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Free Agent Talk (Part XIV): Semin to Carolina; Doan still thinking

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Old
07-27-2012, 12:56 PM
  #76
bigblue21
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Boyle has a role on this team, I just don't think he should be playing 16 mins a night up the middle when he doesnt create plays, is marginal on d-zone faceoffs and turns the puck over.

From a 3rd line center standpoint, I dont care about stats as much as I care about creating plays for your wingers, winning key defensive zone faceoffs more times than not, and not turning the puck over.

Boyle is great at using his body, blocking shots and getting a quick shot off. The problem is that offensively, he's rarely doing much of anything on the ice.

A 3rd line center should be able to do a bit of both on a consistent basis. Boyle didnt for almost a full season.
Yes, Boyle is never going to be a creative player. He is, however, quite good at cycling the puck and keeping it down low. There were many, many games last year where our 3rd line did a very good job of having extended shifts where they cycled the puck and wore the other team down.

Oh, and for what it's worth, Boyle had 7 more goals and 1 more point than Dominic Moore, a guy some people (not saying you) were advocating going after.

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07-27-2012, 12:59 PM
  #77
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There are no real lines. Look at the ice times and you can figure out who the coaching staff trust more.
For some people it's all about how much offense a player produces on the stat sheet. The most important stat though is the standings--the wins and the losses.

I'm fine if people say Boyle is a 3rd liner or a 4th liner. I don't really care. He gets his ice time and mostly it's earned.

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Old
07-27-2012, 01:01 PM
  #78
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I'm fine if people say Boyle is a 3rd liner or a 4th liner. I don't really care. He gets his ice time and mostly it's earned.
True, but with the departure of Artie and Dubi and the addition of Halpern, it's safe to say we are now less deep down the middle. I'd be more comfortable if they brought in another 3rd line center at some point. Perhaps Miller can be that guy...problem solved.

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07-27-2012, 01:03 PM
  #79
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To me, keeping a defense hemmed in their zone in the 1st or 2nd period for a long cycle that results in a turnover, bad-angle shot or an odd-man rush the other way is like fouling off 8 or 9 pitches in the 1st or 2nd inning against a pitcher and then striking out.

Whether it was Torts' strategy or not, you can't deny that any line Boyle centered usually found itself trapped for long portions in the 3rd period. The only salvation was a unified dedication to shot blocking.

Boyle is a warrior and he's grown on me (a little), but the Rangers would be a dangerous team moving forward if he saw less ice time or had his role reduced in favor of a guy who was more of a natural center in the classic definition of the position.

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07-27-2012, 01:04 PM
  #80
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I get the feeling that there is a reality distortion field surrounding Boyle.

The Boyle critique: can't make plays, maintain possession, bad on face offs, does not score, etc., ect..

The facts are these: The Rangers played a defense first system all of last year. Boyle has Torts trust within that system. The Rangers finished 1st in the east.

I agree that the jury is still out some what on Boyle being a legit 3rd line center. He does do some things well. I have enough faith in Torts and I can see the games and our record with my own eyes.

If Boyle were not competent to a degree satisfactory to Torts, he would be gone. Simple as that.

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07-27-2012, 01:04 PM
  #81
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Prust was a turnover machine. Maybe playing with two new linemates will invigorate Boyle.

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07-27-2012, 01:05 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
How many times did we see Brian Boyle turnover the puck on the cycle in the offensive zone(many of them unforced)? Get knocked on his butt by a defender retrieving the puck along the half wall?
Not too often on either count. Who are these defensemen who are apparently manhandling Brian Boyle?

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How many times did we see him try to establish a forecheck, but was either late to engaging the puck carrier, or completely missed his check?
Boyle is a center. He shouldn't be the first guy in on the forecheck. Do you remember the Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko line? People used to complain that they forechecked and cycled too much.

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How many times did we see a guy who, because he can't pivot very well, be forced to take medicore shots despite the fact he would have positioning in prime scoring areas?
Is he guilty of taking weak shots? Sure. That being said, there aren't many third line centers in the league who I'd call snipers.

