HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Bobby Ryan

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-27-2012, 05:23 AM
  #151
BillDineen
Registered User
 
BillDineen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,670
vCash: 500
Probably entering the discussing late, but my two cents:

1- Ryan is a consistent 30 goal scorer. PLAYING WITH TWO OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. That has to be discounted.

2- Why would the Flyers trade a young defensemen in Meszaros as part of any trade for a forward? That is counterproductive.

3- I wouldn't trade Voracek and a 1rst alone for Ryan. If Voracek is with Hartnell and Giroux as much as Ryan is with Getzlaf and Perry this season, Voracek may get as many points and possibly more.

BillDineen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 06:40 AM
  #152
Corey Perry*
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Country: Ireland
Posts: 3,531
vCash: 500
I'm just going to throes a few things out there.

1. Bobby gets 0 1st PP time. The second PP for the last few years has been Bobby, and some garbage (An old Koivu, and Jason Blake). If he gets 1st PP time, he could possibly score 40 goals every year.

He hasn't even reached his full potential too. Nobody has reached their full potential until around 28-30, so its not out of the question for him to become a 85 pt guy. Not saying it will happen, but it could (especially with 1st PP time).

I'd say the only way Philly gets Ryan is if they give up Schenn or Couturier. Voracek is a winger, and the Ducks need a center. Meszaros also makes too much money for what he brings, and the Ducks don't have room on D for him. Giroux is too valuable, and Briere is too old, and I don't think the Ducks want Read, so it will have to be Schenn or Couturier. Neither of them have really proven themselves yet, so they aren't as valuable yet.

How about something like Ryan for Couturier+ ? I'm not exactly sure what the + should be, but the only way you get Ryan, is if you give back one of C or S as the centerpiece. Maybe the plus should be a guy like Simmonds, or a couple of firsts or decent prospects. The Ducks want depth, and a 1 for 1 trade doesn't help that. Couturier is kinda still a prospect because he hasn't done enough, so he hasn't reached Bobby's value yet for a 1 for 1 type deal.

Cheers.


Last edited by Corey Perry*: 07-27-2012 at 06:45 AM.
Corey Perry* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 06:53 AM
  #153
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Bunky View Post
How about something like Ryan for Couturier+ ? I'm not exactly sure what the + should be, but the only way you get Ryan, is if you give back one of C or S as the centerpiece. Maybe the plus should be a guy like Simmonds, or a couple of firsts or decent prospects.
Let me start off by saying that I'm not part of the "OMG there's no way you can trade any of our young forwards under any circumstances even if it's Jesus Christ on skates coming back" camp.

That said, you're suggesting that appropriate value for Bobby Ryan is one of the top 18 year old players in the game and Wayne Simmonds (28 goals at age 23) or multiple first round picks? Out of your mind.

If Murray is as insistent that there be a 2C and won't take Read as an option, there's no deal to be made. Pretty simple.

Broad Street Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 08:12 AM
  #154
Appleyard
Registered User
 
Appleyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manc/Shef/Utrecht
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 5,427
vCash: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Bunky View Post
I'm just going to throes a few things out there.

1. Bobby gets 0 1st PP time. The second PP for the last few years has been Bobby, and some garbage (An old Koivu, and Jason Blake). If he gets 1st PP time, he could possibly score 40 goals every year.

He hasn't even reached his full potential too. Nobody has reached their full potential until around 28-30, so its not out of the question for him to become a 85 pt guy. Not saying it will happen, but it could (especially with 1st PP time).

I'd say the only way Philly gets Ryan is if they give up Schenn or Couturier. Voracek is a winger, and the Ducks need a center. Meszaros also makes too much money for what he brings, and the Ducks don't have room on D for him. Giroux is too valuable, and Briere is too old, and I don't think the Ducks want Read, so it will have to be Schenn or Couturier. Neither of them have really proven themselves yet, so they aren't as valuable yet.

How about something like Ryan for Couturier+ ? I'm not exactly sure what the + should be, but the only way you get Ryan, is if you give back one of C or S as the centerpiece. Maybe the plus should be a guy like Simmonds, or a couple of firsts or decent prospects. The Ducks want depth, and a 1 for 1 trade doesn't help that. Couturier is kinda still a prospect because he hasn't done enough, so he hasn't reached Bobby's value yet for a 1 for 1 type deal.

