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Nash, Delisle, Cond. 3rd Rnd to Rangers for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, 1st Rnd

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Old
07-26-2012, 09:26 PM
  #976
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EspenK, I agree with everything in that post except for the depth of defense. It's more than good enough.

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07-26-2012, 09:27 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I think many here are way to optimistic regarding the teams chances next year. Probably a relative of the Cubs fan syndrome or trying to feel much better about the trade.

Goaltending remains a potential issue.

Scoring will be at a premium - I see us at around 210 goals at best and more likely below.

We have no real 1st liners so whoever gets matched up against the opponents top pair is going to be at a distinct disadvantage.

Depth remains an issue, especially on offense should injuries occur (and they will);defensively we have a lot of bodies beyond the top 4 and Aucoin but other than Savard & Holden not any with NHL experience and their's is limited.

Coaching staff is new with the exception of Richards.

And go back to the exercise of who are we going to jump past to so dramatically improve?

Will team be better? Can't be any worse and will probably play well enough to finish 25th and finally win the lottery

Is the foundation laid for a better team? Yes. It will take a year or two for chemistry to develop and for RyJo, CAM, Murray, Erixson, Moore to develop a bit more.

Some top offensive talent either through trades or drafting will be necessary

And of course goaltending must be stabilized.

I think and hope they will be competitive on most nights but at the end of the day, I just don't think they have the necessary players to be playoff team.

I think blah's assesment of 85 points was about as good as it is going to get.
Yeah...If this team had a Pekke Rinne or Jon Quick type at G then I'd be buying.

Just not seeing it....

Honestly if there ever was a year to suck, this would be the year to do it. and pray the Rangers and Kings underachieve as well. We'll get there though. I like what we are trying to do. It's just tough to get that goalie

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07-26-2012, 11:31 PM
  #978
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07-26-2012, 11:46 PM
  #979
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I wonder if they still have their 2011 Vancouver Canucks Stanley Cup shirts?

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07-27-2012, 12:51 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
I am actually a tad bit excited.

The fact of the matter is that we didn't win with Nash here. We can say it was because he didn't have a center or this or that and some of those things may have been true.

I think change can sometimes be a good thing. Don't get me wrong, I don't love the thought of us trading Nash, but it is what it is at this point and I've moved on. We didn't win with him so why not try something else?

Dubi is saying all of the right things and unlike Carter he sounds sincere. I think he is a nice piece to the puzzle as well as the other guys that we got.

Take a look at our roster - we are a really young team (only 4 players in there 30's and 2 of those are 30 & 31). We have a fair bit of talent, although it's not the top end talent that we desire. I like the potential that all of the new kids bring - Dubi, Arti, Foligno - as well. Almost all of our forwards have a nice 2 way game and we have a solid blueline. If we can get a solid season from Bob in net, we're going to be a tough team to score against. Will we score enough will be the big question.

Some more questions: is this the year that Brassard starts to take games over? How much better will Johan be in year #2? Can Cam light it up at the NHL like he did in the AHL most of last year?

A lot of 'ifs' & questions, but a lot of potential as well, imo. I'm mildly excited to see what this team can do on the ice.
With you every step of the way, pretty much.

But as to the bold, perhaps I'm jaded, or perhaps I'm a typical Jackets fan, but I have a bad feeling about the answers to those questions.

sure hope I'm wrong. I really want to see Jackets prospects bust out.

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07-27-2012, 01:01 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
With you every step of the way, pretty much.

But as to the bold, perhaps I'm jaded, or perhaps I'm a typical Jackets fan, but I have a bad feeling about the answers to those questions.

sure hope I'm wrong. I really want to see Jackets prospects bust out.
Don't most of the Jackets prospects "bust out" of the NHL?

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07-27-2012, 01:12 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I think many here are way to optimistic regarding the teams chances next year. Probably a relative of the Cubs fan syndrome or trying to feel much better about the trade.

Goaltending remains a potential issue.

Scoring will be at a premium - I see us at around 210 goals at best and more likely below.

