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The case for a 1-year surgical tank for the Habs

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Old
07-27-2012, 07:52 AM
  #151
PricePkPatch
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Thing is, we tanked this year. We did it. We got one potential superstar, one high quality player that should be gone mid-1st round.

Tanking is done. Let's get back to winning.

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07-27-2012, 08:06 AM
  #152
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If you begin the season wishing the Habs to lose, then you are not a fan. FULL STOP.

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07-27-2012, 08:28 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
If you begin the season wishing the Habs to lose, then you are not a fan. FULL STOP.
I'd love it if these "tankers" would walk up to Bergivin and propose their ideas.

As a GM he'd probably laugh in your face.
As a former play he'd hopefully put you through the boards.


NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

What could happen is that if we are out of playoff contention before the trading deadline is that Bergevin trades assets for picks and possibly packages picks to move up.

Asset management, something Gainey never understood

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07-27-2012, 08:34 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Asset management, something Gainey never understood
let's stop this hateful revisionist history.

Rivet for Gorges + 1st proves he did understood it.

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07-27-2012, 08:38 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
I'd love it if these "tankers" would walk up to Bergivin and propose their ideas.

As a GM he'd probably laugh in your face.
As a former play he'd hopefully put you through the boards.


NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

What could happen is that if we are out of playoff contention before the trading deadline is that Bergevin trades assets for picks and possibly packages picks to move up.

Asset management, something Gainey never understood
Ok, here is what I tell Bergevin.

Sup Marc! You don't plan on selling young players and picks for veterans, right? Good, I knew you wouldn't go for such a bad strategy. So you are going with the current roster? Good. Hang on to those picks, they will be valuable. Of course I don't have to remind you, you know this!

And thus, the tank was agreed upon.

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Old
07-27-2012, 08:43 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Ok, here is what I tell Bergevin.

Sup Marc! You don't plan on selling young players and picks for veterans, right? Good, I knew you wouldn't go for such a bad strategy. So you are going with the current roster? Good. Hang on to those picks, they will be valuable. Of course I don't have to remind you, you know this!

And thus, the tank was agreed upon.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question.

Let say we do or don't sign Doan. Let's say we are in 6th-7th place comes march/February.

How about then? Should We do our best to try to become a contender and acquire a powerful veteran?

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07-27-2012, 08:49 AM
  #157
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People underestimate the damage that losing does to your franchise. In a market like Montreal, people want to play there when you win(see TML and NY Yankees in the same boat) but stay away when you lose because it becomes a fishbowl. that makes it hard to get quality UFA's(on top of the tax issue). Also you risk developing a group of young players taht accept losing as reality. Winning breeds winning and losing breeds losing, that's why it's hard for Edmonton CBJ and others to reverse the losing trend even after adding boatloads of young talent through the draft.

Next year if we go back to being a solid team and a playoff team, everybody will see this a blip on the radar, if you have another crap year then the players quickly get used to losing and it becomes more about personal stats and contract versus team success.

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07-27-2012, 08:51 AM
  #158
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Habs need to make the playoffs EVERY YEAR! If they dont, its considered a failure in my book. I never want to see my team tank for any reason. Were not the Oliers here, the team and fans have pride.
Can you imagine the Montreal Canadiens name associated to the word ''tank''? Jesus, ive seen it all...

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07-27-2012, 09:01 AM
  #159
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We were a bubble team during Martin's tenure. We nosedived under RC. To the point where up until then, no one gave us a chance in hell at drafting one of the top 2 at the time (Grigorenko and Yakupov in that order)

Since it was pretty obvious that the coaching change was the main factor in our epic fail, why is it so hard to expect a different outcome (who knows, even a positive one), with a new coaching staff (like Carolina and St-Louis) and front office?

The way some people latch on to the latter part of the season like it was mother's milk to illustrate the true identity of the team, really makes me wonder if they were in a coma during the months prior

So it really boils down to the people who still believe in the team vs. the ones who don't. And you can't argue with beliefs...

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07-27-2012, 09:09 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
We were a bubble team during Martin's tenure. We nosedived under RC. To the point where up until then, no one gave us a chance in hell at drafting one of the top 2 at the time (Grigorenko and Yakupov in that order)

Since it was pretty obvious that the coaching change was the main factor in our epic fail, why is it so hard to expect a different outcome (who knows, even a positive one), with a new coaching staff (like Carolina and St-Louis) and front office?

The way some people latch on to the latter part of the season like it was mother's milk to illustrate the true identity of the team, really makes me wonder if they were in a coma during the months prior

So it really boils down to the people who still believe in the team vs. the ones who don't. And you can't argue with beliefs...
You make a great point. Even with a crappy start and a ton of injuries on defense, we were like 3 points out of 6th or 7th in early December before JM got canned.

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07-27-2012, 09:13 AM
  #161
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And how does one do this? Bergevin walks into a training camp meeting and asks the players to basically take the year off and not worry about winning since management wants a high pick in the next draft?

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07-27-2012, 09:14 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
People underestimate the damage that losing does to your franchise. In a market like Montreal, people want to play there when you win(see TML and NY Yankees in the same boat) but stay away when you lose because it becomes a fishbowl. that makes it hard to get quality UFA's(on top of the tax issue). Also you risk developing a group of young players taht accept losing as reality. Winning breeds winning and losing breeds losing, that's why it's hard for Edmonton CBJ and others to reverse the losing trend even after adding boatloads of young talent through the draft.