Cheers.
Nobody reached full potential until 28-30? maybe in overall terms... but in pointscoring a players prime is about 23-26... Ryan is 25, and only got 30 assists once, and to get 85 points he would need about 45 assists, yeh, he could possibly hit 40 goals, but cannot see him hitting 45 assists.

Appleyard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 08:57 AM
  #155
feedingschennzy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 345
vCash: 500
At best Couturier goes to Anaheim straight up...

feedingschennzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 09:16 AM
  #156
SAINDON
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The First State
Country: United States
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
At best Couturier goes to Anaheim straight up...
Respectfully, I just don't think that is going to happen.

SAINDON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 09:30 AM
  #157
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,855
vCash: 500
There is no need to trade for Ryan this year. He is coming to the Flyers when he is ufa in three years in all probability. The Flyers could get he for cheap a year before that too as Anaheim will try to get at least something for him. Everybody in he league knows he wants to be a Flyer so the closer he gets to UFA status, the less likely any other team is going to trade for him. Why shell out huge assets when you can get him on the cheap in two years.

Psuhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 10:06 AM
  #158
Fresh34
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 56
vCash: 500
Couturier for Ryan?

Lmao.

Fresh34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 10:18 AM
  #159
StevensCakeBakerBacker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country:
Posts: 1,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
At best Couturier goes to Anaheim straight up...
Couts was not moving for Weber, but you think Homer would move him for Ryan?

StevensCakeBakerBacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 10:38 AM
  #160
SnS
Mod Supervisor
 
SnS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 11,807
vCash: 50
Quick reminder, hockey ******** isn't a verified source on HF. Avoid from posting him into the thread.

__________________
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/nemesis15/SnS-Sig.gif

Props to Nemesis for the signature and avatar.
SnS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 10:44 AM
  #161
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Quick reminder, hockey ******** isn't a verified source on HF. Avoid from posting him into the thread.
Now how am I going to verify that I had the trade info first if my post got deleted! Geez you guys are killing my attempts at becoming the Flyers insider.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 10:57 AM
  #162
feedingschennzy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh34 View Post
Couturier for Ryan?

Lmao.
Just to clarify I wouldn't ever do it. I'm just marveling at the ducks demand of couturier +

feedingschennzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 12:46 PM
  #163
JabbaJabba
Registered User
 
JabbaJabba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,940
vCash: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
There is no need to trade for Ryan this year. He is coming to the Flyers when he is ufa in three years in all probability. The Flyers could get he for cheap a year before that too as Anaheim will try to get at least something for him. Everybody in he league knows he wants to be a Flyer so the closer he gets to UFA status, the less likely any other team is going to trade for him. Why shell out huge assets when you can get him on the cheap in two years.
When has he ever said he wants to be a Flyer?

JabbaJabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 12:57 PM
  #164
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
When has he ever said he wants to be a Flyer?
forever.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 01:10 PM
  #165
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
That's just wrong. You somehow managed to reach the conclusion that Ryan and Voracek are roughly the same value (or pretty close) and based everything else on top of that. It's like building a skyscraper on muddy riverbottom and wondering why things keep falling off on the top.
Actually...their intrinsic value is very close.

You can sit there and squeeze points here or not quote me on points there. The fact remains the same.

On the ice, there is only realistically a slight offensive upside to acquiring Ryan over Voracek. Contracts, age, and defensive play all favor Voracek.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 01:33 PM
  #166
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,937
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Now how am I going to verify that I had the trade info first if my post got deleted! Geez you guys are killing my attempts at becoming the Flyers insider.
you can always hit up Eklund for a job.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 01:47 PM
  #167
Robbieb7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 14
vCash: 500
READ+2013 1st+ Laughton+ Meszaros is the offer, I still think we need another solid D-Man, and we are giving up one of our best in this trade.

Robbieb7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 01:56 PM
  #168
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbieb7 View Post
READ+2013 1st+ Laughton+ Meszaros is the offer, I still think we need another solid D-Man, and we are giving up one of our best in this trade.
We definitely would need another d-men.