We have no real 1st liners so whoever gets matched up against the opponents top pair is going to be at a distinct disadvantage.

Depth remains an issue, especially on offense should injuries occur (and they will);defensively we have a lot of bodies beyond the top 4 and Aucoin but other than Savard & Holden not any with NHL experience and their's is limited.

Coaching staff is new with the exception of Richards.

And go back to the exercise of who are we going to jump past to so dramatically improve?

Will team be better? Can't be any worse and will probably play well enough to finish 25th and finally win the lottery

Is the foundation laid for a better team? Yes. It will take a year or two for chemistry to develop and for RyJo, CAM, Murray, Erixson, Moore to develop a bit more.

Some top offensive talent either through trades or drafting will be necessary

And of course goaltending must be stabilized.

I think and hope they will be competitive on most nights but at the end of the day, I just don't think they have the necessary players to be playoff team.

I think blah's assesment of 85 points was about as good as it is going to get.
Nice post, you'll get no arguments from me. Your assessment is pretty much how I'm approaching this season. What I want to see is a pain in the ass team with a surplus of pride. In a way, I'm glad a marquee player didn't come back via the Nash trade, because I'm tired of relying on a small percentage of the team to carry the rest of it. (In a way).

What I hope is that these new guys identify with the Columbus Blue Jackets and decide they are going to change the league's perception. Not only the Nash trade guys, but Foligno as well, and Bob. If they can buy in, and give everyone else a hassle, I will be satisfied.

for next year.

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07-27-2012, 01:25 AM
  #983
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Don't most of the Jackets prospects "bust out" of the NHL?
ummm....

(which is a big part of what I mean!)

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07-27-2012, 08:08 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I think many here are way to optimistic regarding the teams chances next year. Probably a relative of the Cubs fan syndrome or trying to feel much better about the trade.

Goaltending remains a potential issue. Absolutely, I've been floored by the way this issue has been handled

Scoring will be at a premium - I see us at around 210 goals at best and more likely below. Clear offensive skill seems to not be a strong suit of the current forward group, however, I expect at least one or two of these guys to have career years, will that translate to gawdy number? probably not, but I'm not ruling out this team being totally offensively challenged

We have no real 1st liners so whoever gets matched up against the opponents top pair is going to be at a distinct disadvantage. We have guys that are willing to play the body in the top six, something we've rarely had, we have, essentially, a team full of "checkers".

Depth remains an issue, especially on offense should injuries occur (and they will);defensively we have a lot of bodies beyond the top 4 and Aucoin but other than Savard & Holden not any with NHL experience and their's is limited. Won't disagree here at all, our forward depth (especially those capable of playing in top six) is extremely weak

Coaching staff is new with the exception of Richards. I Expect some kinks that will need worked out, but this staff isn't green like Arniel's was, Hartsburg and Acton bring close to 40 years of NHL coaching experience combined

And go back to the exercise of who are we going to jump past to so dramatically improve? I'm in agreement with you here as well

Will team be better? Can't be any worse and will probably play well enough to finish 25th and finally win the lottery Agree again, If by "be better" you mean finish in either 29th or above, yes, I expect that, not sure how high we could finish, maybe if Bob stays healthy and takes the number one spot and we stay relatively healthy elsewhere, maybe we could finish in the 11th spot in the west.

Is the foundation laid for a better team? Yes. It will take a year or two for chemistry to develop and for RyJo, CAM, Murray, Erixson, Moore to develop a bit more. I'm not sold on Atkinson as a full time top sixer, and unfortunately, with his size, there's really nowhere else in the nhl he should be playing. If Tim Erixon wants to play here, truly, then with Murray and Moore, we've got a good looking "future" D core, Let's hope RyJo's weight doesn't hinder his playing style like we saw with Voracek.

Some top offensive talent either through trades or drafting will be necessary Yes. And I suspect the next chance that Howson will take advantage of will be the 2013 draft, as I doubt we will be in a position to ship prospects and picks away at the deadline for talent. With three firsts, I'd expect at least two of those to be used on forwards that are skilled.

