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Old
07-24-2012, 09:52 PM
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
I never said the D wasn't a problem.

Its just funny how Bryz played like a maniac in March with the exact same D in front of him.

I would say our troubles last year were 75% Bryz, 24% D and 1% anal seepage.
you left the word delicious out of the anal seepage part. other than that your percentages reflect a highly skilled mathematician sucka. ow. no. i think he started well. got a false sense of security early, then the defense went in the crapper (pronger went down, other guys banged up) , he started to let in crappers, lost his confidence then lavi started the whole carousel which didn't help his confidence, then right after the all star break laviolette verbally states to the media that bryz is gonna be the guy down the stretch which ignites some confidence and he starts to play like the goalie he truly is. then he breaks his foot from that numb nuts voracek and we go into a psychotic series with the pens and we decide offense is the best defense and you get mixed results again. the end. he is a good goalie. you need not look farther than that winnipeg game to really capsulize the way they played in front of both goalies too often. he needs to be better but more importantly the defense needs to exist in some way for any goalie to thrive.

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07-25-2012, 12:57 AM
  #577
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He was letting in crap before Pronger went down and while Timonen was being a beast.

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07-25-2012, 01:21 AM
  #578
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Anal seepage is always a problem

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07-25-2012, 10:59 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
He was letting in crap before Pronger went down and while Timonen was being a beast.
so you accuse me of fudging facts but you call timonen a beast. solid but beast is an exaggeration. just because he is old and can take a beating doesn't make him a beast. he was solid and well positioned. weber would've been the beast you speak of. sucks that the dream is dead. i do think with a year's worth of chemistry we will be a lot better from the goaltending on out this year. you got to give makeover's like ours at least a year but if we get the same up and down results i'll be right there criticizing with you no matter how much i like certain players.

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07-25-2012, 11:40 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
so you accuse me of fudging facts but you call timonen a beast. solid but beast is an exaggeration. just because he is old and can take a beating doesn't make him a beast. he was solid and well positioned. weber would've been the beast you speak of. sucks that the dream is dead. i do think with a year's worth of chemistry we will be a lot better from the goaltending on out this year. you got to give makeover's like ours at least a year but if we get the same up and down results i'll be right there criticizing with you no matter how much i like certain players.
Were you watching Timonen through December, until he started getting hurt in January? Guy was having his best defensive season in a long time til that point. Then his body remembered that it's old.

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07-25-2012, 11:42 AM
  #581
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Timonen is a beast, he plays through more pain than any other Flyer and never sits out, and still remains our best D man on 95% of nights

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07-25-2012, 01:32 PM
  #582
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no co-incidence that Bryz had his best stretch as the D in from of him [team D, not just defensemen] played their best defensive hockey of the year. not only was Bryz #1 star of March, the Flyers were 11-4.

add to that he showed up vs NJ, unlike 99% of the team

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07-25-2012, 02:13 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Were you watching Timonen through December, until he started getting hurt in January? Guy was having his best defensive season in a long time til that point. Then his body remembered that it's old.
Agreed, he was playing amazing hockey for the first few months.

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07-25-2012, 04:22 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Were you watching Timonen through December, until he started getting hurt in January? Guy was having his best defensive season in a long time til that point. Then his body remembered that it's old.
yea. he was great. even after the back thing started screwin him i didn't even notice. he plays mistake free hockey through injuries but he had to recover a lot based off his own instincts. I'm not absolving goals that were scored glazing bryzgalovs glove hand but the game plan led to turnovers galore through december too.

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07-25-2012, 04:45 PM
  #585
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We really didn't have THAT many more turnovers than other teams. We were a little below the 50th percentile in the league...allowing only 6 more (total) than the Rangers. As I've been saying, I think a big part of the reason they seemed so obvious is that Bryz simply wasn't stopping them as much as other teams' goalies, which drew attention to them. Other teams had defensive zone turnovers against us all the time, but their goalie stopped those shots more often than not.