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07-27-2012, 01:06 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You and your pesky statistics.

Dont you know this guy saw Brian Boyle not be able to keep the puck in the offensive zone? Isnt that enough for you?
I always forget that feelings always trump evidence.

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07-27-2012, 01:07 PM
  #84
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The problem wasn't that they cycled too much, it's that their cycles never went anywhere. Their lack of ability offensively prevented them from ever penetrating off the boards. Their cycles wasted time, but they rarely created high quality scoring chances.

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07-27-2012, 01:09 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I always forget that feelings always trump evidence.
Ok there Billy Bean, all that static proves is that Stoll and Boyle were deployed for different roles.

Stoll still had the puck in the offensive zone at more than a 10 percent clip.

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07-27-2012, 01:13 PM
  #86
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jeese... How about We Need an All Star at All Positions!!!
Leave Boyle alone... Our 3C has not been a problem, our top6 were last season as primary scoring was subpar. Halpern is a good stop gap for 3C.
This team looks good on paper, no need to continue shopping.

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07-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Yeah I watched 82 regular season games and attended multiple road and home playoff games... how about you?

Please tell me who else played 3rd line center because you must be thinking of the 2010-11 season where Boyle played some wing as HE DID NOT play 4th line center all year. The only time Boyle did not play 3rd line center was when he was injured vs the Sens.

Dubinsky played wing the entire year, and some 4th line center when he was struggling except during the Senator series
Anisimov played with Stepan and Gaborik, then was demoted to 4th line before returning to the top 6

Who played 3rd line center?

The stupidity on this board can be overwhelming at times, Boyle was the 3rd line center the entire season. Torts and Sather made it very clear who they want to be the 3rd line center as they traded Dubinsky and Anisimov, the only 2 players who could possibly fill that role.

Think before you post
Season tickets for 20 years. I didn't say Boyle didn't play 3rd line center. I said he didn't play it ALL year which he didn't. And I agree your stupidity is overwhelming. Torts and Sather made nothing clear when trading Dubi and Ani. If we enter camp with no more changes and none of the kids can handle the 3rd line center role then and only then will it be clear that we are going with the offensively retarded Brian Boyle at 3rd line center. And that IMHO will be a huge mistake for a team with Cup aspirations.

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07-27-2012, 01:17 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So you want a cookie cutter approach down the middle? Every centerman needs to have above par offensive abilities and needs to distribute the puck (like the 2 guys we already have, Richards and Stepan).

You do realize that Boyle spent a good majority of last season in a checking role against other team's top forward lines, right? There are certain roles that need to be filled on a team. If you're looking for Brian Boyle to be a constant offensive threat, than you're completely missing that point.
I want him to check from the 4th line. He will get too much ice time if he centers the 3rd line. And I disagree if a player is in the center slot he should have some ability to distribute the puck. Not asking much here. If he gets 7 - 8 ES minutes then he can stink at passing the puck and become a human shot blocker. But I think Torts intends to use him more than that and to that I object.

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07-27-2012, 01:19 PM
  #89
NYR Viper
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Whether people like it or now, Brian Boyle was last years 3rd line center. He is solid in his own zone and he is difficult to play against. He plays 10-12 minutes a night most of the time.

All I was asking for was a player to play 3/4C who could provide a little bit more offense while lacking a little bit more on the defensive side. Halpern, while good on face-offs, is not that player.

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07-27-2012, 01:19 PM
  #90
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Whether people like it or now, Brian Boyle was last years 3rd line center. He is solid in his own zone and he is difficult to play against. He plays 10-12 minutes a night most of the time.

All I was asking for was a player to play 3/4C who could provide a little bit more offense while lacking a little bit more on the defensive side. Halpern, while good on face-offs, is not that player.

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07-27-2012, 01:19 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Oh the old assist totals comment about Brian Boyle

Lets look at his "scoring wingers"
Prust
Fedotenko
Mitchell
Dubinsky
total of 29 goals for all 4 of them, what are you expecting?