And of course goaltending must be stabilized. Yeah

I think and hope they will be competitive on most nights but at the end of the day, I just don't think they have the necessary players to be playoff team. Not enough forward depth, questinable goaltending and not enough skill to be one this season

I think blah's assesment of 85 points was about as good as it is going to get.Agree, If this team is tougher to play against too (you're not walking into Nationwide without leaving considerably sore) this is probably the best we can get this season
Good assesment Espen, my comments in blue.

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07-27-2012, 10:46 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Good assesment Espen, my comments in blue.
Good work from you both.

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07-27-2012, 10:57 AM
  #986
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I guess, since everyone else is all in with your comments, it's left to me to take issue where I feel appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
I think many here are way to optimistic regarding the teams chances next year. Probably a relative of the Cubs fan syndrome or trying to feel much better about the trade.
I don't see "many" overly optimistic. I do see a lot of people wondering how good the team will be based on its acknowledged strengths and weaknesses.

Quote:
Goaltending remains a potential issue.
Potential? It's clearly an issue, and one which looks like it's going to have to resolve itself.

Quote:
Scoring will be at a premium - I see us at around 210 goals at best and more likely below.

We have no real 1st liners so whoever gets matched up against the opponents top pair is going to be at a distinct disadvantage.
As many have acknowledged, even those "way too optimistic."

Quote:
Depth remains an issue, especially on offense should injuries occur (and they will);defensively we have a lot of bodies beyond the top 4 and Aucoin but other than Savard & Holden not any with NHL experience and their's is limited.
Moore has pretty much all of last year as NHL experience, to add to your list of those beyond the top 5 with limited experience. Pretty sure that counts as depth. Forwards, that's another story.

Quote:
Coaching staff is new with the exception of Richards.
New here but not new to coaching at the NHL level.

Quote:
And go back to the exercise of who are we going to jump past to so dramatically improve?

Will team be better? Can't be any worse and will probably play well enough to finish 25th and finally win the lottery
Good luck predicting this with any level of accuracy. Best to just ride it out.

Quote:
Is the foundation laid for a better team? Yes. It will take a year or two for chemistry to develop and for RyJo, CAM, Murray, Erixson, Moore to develop a bit more.
OK.

Quote:
Some top offensive talent either through trades or drafting will be necessary
OK.

Quote:
And of course goaltending must be stabilized.
You trying to count this twice?

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Old
07-27-2012, 12:05 PM
  #987
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Dubinsky's father was born and raised in NYC--not a surprise that Brandon became a Rangers fan. Brandon's father moved to Alaska--Brandon was born there. When Brandon was drafted he was about 5'10"--170 lbs and a pest kind of player--compared often to Darcy Tucker. About a season after that he had a major growth spurt. All of a sudden he was 6'1 and over 200 lbs. His style of game changed. When he got to the Rangers--halfway through his rookie season Renney put him on a line with Jaromir Jagr and Jagr helped him to develop a power game. Dubinsky is a really hard guy to knock off the puck. He was as good as we had cycling the puck deep in the other teams end. He's got good hands and a good shot but only average creativity. He's good at carrying the puck up the ice. He likes to play physical--whether getting or giving hits.
Wings fan here, coming in peace (kinda dumb that you almost need to toss that out so fans of other teams don't assume you're trashing their team).

Not to cue the CNN breaking news music, but you're saddled with a bad GM and while I'm not sure this is the best possible deal he could have gotten for Nash, I have to say that I'm a big fan of AA and especially Dubinsky. I was actually kinda hoping that Holland could buy low on Dubie after his off year last season, b/c I'd love to have his game and versatility in Detroit. I think he'll be a fan favorite pretty quickly, and while it'll be nice to see him play more now that he's in the Central, I'm not looking forward to him pasting Datsyuk and Zetterberg into the glass (and then I'd hope that Abdelkader thinks twice about going after him, b/c he should want no part of Dubie in a scrap).