I don't know what the breakdown by zone is, however. For instance, Phoenix had 44 more turnovers than we did, but that might have all been in the offensive zone.

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07-25-2012, 05:03 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
We really didn't have THAT many more turnovers than other teams. We were a little below the 50th percentile in the league...allowing only 6 more (total) than the Rangers. As I've been saying, I think a big part of the reason they seemed so obvious is that Bryz simply wasn't stopping them as much as other teams' goalies, which drew attention to them. Other teams had defensive zone turnovers against us all the time, but their goalie stopped those shots more often than not.

I don't know what the breakdown by zone is, however. For instance, Phoenix had 44 more turnovers than we did, but that might have all been in the offensive zone.
well thats key. these stats exist somewhere. I'm not wiling to painstakingly find them but i do look at our fans opinions and how they relate to those "facts". this debate at this point just boils down to opinion. i know the contract is looked down on but BEFORE that was signed how did you view bryzgalov? good? overrated? average? crap?

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07-25-2012, 05:37 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
well thats key. these stats exist somewhere. I'm not wiling to painstakingly find them but i do look at our fans opinions and how they relate to those "facts". this debate at this point just boils down to opinion. i know the contract is looked down on but BEFORE that was signed how did you view bryzgalov? good? overrated? average? crap?
Well, I don't know how different those stats would be when it comes to the Flyers' position relative to other teams. After all, other teams have defensive zone turnovers too. At times it seemed like people thought we were the only team doing that stuff. The stats say Buffalo had a boatload of turnovers, and I saw from the (few) games I watched that they had a LOT of those in their own end, definitely more than the Flyers...yet Miller still put up better numbers than Bryz, with a bad team in front of him. That was one of the huge frustrations: goalies on much worse teams doing noticeably better despite their circumstances.

After the contract I thought he was very good. I thought our goalie issues were fixed, until his contract outlives its usefulness and his play declined with age. His performance last season blindsided me. If you want, you'll find me predicting that our defense would be worse than in years prior, but that Bryzgalov would make up for it.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 07-25-2012 at 05:55 PM. Reason: switching to future tense
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07-25-2012, 06:17 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Well, I don't know how different those stats would be when it comes to the Flyers' position relative to other teams. After all, other teams have defensive zone turnovers too. At times it seemed like people thought we were the only team doing that stuff. The stats say Buffalo had a boatload of turnovers, and I saw from the (few) games I watched that they had a LOT of those in their own end, definitely more than the Flyers...yet Miller still put up better numbers than Bryz, with a bad team in front of him. That was one of the huge frustrations: goalies on much worse teams doing noticeably better despite their circumstances.

After the contract I thought he was very good. I thought our goalie issues were fixed, until his contract outlives its usefulness and his play declined with age. His performance last season blindsided me. If you want, you'll find me predicting that our defense would be worse than in years prior, but that Bryzgalov would make up for it.
its obvious. you don't have to go out of your way explaining your predictions. thanks tho. I think i've made excuses and you've crucified. i also think for the most part your right based off last year's results. i'm also not oblivious to the fact that most people think he sucks. i just find it strange that most of those opinions are based off an underlying vibe that he was placed onto an existing team already structured and in place where the only hole that was in need of filling was his position. the fact that the whole team was ripped apart and reassembled around a piece that was erased early on in the season would seem to change the perspective in my mind that all we needed was a goalie to win a cup. last year and 2010 mide as well be 20 years apart. i just accepted last year for what it was. a question mark from day one. i really didn't have high standards. i do think he'll have been almost worth that contract in the end. remains to be seen tho.