Next year if we go back to being a solid team and a playoff team, everybody will see this a blip on the radar, if you have another crap year then the players quickly get used to losing and it becomes more about personal stats and contract versus team success.
Did you not come back to the franchise as a fan just fine following the disappointments of 1999-2004?

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07-27-2012, 09:17 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You make a great point. Even with a crappy start and a ton of injuries on defense, we were like 3 points out of 6th or 7th in early December before JM got canned.
Jacques Martin was a very good coach. He took a very poor team and made it 8th and 6th in two seasons. However, this is not the same team. We've lost Hamrlik, Wisniewski, Halpern from the early parts when Martin took us to 6th place. We lost Cammalleri and Kostitsyn from last year's team.

This team is extremely weak. You disagree, that's fine. However, you'll have no choice but to agree when the team is struggling in December.

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07-27-2012, 09:18 AM
  #164
Paul Dipietro
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Did you not come back to the franchise as a fan just fine following the disappointments of 1999-2004?
If you want to gauge the pulse of the casual fan, you should really look beyond a poster on this board...

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07-27-2012, 09:19 AM
  #165
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
If you begin the season wishing the Habs to lose, then you are not a fan. FULL STOP.
If your dream is an 8th place finish then you are not a fan. FULL STOP.

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07-27-2012, 09:21 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
If you want to gauge the pulse of the casual fan, you should really look beyond a poster on this board...
Beyond this board the fans came back. Record ticket prices and record TV ratings.

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07-27-2012, 09:22 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
And how does one do this? Bergevin walks into a training camp meeting and asks the players to basically take the year off and not worry about winning since management wants a high pick in the next draft?
Bergevin fails to sign Semin, Parise, or Suter. Or even Doan, Sykora, etc.

He shows up to camp and tells the current roster to give 110%. They give 110%. We finish in 13th place.

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07-27-2012, 09:23 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If your dream is an 8th place finish then you are not a fan. FULL STOP.
This entire thread should be a FULL STOP... Just ridiculous!

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Old
07-27-2012, 09:25 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You make a great point. Even with a crappy start and a ton of injuries on defense, we were like 3 points out of 6th or 7th in early December before JM got canned.
Yup. With Markov back and Bouillon as depth, Kaberle already present, our D is better than last year.

Kaberle + Markov >> Spacek + Gill

Also, I do repeat my sentiment that a dedicated and energetic bottom 6 like we know have will make holding on leads much easier than last year.

Trickling ice time to less minutes for top 6 players, and probably more roughed up opposition.

Our PP will be better with Subban, Markov and Kaberle. Our PK have some of the best specialists in the league with Gorges, Plek, Moen and Prust.

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07-27-2012, 09:27 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Did you not come back to the franchise as a fan just fine following the disappointments of 1999-2004?
It has nothing to do with the fans, where do you see me mention the fans anywhere in my post?

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07-27-2012, 09:27 AM
  #171
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I think they're just going to see what happens. If we're in the hunt come deadline day, great. If not, trade the vets for some picks. We're stuck with a few bad contracts. Missed out on the UFAs that would have made a difference. We didn't need a hit-or-miss, potential new bad contract in Semin. The phone may not be ringing off the hook with trade options. What else can they do?

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Old
07-27-2012, 09:40 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Jacques Martin was a very good coach. He took a very poor team and made it 8th and 6th in two seasons. However, this is not the same team. We've lost Hamrlik, Wisniewski, Halpern from the early parts when Martin took us to 6th place. We lost Cammalleri and Kostitsyn from last year's team.

This team is extremely weak. You disagree, that's fine. However, you'll have no choice but to agree when the team is struggling in December.
Hamrlik Wisniewski and Halpern were not there in the 1st half last year.

If you want to compare to 10-11 here is who we added and lost...

Lost:
Wisniewski(7-23-30)
Cammalleri(19-28-47)
AK(20-25-45)
Pouliot(13-17-30)
Darche(12-14-26)
Halpern(11-15-26)
Spacek(1-15-16)
Hamrlik(5-26-34)
Gill(2-7-9)


Gained:
Pacioretty(at least a full year of him, he was not there at all 1st half that year and then got hurt late)
Cole(had a big impact last year)
Bourque(huge addition if he bounces back)
Eller(growing into a much bigger role)
Armstrong(grit and physical edge)
Prust(toughness and grit)
Markov(only played 7 games that, could be massive upgrade on defense)
Kaberle(see Bourque, would be huge plus if he bounces back)
Emelin(added a huge physical dimension we didn't have)
Diaz(skill and smarts)
Bouillon(grit and experience)


Next year's team will be bigger, tougher and grittier and could be as skilled or more.

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Old
07-27-2012, 09:46 AM
  #173
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I still regret not having a Semin type of player. I mean, someone skilled who can snipe it. Maybe inviting Kovy to training camp won't be such a bad idea?

I know these kinds of players have their flaw. But I also know they are necessary for a multidimensional team, because sometimes, what you need is a ******* sniper.

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Old
07-27-2012, 09:49 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I still regret not having a Semin type of player. I mean, someone skilled who can snipe it. Maybe inviting Kovy to training camp won't be such a bad idea?

I know these kinds of players have their flaw. But I also know they are necessary for a multidimensional team, because sometimes, what you need is a ******* sniper.
He combines the biggest flaws of both Semin and Doan. Inconsistency and age

So yes, it would be a bad idea

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07-27-2012, 09:53 AM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Bergevin fails to sign Semin, Parise, or Suter. Or even Doan, Sykora, etc.

He shows up to camp and tells the current roster to give 110%. They give 110%. We finish in 13th place.
I don't see how that makes them a 13th place team but sure if that's what you think.

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