I think Anisimov will be pretty good also in a more offensive role, and you know he's good defensively when a coach as demanding as Torts plays him on a shutdown line. Basically, I would have loved either of those guys to land in Detroit somehow, and I hope that they do well in Cbus- except when they play the Wings, in which case I hope they go a combined -7

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07-27-2012, 12:20 PM
  #988
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Wings fan here, coming in peace (kinda dumb that you almost need to toss that out so fans of other teams don't assume you're trashing their team).

Not to cue the CNN breaking news music, but you're saddled with a bad GM and while I'm not sure this is the best possible deal he could have gotten for Nash, I have to say that I'm a big fan of AA and especially Dubinsky. I was actually kinda hoping that Holland could buy low on Dubie after his off year last season, b/c I'd love to have his game and versatility in Detroit. I think he'll be a fan favorite pretty quickly, and while it'll be nice to see him play more now that he's in the Central, I'm not looking forward to him pasting Datsyuk and Zetterberg into the glass (and then I'd hope that Abdelkader thinks twice about going after him, b/c he should want no part of Dubie in a scrap).

I think Anisimov will be pretty good also in a more offensive role, and you know he's good defensively when a coach as demanding as Torts plays him on a shutdown line. Basically, I would have loved either of those guys to land in Detroit somehow, and I hope that they do well in Cbus- except when they play the Wings, in which case I hope they go a combined -7
Thanks for your thoughts, Turkish.

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07-27-2012, 12:46 PM
  #989
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Saw This on twitter, holy smokes Erixson can fly. Makes me feel much better with the deal. Also, I think prospal was in howsons ear on this trade.

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7/23/12 8:11 PM
holy smokes fans check out this Tim Erixon goal from over in Sweden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pmj23CxvOo&sns=em


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Very nice . Thanks.

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07-27-2012, 01:01 PM
  #990
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Very nice . Thanks.
Really!

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07-27-2012, 01:02 PM
  #991
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^ Awesome goal!

Also, I didn't know he played for Skellefteå either. I really am out of the loop lately

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07-27-2012, 01:10 PM
  #992
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Is it just me or is the best part that the puck sticks between the netting and the pipe?

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07-27-2012, 01:30 PM
  #993
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I don't see "many" overly optimistic. I do see a lot of people wondering how good the team will be based on its acknowledged strengths and weaknesses.
In regards to Espen and his "too optimistic" spin (if you are going to call me too optimistic include the other o. :p).

I learned a few things around the age of 10.

1. Hard work can trump talent.
2. Talent can trump hard work.
3. Hard work rarely triumphs over hard work and talent, especially in a 7 game series.

Meaning, just because we are going to have to work really hard to score it doesn't mean we are necessarily going to lose. Most teams in the league aren't going to have enough talent to simply run us out of the rink.

The trump card to the season is goal tending. With just average goal tending we probably gain 20 points in the standings alone.

Simply put, we don't have enough information to declare that we are going to finish in the bottom two or three in the West. It is not preordained.

If we out work the other team, we have enough talent to win half our games or more. It's unlikely, however, we have the skill and hard work necessary to finish in the top four in the West. Unless Bob or Mason has an outstanding year. But if we get piss poor goal tending, we are probably a lottery team.

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07-27-2012, 03:13 PM
  #994
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The trump card to the season is goal tending. With just average goal tending we probably gain 20 points in the standings alone.

Simply put, we don't have enough information to declare that we are going to finish in the bottom two or three in the West. It is not preordained.

If we out work the other team, we have enough talent to win half our games or more. It's unlikely, however, we have the skill and hard work necessary to finish in the top four in the West. Unless Bob or Mason has an outstanding year. But if we get piss poor goal tending, we are probably a lottery team.
I ran some numbers on that late last season. 20 points may sound generous, but it isn't that far off. Of course, that's 20 points with the same offensive output.

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07-27-2012, 05:30 PM
  #995
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Wings fan here, coming in peace (kinda dumb that you almost need to toss that out so fans of other teams don't assume you're trashing their team).

