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Wings offseason thread part #whogivesa**** - our team sucks

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07-26-2012, 03:54 PM
  #1
Heaton
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Wings offseason thread part #whogivesa**** - our team sucks

carry on.

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07-26-2012, 04:02 PM
  #2
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Holland failed. He didn't do his job. He took the worst possible gambles instead of the easier or more obvious routes of preparing the team for this day. He gambled on free agency and failed. He tried to make deals that weren't going to happen (And is still trying to get Doan). And then he missed out on the stopgaps (Semin, which was Holland's worst offense). This is all on his head.

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07-26-2012, 04:08 PM
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It's really frustrating seeing a guy like Semin being passed over by Holland for a guy who has a 50/50 chance of even signing somewhere else in Doan. I mean if we somehow sign Doan then that'll be great but if not the next best player is Andrei Kostitsyn. Seeing the contract terms with Semin (1 year/7.0 million) I probably would have given him that to get him here in Detroit, though the extra million would be in bonuses (6.0 million guarenteed/Half a million bonus if he scores 35-40 goals/the other half million if we win the Cup).


Unlike most I still have faith in Holland to do something before the season starts, I'm just hoping he proves me right. Right now it's not looking too promising though.

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07-26-2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Holland failed. He didn't do his job. He took the worst possible gambles instead of the easier or more obvious routes of preparing the team for this day. He gambled on free agency and failed. He tried to make deals that weren't going to happen (And is still trying to get Doan). And then he missed out on the stopgaps (Semin, which was Holland's worst offense). This is all on his head.
So are you saying Holland failed because he's inept, or he failed despite trying?

Because one is certainly more damning than the other...

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07-26-2012, 04:15 PM
  #5
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So are you saying Holland failed because he's inept, or he failed despite trying?

Because one is certainly more damning than the other...
I think it could be said that he failed ineptly while trying. In Semin's case he was not interested. I understand there are variables at play here. But this has not been a good off-season, even for me a Holland die-hard supporter I am left in disbelief over what is happening. With that I must admit criticism is warranted and I am very disappointed with the Wings right now.

He put a priority on free agency, they all said it was important and then failed. That is inept, effort or not.

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07-26-2012, 04:15 PM
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Half the league wanting our problems doesn't mean it's ok.

This could have all been avoided if holland wasn't so passive and cheap.

Now the wings top six acquisition this offseason is mikael Samuelson. Absolutely pathtetic.

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07-26-2012, 04:16 PM
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Holland kept Bertuzzi and signed Samuelsson, and in order to do that he let Jiri Hudler walk for only a little bit more than Samuelsson. He failed to recognize that Parise and Suter were longshots to sign with Detroit, which led to a failure in acquiring Matt Carle as an alternate option to Suter. He has yet to acquire a top-four defenseman to fill either of the two open spots, unless you consider Quincey the "Stuart" replacement - which puts the Wings short a #1 defenseman. Back to forwards, Samuelsson does not replace Hudler. He provides some scoring, and is excellent for depth, but is a downgrade if that is the only move. If a forward comparable to Hudler (such as Doan) is signed, then Samuelsson becomes a replacement for Holmstrom and the team's offense is immediately a significant improvement over last year. The bottom-sixers with Tootoo added are already greatly improved, which is an area Holland greatly succeeded.

Hopefully he can go out and score in the #1 D and top-line scorer areas.

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07-26-2012, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Holland kept Bertuzzi and signed Samuelsson, and in order to do that he let Jiri Hudler walk for only a little bit more than Samuelsson. He failed to recognize that Parise and Suter were longshots to sign with Detroit, which led to a failure in acquiring Matt Carle as an alternate option to Suter. He has yet to acquire a top-four defenseman to fill either of the two open spots, unless you consider Quincey the "Stuart" replacement - which puts the Wings short a #1 defenseman. Back to forwards, Samuelsson does not replace Hudler. He provides some scoring, and is excellent for depth, but is a downgrade if that is the only move. If a forward comparable to Hudler (such as Doan) is signed, then Samuelsson becomes a replacement for Holmstrom and the team's offense is immediately a significant improvement over last year. The bottom-sixers with Tootoo added are already greatly improved, which is an area Holland greatly succeeded.

Hopefully he can go out and score in the #1 D and top-line scorer areas.
Hudler is comparable to Doan? Seriously?

Carle is no better than anything we've got, either.

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07-26-2012, 04:20 PM
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So are you saying Holland failed because he's inept, or he failed despite trying?

