresse/Pacioretty/Lang/Komisarek/Kostitsyn/Tanguay/Schneider we are going to r0z0rZ !!!!" ???

Every offseason some of you sing the same song.

Last year it was Gorges, Markov, and Pacioretty.

This year it was Gionta and Markov.

Next year it could be Subban and Price.

Here's an exercise. Put the names of the 10 best habs players in a hat. Take out 2. Those will be our major injuries this year. Try and tell me the resulting roster looks like a contender.

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07-26-2012, 02:18 PM
  #71
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i think the habs are a good team that were very unlucky to finish where the did. but i actually reveled in their mediocrity through all of gauthiers idiocy we finally got a prime time prospect and used picks to stock up our system. another draft like that and the habs will be GREAT and not just good for YEARS. Sucking once in a while is a good thing, to reboot the system and making sure you have a steady influx of the best young prospects to build around. You don't build consistent cup contenders via ufa's...you build them by constantly having good young players playing in their primes.

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07-26-2012, 02:22 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
When was the last offseason that Habs fans didn't write: "next year when we have no injuries to Markov/Gionta/Gorges/Cammalleri/Oh Burned/Koivu/Higgins/Latendresse/Pacioretty/Lang/Komisarek/Kostitsyn/Tanguay/Schneider we are going to r0z0rZ !!!!" ???

Every offseason some of you sing the same song.

Last year it was Gorges, Markov, and Pacioretty.

This year it was Gionta and Markov.

Next year it could be Subban and Price.

Here's an exercise. Put the names of the 10 best habs players in a hat. Take out 2. Those will be our major injuries this year. Try and tell me the resulting roster looks like a contender.
This should be stickied and be a forced read for every poster. On top of that, a mandatory read of the list of injuries on other teams should be added. Last year, the Habs lost Gionta. That is all. Markov was already injured. 35 more games of Gionta and more Markov doesn't punt you from 15th to ''good''.

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07-26-2012, 02:25 PM
  #73
Miller Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The main difference between our two lines of thinking is that I'm willing to project the performance level of the current Habs roster.

12th to 15th place.

If we're not signing Semin or doing a big trade, then we're on a collision course with a lottery pick.
but if that's what you think the potential of our current roster is, then what need is there to "tank"?

If we're headed to a lottery pick as it is, there would be no reason for any systematic attempts at "tanking", we could just let the players/coaches compete to their best and live with the lottery-pick spot it gives us.


personally, i don't see how you can extrapolate a 12-15 ranking for our current roster... unless your projection is based on yet another nightmare injury season.

otherwise, adding a healthy Markov/gionta, older Subban/Maxpac/Eller/DD/emelin/diaz & the grit factor Prust/Armstrong/Bouillion add to the group, can't be considered a "downgrade" from the season we had last year.

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07-26-2012, 02:28 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
but if that's what you think the potential of our current roster is, then what need is there to "tank"?

If we're headed to a lottery pick as it is, there would be no reason for any systematic attempts at "tanking", we could just let the players/coaches compete to their best and live with the lottery-pick spot it gives us.


personally, i don't see how you can extrapolate a 12-15 ranking for our current roster... unless your projection is based on yet another nightmare injury season.

otherwise, adding a healthy Markov/gionta, older Subban/Maxpac/Eller/DD/emelin/diaz & the grit factor Prust/Armstrong/Bouillion add to the group, can't be considered a "downgrade" from the season we had last year.
If we're headed to a lottery pick as it is, there would be no reason for any systematic attempts at "tanking", we could just let the players/coaches compete to their best and live with the lottery-pick spot it gives us.

Yes, that is what we want. Try your best, and if that leads to failure, don't go looking for aging players that you can trade for picks ala Gainey/Gauthier.

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07-26-2012, 02:38 PM
  #75
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Montreal current roster is good enough to finish in front of Toronto,ottawa,Ny Ilse, Carolina, Tampa,Florida,New Jersey for sure. Buffalo and winnipeg are full of question marks as well. I also think that Bergevin is not done and there is more moves coming in the off season or later in the year. If healthy this lineup could surprise and finish anywhere between 5th and 10th place but not 12th to 15th.

We already had a good draft this year and we have a more then decent prospect pool right now. Add to that 3 pick in the first 2 round next year and i dont see any need for tanking. Anyway tanking dont assure you of any kind of success just ask some oilers fans. They are tanking for years now and they still finish in the bottom. Also i think that you need to put your young players in a winning situation to help them develop.

I have nothing against trading players for picks and prospects at the trade deadline if we are out of the race but to start a season with a tanking mentality is just wrong for the fans and for the players. New management new coach and most important a new mentality ..a winning one. Go habs go i cant wait for the season to start and for the habs to be in the playoff!!

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