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07-25-2012, 06:54 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
you left the word delicious out of the anal seepage part. other than that your percentages reflect a highly skilled mathematician sucka. ow. no. i think he started well. got a false sense of security early, then the defense went in the crapper (pronger went down, other guys banged up) , he started to let in crappers, lost his confidence then lavi started the whole carousel which didn't help his confidence, then right after the all star break laviolette verbally states to the media that bryz is gonna be the guy down the stretch which ignites some confidence and he starts to play like the goalie he truly is. then he breaks his foot from that numb nuts voracek and we go into a psychotic series with the pens and we decide offense is the best defense and you get mixed results again. the end. he is a good goalie. you need not look farther than that winnipeg game to really capsulize the way they played in front of both goalies too often. he needs to be better but more importantly the defense needs to exist in some way for any goalie to thrive.
Dude he was garbage nearly the whole month of Oct. He had a small decent run through Nov. into mid December and became garbage again until March; where just as the playoffs were in view he decided to stick his head up his ass and go back into BUM mode.

The guy had a lousy year that was majorly driven by himself.

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07-25-2012, 07:19 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Dude he was garbage nearly the whole month of Oct. He had a small decent run through Nov. into mid December and became garbage again until March; where just as the playoffs were in view he decided to stick his head up his ass and go back into BUM mode.

The guy had a lousy year that was majorly driven by himself.
yea. i know. you've said this before. but maybe i'll forget what i saw with the team in front and install tunnel vision blaming 1 guy for every goal against during the entire season. its seems to be a lot easier that way. works for you. he rules and you know it. you wouldn't want to look at his picture every time you posted unless you loved him. admit it.

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07-25-2012, 07:32 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
he rules and you know it. you wouldn't want to look at his picture every time you posted unless you loved him. admit it.
You're making yourself pretty easy to dismiss. These claims are homerish fanboy nonsense.

Bryzgalov admitted in interviews that he was performing poorly several times during the season. Will you not listen to your own hero?

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07-25-2012, 07:38 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
You're making yourself pretty easy to dismiss. These claims are homerish fanboy nonsense.

Bryzgalov admitted in interviews that he was performing poorly several times during the season. Will you not listen to your own hero?
your making yourself look pretty generic in your comments. congratulations on having the same opinion as everybody else.

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07-25-2012, 07:40 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
your making yourself look pretty generic in your comments. congratulations on having the same opinion as everybody else.
I have the same opinion as Bryzgalov.

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07-25-2012, 07:42 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
I have the same opinion as Bryzgalov.
bryzgalov looked lost at times just like bob. they both sucked bad at times. so did the defense. I'm not saying they didn't . i'm just not writing him off like some seem to be. he had his crap year. it time to be who i think he is. a vezina caliber goalie. problem is we need to be more than run and gun in front.

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07-25-2012, 08:04 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
a vezina caliber goalie
I've been crunching goalie numbers in a spreadsheet to determine the consistency with which netminders have down years. Bryz has had two down years in the last five, which is above normal (most netminders have 1 year out of 5 down.) Perhaps that can be attributed to the change of scenery and he will bounce back. The proof is in the pudding.

Annoyed by my desire to defend Bryz as simply having an off-year, I went game by game and looked at media incidents or Flyer's "events" compared SV% by game / incidents to see if the Philadelphia climate was the reason for his above average 2/5 down years. I came up with some interesting trends that I'll put out elsewhere.

Quote:
problem is we need to be more than run and gun in front.
The Flyers aren't run and gun in their own end. They are run and gun in the other two zones. Certainly, they need to get better on their end, but it is hard to draw the fault line on if it was the forwards, the defensemen, or Bryz. Look at enough stats on the subject and the quality of defense being played doesn't look to have a huge impact on SV%, but rather GAA.

For instance, in 2007-2008: Bryz's SV% .921
Phoenix 17th in league in goals against. Would you say Bryz was bad or Phoenix was?

This year: Flyers 21st out of 30.... Bryz's SV% .909

Bryz's "Vezina" year. 09-10: SV% .920. Phoenix that same year 3rd best in the league goals against. Do you give credit to Bryz, who had a lower SV% than 2007-2008's .921 but the goal's against were high, or to Phoenix's defense?