Because one is certainly more damning than the other...
In a way, he failed both by trying and being inept. I can't blame him for failing to get Suter. I can blame him for not putting us in a situation where it wouldn't be devastating if we missed out on him. I do blame him for going after Nash and Doan, two pipe dreams by definition, when there was obviously an asset to be had for free in Semin. But we let him go by the wayside because of some stupid overblown attitude problem, with the fleeting hope that Doan gets drunk and decides for whatever reason that Detroit is his preferred destination inspite of the fact there are better teams to sign with. You can't let your team get to this point where you have to gamble in free agency just to keep up with the competition. That's terrible management strategy.

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07-26-2012, 04:25 PM
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Hudler is comparable to Doan? Seriously?

Carle is no better than anything we've got, either.
Yea, I stopped reading as soon as I hit that part.

The difference between Sammy and Hudler is miniscule. I personally think Sammy is better.

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07-26-2012, 04:26 PM
  #11
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Except we DO have a serious problem. Our team right now doesn't come even close to comparing what we had that made us so dominant. All of our useful pieces are fading away.
And it's unfathomable for the Wings to NOT be dominant every season? So what if there are a couple of weak seasons here and there?

I mean, if it's a requirement that things a person likes have to be the absolute best at all times... well, they have a word for that.

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Hudler is comparable to Doan? Seriously?
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Originally Posted by ZDH View Post
Yea, I stopped reading as soon as I hit that part.
Production-wise, Hudler is absolutely comparable to Doan. Otherwise, they're two totally different players.

Quote:
The difference between Sammy and Hudler is miniscule. I personally think Sammy is better.
Again, two completely different types of players suited for different roles.

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07-26-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
And it's unfathomable for the Wings to NOT be dominant every season? So what if there are a couple of weak seasons here and there?

I mean, if it's a requirement that things a person likes have to be the absolute best at all times... well, they have a word for that.
Weak seasons are fine if they are for the greater good. I don't see the good in what has gone on this year. We have no room for kids and we're not looking at any long term plan. It's bizarre.

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07-26-2012, 04:30 PM
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And it's unfathomable for the Wings to NOT be dominant every season? So what if there are a couple of weak seasons here and there?

I mean, if it's a requirement that things a person likes have to be the absolute best at all times... well, they have a word for that.
I don't demand that our team be the best in the league every year for the rest of eternity. I don't expect us to win the Stanley Cup 21 years in a row. I do expect that we are kept a contender that is a threat each year to win the Cup. Holland is not accomplishing this. The team is falling apart.

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07-26-2012, 04:32 PM
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Hudler is comparable to Doan? Seriously?

Carle is no better than anything we've got, either.
For production alone Hudler is nearly Doan's equal. Of course he doesn't provide size, toughness, or speed.

I agree that Sammy in and Hudler out was only good as long as we got another top-6 guy. Well, Doan is our last shot.

As to the team, however, I'm going to reserve judgment until I see them play. The youth of Nyquist and Smith, along with the possibly more disruptive tandem of Tootoo with Helm, makes things interesting. If Nyquist and Smith perform above expectations, it could just be the post-Yzerman transition all over again.

In addition to that, there's a bountiful crop of UFAs next year (not all are top tier, but all could possibly play in excess of their value) : Getzlaf, Perry, Zajac, Enstrom, Clowe, Penner, Edler, and Horton.

And as much as we've *****ed about Franzen and Hudler, I think we lose the most useless player, relative to his contract, next year - Cleary. We also haven't spent to the cap so we could still have cap space left over even after re-signing Filppula and Howard.

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07-26-2012, 04:33 PM
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It's been fun watching Wings fans whine about not landing Semin. The constant chicken little syndrome continues too. If it means they jump off the wagon, fine by me.

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07-26-2012, 04:36 PM
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Weak seasons are fine if they are for the greater good. I don't see the good in what has gone on this year. We have no room for kids and we're not looking at any long term plan. It's bizarre.
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I don't demand that our team be the best in the league every year for the rest of eternity. I don't expect us to win the Stanley Cup 21 years in a row. I do expect that we are kept a contender that is a threat each year to win the Cup. Holland is not accomplishing this. The team is falling apart.
Remember that next season isn't set in stone, ESPECIALLY regarding the salary cap. If that goes down, what then? What of those big spenders who loaded up on high-priced talent?

You have to take all contingencies into consideration; IF the cap goes down, the Wings are sitting pretty and will be able to pick up good players for a return of nothing. Then again, IF the cap stays where it is -- and barring any major trades after everything settles -- we're likely in for a long 82 games.

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07-26-2012, 04:39 PM
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Hudler is comparable to Doan? Seriously?

Carle is no better than anything we've got, either.
I was speaking in terms of offense. If anything, Doan is inferior in that aspect.

