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The case for a 1-year surgical tank for the Habs

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Old
07-27-2012, 12:40 PM
  #201
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by jagielski41 View Post
Oh my ******* god! another "tanking" thread!

for the gazillionth time, its never going to happen! if you're an nhl player, you want to compete, win, make the playoffs and go for the ultimate prize. If you're the management, you want to put a winning team possible out there. besides, its all about the paying fans. you dont wanna waste their money.

imo, you're not a real fan if you want to see your team lose and waste another year just so the team could end up with a better pick. hey, its all about development. maybe try focusing on that.
Is that Galchenyuk in your avatar?

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07-27-2012, 12:45 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I've read it. But it doesn't make sense. Every team looses players through injuries, but when star players go down, it's hard to replace that. Markov is a better point producer than Chara. How is it not an anomality that last year we lost our best player ? It would be an anomality for Boston too.
I think it's an anomaly that we lost Markov, but it's not an anomaly that we lost someone good.

Injuries to any of the following would be devastating next year:
Price, Markov, Subban, Gorges, Plekanec, Cole, Pacioretty.
That's my list. Maybe your list is a little different.

Injuries to any one of those would be an anomaly. Let's say for any one of those you only expect a 15% (rough estimate) chance of major injury. That means you don't expect any specific player to be injured, they each have an 85% chance of playing 70+ games (which I think is generous).

However,

There's 7 of them, so you actually expect to be missing one of those players.

I'm not sure what the true probabilities are. But I know that year in and year out, we are typically missing between 1 and 3 of our best players. It's part of the game. The anomaly is not when you have injuries. The anomaly is when you have no injuries.

*************

In the case of Boston, they are a goon team. I predict if they lose Chara their whole system collapses.

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07-27-2012, 12:45 PM
  #203
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I think the Habs are in fairly good shape entering the season and I don't rule out having one of more rookies make it even better. Bergevin has done nothing dramatic except at the management and coaching levels and I don't expect him to. He hasn't signed any expensive free agents (Prust, a good pickup judging from his performance as a Ranger, and Armstrong, are easily affordable). He hasn't traded veterans for draft picks. He has satisfied the tankards by not going shopping crazy. On the other hand, he hasn't gotten rid of Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque, or Gionta, much less Markov or Plekanec. He signed Price to a pretty expensive contract, but that's what rational people expected him to do. So what do the tankards want to entertain their fantasies? Be specific, children! There are contracts and dollars involved.

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07-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #204
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But DA the other teams will also experience the same odds ! A number 1 D man is the hardest commodity to find. An injury to Pacioretty would hurt the team a lot less than an injury to Markov.

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07-27-2012, 12:51 PM
  #205
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Doesnt matter what you or any other bandwagon fan thinks. Thank goodness Molson and the new management team are ALL for winning it all....

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07-27-2012, 12:54 PM
  #206
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Maybe inviting Kovy to training camp won't be such a bad idea?
Jon Mirasty scored more goals than Kovy in the past KHL season.

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07-27-2012, 12:54 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think it's an anomaly that we lost Markov, but it's not an anomaly that we lost someone good.

Injuries to any of the following would be devastating next year:
Price, Markov, Subban, Gorges, Plekanec, Cole, Pacioretty.
That's my list. Maybe your list is a little different.

Injuries to any one of those would be an anomaly. Let's say for any one of those you only expect a 15% (rough estimate) chance of major injury. That means you don't expect any specific player to be injured, they each have an 85% chance of playing 70+ games (which I think is generous).

However,

There's 7 of them, so you actually expect to be missing one of those players.

I'm not sure what the true probabilities are. But I know that year in and year out, we are typically missing between 1 and 3 of our best players. It's part of the game. The anomaly is not when you have injuries. The anomaly is when you have no injuries.

*************

In the case of Boston, they are a goon team. I predict if they lose Chara their whole system collapses.
Considering that they explicitly voiced their concern about player injuries (during Therrien's PC he speculated that it could be due to inadequate training), let's hope that they take steps to reverse that trend

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07-27-2012, 12:59 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
But DA the other teams will also experience the same odds ! A number 1 D man is the hardest commodity to find. An injury to Pacioretty would hurt the team a lot less than an injury to Markov.
Well,

The Habs seem to be an elite injury team year in and year out. The odds don't seem to be the same. I admit that I'm not sure what the problem is. I've seen all sorts of exotic theories. I've read that the ice in the Bell Center is of lower quality. Some people say we need an enforcer. I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
So what do the tankards want to entertain their fantasies? Be specific, children! There are contracts and dollars involved.
As a pro-tank poster I am 100% satisfied with Bergevin thus far. I give him an A+.

In my OP, I said that Gomez, Bourque, etc should be given privileged minutes to pad their stats, so that we can raise their value at the deadline.

Gionta should be traded if a good offer comes in near the deadline. I think he's worth a late 1st rounder.

Moving forward, we have Galchenyuk, Eller, Plekanec, Dehsarnais down the middle. One of the last two will eventually be traded. It's not obvious who should be traded in my opinion, there have been several threads debating the issue.

As for Price, my plans calls for him to lift the cup over his head during the 2014-2020 victory window.

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07-27-2012, 01:00 PM
  #209
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Doesnt matter what you or any other bandwagon fan thinks. Thank goodness Molson and the new management team are ALL for winning it all....
Exactly. It is great to have an owner and a GM who built a strong management team that understands the value of drafting and developing players instead of going on panic mode and signing UFAs to ridicoulous contracts.