Coburn-Grossman
Timonen-Schenn
Gus-Gervais
Lilja

That 3rd pairing looks terrible

FLYERSFAN18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 01:57 PM
  #169
Gibsons Finest
Beast
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon/Brandon
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Actually...their intrinsic value is very close.

You can sit there and squeeze points here or not quote me on points there. The fact remains the same.

On the ice, there is only realistically a slight offensive upside to acquiring Ryan over Voracek. Contracts, age, and defensive play all favor Voracek.
And you have completely failed to show that. According to your theory, Ryan has already reached his offensive potential and will never improve upon it, yet Voracek still has a 10 point improvement to go. In reality, Ryan had a down year this year, tying his career low, and still had better production than Voracek during his best year. Not to mention the myth that Voracek is so much better defensively than Ryan. Ryan actually PKs more(I think it's slight, but whatever) and he isn't a defensive slouch. You people should watch him more.

Voracek is two years younger and makes a million less. In any debate vs. Ryan, those two marginal differences are all he has going for him.

Gibsons Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 02:07 PM
  #170
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
And you have completely failed to show that. According to your theory, Ryan has already reached his offensive potential and will never improve upon it, yet Voracek still has a 10 point improvement to go.
Ryan won't. He's already hit the forward peak. It will probably last until he's 27, 28, or 29. Then it will diminish.

Voracek is only 22. Plus he'll be on the top line and actually play wing on the PP instead of the point. He'll get Jagr's old minutes with Giroux. It'll help his point totals. There's pretty much no doubt about that. Plus he's just entering that 22-27 range where forwards generally peak offensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
In reality, Ryan had a down year this year, tying his career low, and still had better production than Voracek during his best year. Not to mention the myth that Voracek is so much better defensively than Ryan. Ryan actually PKs more(I think it's slight, but whatever) and he isn't a defensive slouch. You people should watch him more.
I know how good Ryan is defensively. I also know how good Voracek is defensively.

Voracek is extremely consistent. When he's not scoring he's still visible all over the ice. Complete opposite of guys like vanRiemsdyk, and I can say that being one of JVR's biggest supporters.

Voracek is the real deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Voracek is two years younger and makes a million less. In any debate vs. Ryan, those two marginal differences are all he has going for him.
Three years younger. Cheaper. As good if not better defensively. Almost as good offensively.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 02:12 PM
  #171
YuioIklo
Registered User
 
YuioIklo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quebec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,419
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbieb7 View Post
READ+2013 1st+ Laughton+ Meszaros is the offer, I still think we need another solid D-Man, and we are giving up one of our best in this trade.
It's not true. The guy who reported that has been saying crap on twitter since June.

YuioIklo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 02:15 PM
  #172
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 37,269
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbieb7 View Post
READ+2013 1st+ Laughton+ Meszaros is the offer, I still think we need another solid D-Man, and we are giving up one of our best in this trade.
No, that's from a fraud. It's likely invented.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 03:15 PM
  #173
healthyscratch
Registered User
 
healthyscratch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
No, that's from a fraud. It's likely invented.
He actually has been hitting a lot of stuff the last two weeks, weber included. I know I know, I'm not defending, I'm just sayin'.

healthyscratch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 03:21 PM
  #174
SAINDON
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The First State
Country: United States
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbieb7 View Post
READ+2013 1st+ Laughton+ Meszaros is the offer, I still think we need another solid D-Man, and we are giving up one of our best in this trade.
If thats what we give up to get 1 player (Ryan), then Mr. Snider needs to fire Homer and do whatever it takes to get Sather as our GM.

That price is way too steep. Also, if we do give this up for Ryan he better score 45.

SAINDON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 03:26 PM
  #175
rban*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,894
vCash: 500
If we can trade Read and Meszaros and a first for Ryan this yr, go make a big offer and get Getzlaf or Perry next yr, and keep Schenn and Couts, then after next summer our offense could have almost all of Ducks' first line as our second line:

1st line Harts-Giroux-Voracek
2nd line Ryan-Perry-?
3rd line Schenn-Couts-?

? could be Simmonds or Talbot

rban* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.