As for Carle, Kronwall is the only defenseman on the team in his league. He's very good offensively, plays a physical game, and plays well defensively. After Suter still wasn't signed on the morning of July 3rd, Holland should have signed Matt Carle and then looked into trading Quincey or even White for a physical, defensive guy like Volchenkov. Maybe even looked into what it would take for one of Staal/McDonagh/Girardi trade from New York. Actually, that's still a good idea. If (after signing Carle) you could get away dealing Ian White, Gustav Nyquist, and a first rounder for that would be great.

Alternatively, look into the rights for Del Zotto. He's not a shut-down type, but he'd be a great pickup - especially if it were Quincey and not White who were dealt.

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07-26-2012, 04:40 PM
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Remember that next season isn't set in stone, ESPECIALLY regarding the salary cap. If that goes down, what then? What of those big spenders who loaded up on high-priced talent?

You have to take all contingencies into consideration; IF the cap goes down, the Wings are sitting pretty and will be able to pick up good players for a return of nothing. Then again, IF the cap stays where it is, well we're likely in for a long 82 games.
Salary rollbacks will occur and dead-weight contracts are dumped off. If you think Scott Gomez or Shawn Horcoff or Michal Handzus or Keith Ballard will be great pickups for peanuts for the Wings, then that's your opinion. To each their own.

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07-26-2012, 04:41 PM
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Semin at 7 million is just ludicrous.

However, I can say for sure that Wings next season will have to change their game plan quite significantly if they want to make playoff.

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07-26-2012, 04:41 PM
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In Babcock's words 'I'm pissed'.

I proposed that one year 7 mil for Semin at this board some time ago but basically thought he would want more years. I'm pissed. I'm pretty sure that he plays well, gets +30 goals. Basically small risk/higs reward signing. Esp. because we have plenty of cap space. And think about bringing Doan in so it's not like we don't have room. I hope the only reason we didn't go after Semin is Dats didn't want him.

I'm pissed now.

I'm leaning on **** you Holland-side now.

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07-26-2012, 04:43 PM
  #21
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Except we DO have a serious problem. Our team right now doesn't come even close to comparing what we had that made us so dominant. All of our useful pieces are fading away.
on defense possibly, but in terms of our forward group, its comparable to the group we have when we won the cup in 2008. I mean our top forwards that year were Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Cleary and Hudler. Now we have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula and Franzen. Datsyuk and Zetterberg probably won't perform as well as they did that year but Filppula and Franzen both improved a lot stats wise in comparison to 2008. Our defense isn't as good compared to that year, but its hardly as terrible as most make it to be. Ericsson really came into his own last season and should be a solid defensive top 4 defensemen. As much as I don't like Quincey he's also proven to be able to play well in the top 4. Kronwall and White are both solid top 4 players and some of you seem to think Smith should have been able to fit well into the top 4 last season. Kindl has proven to be able to play well as a bottom pairing defensemen, so while our defense isn't as good as last years, its not as bad as most seem to think.

For the people who are hating on Holland, sure he's made some mistakes but he has addressed our needs and filled them (not as well as most of you like, but he has addressed them). He got another top 6 fw, who likes to shoot and can play on the point in the pp in Samuelsson. He also added the grit we all wanted in Tootoo. Lastly he added in Brunner who is a low risk signing that could possibly play in our top 6 and add to our depth.

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07-26-2012, 04:45 PM
  #22
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It's been fun watching Wings fans whine about not landing Semin. The constant chicken little syndrome continues too. If it means they jump off the wagon, fine by me.
I'm not so annoyed by the fact that they didn't land Semin, but rather because they didn't even bother to try and get him. Holland is putting all his hope into signing Doan, even though it seems like a long shot that Doan would sign with the Wings.

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07-26-2012, 04:45 PM
  #23
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Better see a fair amount of Nyquist and Tatar since we are bypassing anyone worth a damn.

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07-26-2012, 04:47 PM
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Salary rollbacks will occur and dead-weight contracts are dumped off. If you think Scott Gomez or Shawn Horcoff or Michal Handzus or Keith Ballard will be great pickups for peanuts for the Wings, then that's your opinion. To each their own.
Did I say or imply that?

How do you know exactly what contracts would be dumped? You can't dump a player if nobody wants them, you know.

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07-26-2012, 04:52 PM
  #25
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Tired of it.
It's a little sad to watch the GM let the team fall to pieces.

Willing to make a "huge offer" for Nash's $7,8m contract? Can't sign Semin, who is a better defensive player, for $7M?


Maybe this Brunner kid is the deal.

The Red Wings need to be bold this offseason. There were some challenges -- replacing Lids and Stuart a year after losing Raffy -- that were a tall order.

You probably weren't going to be able to make that happen this offseason even if you signed Suter.

Still... there were other needs. And this organization just didn't meet them.

We needed a top pairing D and a legit top 6 forward and a gritty bottom line forward.
We got Samuelsson and Brunner and Tootoo

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