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07-27-2012, 01:02 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Is that Galchenyuk in your avatar?
you dont know him?

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07-27-2012, 01:03 PM
  #211
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The odds are the same now. We added toughness, grit and size, if you're a fan of that theory.

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07-27-2012, 01:06 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
The odds are the same now. We added toughness, grit and size, if you're a fan of that theory.
I don't know what is the reason for the Habs to be an elite injury team year in and year out. Fans who have more hands-on experience with hockey should consider starting a thread to debate the issue in detail.

It may in fact be the greatest challenge for the Habs in terms of building a contender. We will never be a contender as long as we are an elite injury team.

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07-27-2012, 01:07 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by jagielski41 View Post
you dont know him?
I think he means that the only reason we got the player from your avatar is because we finished so low in the standings...

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07-27-2012, 01:08 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by jagielski41 View Post
you dont know him?
Why would you put Galchenyuk in your avatar if you hate tanking?

We traded Cammalleri, Kostitsym, Gill for picks and prospects and for the first time in years didn't get help at the deadline. We sucked for Galchenyuk.

If Gauthier had been more of a warrior we could have made it to the first round. We could have drafted Tomas Hertl.

Would Tomas Hertl be in your avatar?

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07-27-2012, 01:14 PM
  #215
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I think you're extrapolating. We will not be an elite injury team next year. I doubt it.

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07-27-2012, 01:16 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Why would you put Galchenyuk in your avatar if you hate tanking?

We traded Cammalleri, Kostitsym, Gill for picks and prospects and for the first time in years didn't get help at the deadline. We sucked for Galchenyuk.

If Gauthier had been more of a warrior we could have made it to the first round. We could have drafted Tomas Hertl.

Would Tomas Hertl be in your avatar?
Except we didn't made the decision to suck back in July. We though we would have a genuinely good year.

Only late in the season did PG gave up. And that's the only time you should start considering it.

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07-27-2012, 01:16 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I think you're extrapolating. We will not be an elite injury team next year. I doubt it.
As much as I love to disagree with DAC in this thread, I can't help but feel the same way

You'd almost think the team was cursed

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07-27-2012, 01:21 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Why would you put Galchenyuk in your avatar if you hate tanking?

We traded Cammalleri, Kostitsym, Gill for picks and prospects and for the first time in years didn't get help at the deadline. We sucked for Galchenyuk.

If Gauthier had been more of a warrior we could have made it to the first round. We could have drafted Tomas Hertl.

Would Tomas Hertl be in your avatar?
lol good one.

did you really think at the beginning of last year's season, that the team would wanna end up 15th place? it just happened. unlike you, i had a winning mentality last year but the team sucked.

also, we only "tanked" last year when there was no hope of making the playoffs. around feb-march.

i only have gally in my avatar because after all the crap we went through last year was at least awarded with a great player. but it doesnt mean i want it to happen again. one year of great draft is enough for me.

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07-27-2012, 01:26 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
I think he means that the only reason we got the player from your avatar is because we finished so low in the standings...
yeah i know what you mean, its just stupid to ask who it is.

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07-27-2012, 01:32 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by jagielski41 View Post
yeah i know what you mean, its just stupid to ask who it is.
No, it's a rhetorical question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagielski41
unlike you, i had a winning mentality last year but the team sucked.
If you're satisfied with competing for 8th place then you have the mentality of a loser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagielski41
also, we only "tanked" last year when there was no hope of making the playoffs. around feb-march.
There's no denying Bergevin's lack of activity on the trade market.

If the team wanted Semin we would have had Semin. Ergo, the team didn't want a more powerful offense. It didn't want additional 20-30 goals. Why not?

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07-27-2012, 01:32 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
As much as I love to disagree with DAC in this thread, I can't help but feel the same way

You'd almost think the team was cursed
We have better odds of having an injury free year with all the bad luck we had.

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07-27-2012, 01:33 PM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Why would you put Galchenyuk in your avatar if you hate tanking?

We traded Cammalleri, Kostitsym, Gill for picks and prospects and for the first time in years didn't get help at the deadline. We sucked for Galchenyuk.

If Gauthier had been more of a warrior we could have made it to the first round. We could have drafted Tomas Hertl.

Would Tomas Hertl be in your avatar?
What are you even talking about ? It seems to me you just posted this crap to get a reaction. Its as if there arent already 1000 threads about this ****.

Sometimes i'm embarassed to even be a Habs fan.

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07-27-2012, 01:40 PM
  #223
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If you're satisfied with competing for 8th place then you have the mentality of a loser.
Seems the me the man arguing for us to lose before we even started to be the true loser.

Look, you didn't convinced us. Can you drop the personal attacks?!

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07-27-2012, 01:42 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
We have better odds of having an injury free year with all the bad luck we had.
I'd agree if I thought it was a matter of probability and we had a string of bad luck.

But I don't. The Habs should seriously consult a voodoo priest

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07-27-2012, 01:47 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagielski41 View Post
unlike you, i had a winning mentality last year but the team sucked.
--->
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Can you drop the personal attacks?!
PricePkPatch, I'm being respectful to anybody who's respectful. See posts #212, 208, 197, 188, 186, etc.


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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Seems the me the man arguing for us to lose
I'm not asking anybody to lose. I hope this team gives 100% throughout the season.

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