When you can grasp the concept that Torts plays 3 lines, 2 of them provide offense, the 3rd line does the heavy lifting defensively and is not expected to score then we can have a discussion.
He has 33 assists in 271 NHL games as a center. If you and I were on his wings he should rack up more than that on rebound goals alone. Stop protecting this guy. He's ok as a 4th line player. More responsibility he cannot handle if we are to contend. And those guys have so few goals largely because their center (BB) is an offensive retard.

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07-27-2012, 01:21 PM
  #92
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I know it sounds a bit silly to say, considering all the playing time he's gotten in the last couple seasons, but take it easy on Boyler...he's still coming into his own. Big guys take longer to come along, and despite his breakout season, he's still putting things together for himself. I'm not saying he's going to have another 20+ goal season, but I think 12-15 goals is not out of the question at all. I think we could see a 30-35 point season out of him, which is pretty reasonable for a 3rd line center who's good defensively, plays the PK, and some PP.

I understand that he's not an ideal 3rd line center to some, but he's certainly got a lot of tools at his disposal and is still developing as a player. He broke out two seasons ago, cooled off a bit but came along late last season, and now...let's see what happens this season before we start throwing him on the 4th line with limited minutes.

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07-27-2012, 01:21 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I believe that we are the only two who share the same opinion on Boyle. He is fine as a 4th line player getting 8-10 minutes a night/pk specialist.

But if we want to win a Stanley Cup, he simply cannot be our third line center.
I admire everyone's love for him. I am glad he's a Ranger. But he needs to be used properly for our lineup to work. Why is that so offensive?

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07-27-2012, 01:23 PM
  #94
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I admire everyone's love for him. I am glad he's a Ranger. But he needs to be used properly for our lineup to work. Why is that so offensive?
Because he is a great character guy, works really hard(despite not having much talent), and looks funny in an elf costume.

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07-27-2012, 01:25 PM
  #95
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I admire everyone's love for him. I am glad he's a Ranger. But he needs to be used properly for our lineup to work. Why is that so offensive?
I'm up for an upgrade at any position. I haven't heard an acceptable one mentioned.

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07-27-2012, 01:26 PM
  #96
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jeese... How about We Need an All Star at All Positions!!!
Leave Boyle alone... Our 3C has not been a problem, our top6 were last season as primary scoring was subpar. Halpern is a good stop gap for 3C.
This team looks good on paper, no need to continue shopping.
We lost 2 guys who can play center, both being better than the center we added. So while the sky is not falling, we have less talent and less depth at the position now than we did a month ago. There's nothing wrong with looking to improve the roster.

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07-27-2012, 01:26 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Jarrett Stoll was LA's 3rd line center. 6 goals last season.

Care to try again?
Reading comprehension problem? He said WE cannot win with him as our 3rd line center. Not NOONE can win with him... Are you really comparing Jarrett Stoll to Brian Boyle as hockey players? Any comprehension beyond stats?

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07-27-2012, 01:28 PM
  #98
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Boyle averaged 15 minutes of ice time per game last year. He was definitely our 3rd line center. This year with the acquistion of Nash we will have a more defined top 2 lines when Gaborik is healthy and him and Nash are separated. I think that will create a better environment to Boyle excel in a "checking line" role.

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07-27-2012, 01:29 PM
  #99
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Reading comprehension problem? He said WE cannot win with him as our 3rd line center. Not NOONE can win with him... Are you really comparing Jarrett Stoll to Brian Boyle as hockey players? Any comprehension beyond stats?
Or the fact that Boyle is better defensively, more physical and outscored Stoll. The only thing Stoll has on Boyle at this point is a shot.

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07-27-2012, 01:29 PM
  #100
Thirty One
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Reading comprehension problem? He said WE cannot win with him as our 3rd line center. Not NOONE can win with him... Are you really comparing Jarrett Stoll to Brian Boyle as hockey players? Any comprehension beyond stats?
So what is it about the New York Rangers that gives them the unique quality of not being able to win a Stanley Cup with Brian Boyle as their 3rd line center.

I can't wait to hear this.

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