Not to cue the CNN breaking news music, but you're saddled with a bad GM and while I'm not sure this is the best possible deal he could have gotten for Nash, I have to say that I'm a big fan of AA and especially Dubinsky. I was actually kinda hoping that Holland could buy low on Dubie after his off year last season, b/c I'd love to have his game and versatility in Detroit. I think he'll be a fan favorite pretty quickly, and while it'll be nice to see him play more now that he's in the Central, I'm not looking forward to him pasting Datsyuk and Zetterberg into the glass (and then I'd hope that Abdelkader thinks twice about going after him, b/c he should want no part of Dubie in a scrap).

I think Anisimov will be pretty good also in a more offensive role, and you know he's good defensively when a coach as demanding as Torts plays him on a shutdown line. Basically, I would have loved either of those guys to land in Detroit somehow, and I hope that they do well in Cbus- except when they play the Wings, in which case I hope they go a combined -7
Dubi will fight--but he's not really good at it--about 5 or 6 times a year. He's had some wins but he's had some losses too. He's a willing guy though. He'll get pissed if he sees something he doesn't like--whether it's himself or another teammate it doesn't matter--he will go after the guy then. The main thing about him is he'll grind and grind and keep on going--he's got a big body--not huge--but strong and he can take a big hit and still hang on to the puck and then do something with it.

i don't really think he's happy about this trade by the way but he's not going to do a Jeff Carter either. He's going to say the right things and he's going to try to get his game back to where it was. The best way he can look at this is as a challenge--to get his new team into the playoffs and if not if he's done his best he should be good trade material for Columbus to use at the deadline but truthfully if he can be a factor in getting the Bluejackets at least a serious run at a playoff spot this year then that is some kind of vindication for him.

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07-28-2012, 12:15 AM
  #996
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only been a fan of the team about five years but i have to say it sucks seeing the rangers fans with nash as their profile icon. I agree with the strategy of building a checking team and this trade helps, if dubinsky doesn't mope, but no one really knows whether howson has learned his lesson from carter.

No top line talent means no top line players want to sign here. I also don't see who here could be traded for a top line player unless there is a trade request situation like with nash. so i guess this starts an era where the goal is to draft well and wait?

I don't see why anyone is talking about conference rankings elsewhere when the team is years away from winning its first playoff game.

this would be a good time to fire howson (with the nash deal finished) and get someone who can spend to the cap without finishing 30th overall.

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07-28-2012, 12:36 AM
  #997
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only been a fan of the team about five years but i have to say it sucks seeing the rangers fans with nash as their profile icon. I agree with the strategy of building a checking team and this trade helps, if dubinsky doesn't mope, but no one really knows whether howson has learned his lesson from carter.

No top line talent means no top line players want to sign here. I also don't see who here could be traded for a top line player unless there is a trade request situation like with nash. so i guess this starts an era where the goal is to draft well and wait?

I don't see why anyone is talking about conference rankings elsewhere when the team is years away from winning its first playoff game.

this would be a good time to fire howson (with the nash deal finished) and get someone who can spend to the cap without finishing 30th overall.
I find a lot wrong with this post, but I am only going to key on a couple things.

First there are zero reasons to think Dubinsky will "mope" or pull a Carter. In fact everything points to him being very excited to be a Blue Jacket.

Right now the Jackets have the parts to put together a good package for a player such as Ryan. Not saying the Jackets are going to get Ryan, but they have the parts to make such a trade.

Last everyone might as will get off the fire Howson train. He has been allowed to remake this team and like it or not he is going to get a chance now to see if it works.

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07-28-2012, 09:28 AM
  #998
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Remember when you thought these guys would be a force to be reckoned with for the next 12 years or so?

The CBJ "core" circa 2002. Unstoppable.

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07-28-2012, 10:30 AM
  #999
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Dubi will fight--but he's not really good at it--about 5 or 6 times a year. He's had some wins but he's had some losses too.
Don't fight Luke Richardson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgquBdnVpX8

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07-28-2012, 01:04 PM
  #1000
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Not much left to say on this topic. Team/roster assessment in the wake of this deal can be routed to the Offseason or other appropriate thread. Thanks.


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