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07-25-2012, 08:58 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
I've been crunching goalie numbers in a spreadsheet to determine the consistency with which netminders have down years. Bryz has had two down years in the last five, which is above normal (most netminders have 1 year out of 5 down.) Perhaps that can be attributed to the change of scenery and he will bounce back. The proof is in the pudding.

Annoyed by my desire to defend Bryz as simply having an off-year, I went game by game and looked at media incidents or Flyer's "events" compared SV% by game / incidents to see if the Philadelphia climate was the reason for his above average 2/5 down years. I came up with some interesting trends that I'll put out elsewhere.



The Flyers aren't run and gun in their own end. They are run and gun in the other two zones. Certainly, they need to get better on their end, but it is hard to draw the fault line on if it was the forwards, the defensemen, or Bryz. Look at enough stats on the subject and the quality of defense being played doesn't look to have a huge impact on SV%, but rather GAA.

For instance, in 2007-2008: Bryz's SV% .921
Phoenix 17th in league in goals against. Would you say Bryz was bad or Phoenix was?

This year: Flyers 21st out of 30.... Bryz's SV% .909

Bryz's "Vezina" year. 09-10: SV% .920. Phoenix that same year 3rd best in the league goals against. Do you give credit to Bryz, who had a lower SV% than 2007-2008's .921 but the goal's against were high, or to Phoenix's defense?
there are so many ridiculous variables that come into play. 2007/08 phoenix still sucked. bryz was thrown in off waivers. 2 years down the road you have a goalie who's teams's goalie coach and whole system was well implemented by then. they collapse around the circles in their own zone where as philly is always looking to breakout on the turnover (opposed to settling down the play). this season too many times ahead of the play which led to weak goals that only compounded the pressure. of course we play man to man positionally but we make a lot of high risk passes in bad areas of our zone. we didn't change our game plan because we lost that first pass when pronger went down. were back at square one in terms of our opinions on the quality of shots he's facing here opposed to there. i think they were a lot rougher here this year.


Last edited by funghoul: 07-25-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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07-26-2012, 09:15 AM
  #597
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maybe i'll forget what i saw with the team in front and install tunnel vision blaming 1 guy for every goal against during the entire season. its seems to be a lot easier that way.
it's only a small minority that sees goal in net = goalies fault . the vast majority saw the awful team D last year, save for the month of march.

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07-26-2012, 09:44 AM
  #598
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OMG...the dude hasn't even strapped on pads for this upcoming season and we're still debating him? Look..by his own admission Bryz said he didn't have a good year and manned up and also THANKED his critics. Let's judge him going forward....he had a not so great transition year. With the D being more stay at home and Bryz knowing what to expect in Philadelphia "goalie heel" as he says in his accent...we should see a better product. If he plays mediocre again and it's obvious the D isn't contributing to his mediocrity..then he's fair game again and he can be nominated as the biggest goat in that old thread...but for now give it a rest.

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07-26-2012, 06:30 PM
  #599
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the TEAM D needs to be better ... like they were in March.
Bryz needs to be more consistent & like he was in March. he also oughtta stay away from the press, his job is to concentrate on playing goal, not entertain the media. he should respond with bland, 1 word / short / generic answers & make the press look elsewhere for stories.

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07-26-2012, 06:31 PM
  #600
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OMG...the dude hasn't even strapped on pads for this upcoming season and we're still debating him? Look..by his own admission Bryz said he didn't have a good year and manned up and also THANKED his critics. Let's judge him going forward....he had a not so great transition year. With the D being more stay at home and Bryz knowing what to expect in Philadelphia "goalie heel" as he says in his accent...we should see a better product. If he plays mediocre again and it's obvious the D isn't contributing to his mediocrity..then he's fair game again and he can be nominated as the biggest goat in that old thread...but for now give it a rest.
were bored what can i tell you. this is the most simple and fun debate on here i think so were just trying to keep occupied til september. the above paragraph is what i've been saying btw so i agree with you. i just like our team including our goalie a lot. there's only one dude i aint defending on the flyers and his name rhymes with nelley.

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