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07-23-2012, 11:02 AM
  #51
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There's a differenc between hyping/being excited and overhyping.

Is the organization excited about Saad and to see what he can do at the NHL level after a great year in juniors? Yes.

Are they haning him the keys to the city? No.

People getting bent out of shape about people being excited about what Saad can do at the NHL are just morons.

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07-23-2012, 11:56 AM
  #52
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I do not think they are over-hyping SAAD ...Remember --before the 2011 draft I wasscreaming to AVOID drafting SAAD-I said he was horrible in the 2nd half--BUT I did not realize the lingering effects of the groin injury he suffered earlier were causing him not to go all out like he COULD ...the point is Central Scouting had him at #8 overall at mid-season -to "fall " to #43 proved that mnot just me, but all the NHL GM"s who passed on him INCLUDING STAN (till#43) were like me FOOLED into thinking he had some attitude/consistency problem when in fact poor play was the result of physical or mental (fear of going "all out again")lingering effects of that groin injury--upto his groin injury he had got off to a good start in the first half which was why Central Scouting had him rated so high--NOW i think clubs are going to be a lot more forgiving of below-par performance from groin injuries..to a degree we saw this wth Malcolm Subban whose performance after he cam back from a mid season groin injuy also deteriorated and only STARTED to get bsck to normal (and still not there quite) during the playoffs...I think there is now a better understanding of the longer than expected time it takes to recover fully from a serious groin injury.

ANYWAY--in the season after his draft year just compare SAAD to what the now highly prized (in trade talks) frenzy some clubs have for Bobby Ryan...YES Ryan has proved himself in the NHL to be an effective 26-37 goal a year guy and 60-70 pts guy ...why cannot SAAD also be that too?


COMPARE SAAD to Ryan in the year subsequent to their draft in the OHL:

RYAN (Owen Sound ,OHL 2005/06 season): 59GP 31g 64a 95pts 44PIM's -4
2006 playoffs : 11GP 5g 7a 12pts 14PIM's -1

SAAD(Saginaw,OHL 2011/12 season): 44GP 34g 42a 76pts 38PIM's +35
2012 playoffs : 12GP 8g 9a 17pts 4PIM's +3


While there never is any guarantee,on what basis can JJ or anyone else conclude that SAAD cannot at least translate his jr. success to the degree Ryan has?
MAYBE he will be even better!?

Point is both were very effective junior stars for their teams -and to say that SAAD won't make it just becaue he s a Blackhawks draftee is crazy ..Or that you can;t compare the chances of a mere 2nd rounder to RYAN who went #2 overall -BUT i can assure you--I saw BOTH play in the seaason after they were drafted--and i saw nothing to indicate SAAD was so far from Ryan's "star performance/dominance level
or what ever you wish to call that level of "difference-maker" that anyone looking objectively could state that SAAD will never do as well as Ryamnat the NHL level..

I sincerely doubt JJ ever saw either of them play much in the year after they were drafted -so I don't know on what basis--either from observation or from stats he can categorically write SAAD off as a never willbe (It seems he is just sour on any Blackhawks prospect being a legit top six impact guy simply because we did not draft the kid in the top 5 or 10 overall..As i said it is clear ALL the NHL GM's and even myself were FOOLED by SAAD's poor 2nd half after getting back in the lineup from his groin injury in that draft year and so looking in retrospect SAAD now SHOULD be considered easily as top ten material in any 2011 draft re-do ..

I do not think SAAD is hyped at all--he's proven in juniors he can be hios team's go to guy and an effective difference-maker. He still must translate that to the NHL level -but i see no reason to write-off his chances of doing that before he gets a real chance to achieve such a Ryan-like NHL performance level (I am not saying he plays like Ryan,just comparing the stats and performance levels at the same age level..as you can see from the math SAAD is already ahead of where RYAN was ...

Of course SAAD is no "superstar" saviour ,but neither is RYAN..Ryan is however a "star" top 3 forward for his NHL team --and if SAAD is not in our top 3 forwards that speaks more to te number and depth of star forwards we have than his ability...
HE SHOULD be at least a Ryan type impact level performer... BUT one caution: RYAN gets PP time in ANH--we have so many top six candidates up front that SAAD may not get featured PP time.. In that case it is harder to get 30 goals and 60-70 pts...sTILL adding more TALENT to our top six makes it more likely we can score morein ES than last year .IF SAAD's inclusion can help team's have more difficulty trying to stop us scoring (to defend more talent is more difficult as shutdown guys cannot play every shift) then his presence can be impactful...

There is no guarantee of course..Talent/ability alone may not be enough to get the expected performance impact because there is also a mental adjustment rom Junior to NHL level ..IF SAAD can handle that,then based on the talent level comparison to Ryan,I cannot see why he cannot make some difference ...to dismiss him before he even gets the chance is unfair...

JJ compares SAAD more to JEREMY MORIN who he now has written off as a never wilbe already... MORIN has 2 issues preventing him from doing that : 1) recovering from serious concussion (nothing to do with ability) ;2) skating speed issues (not the case with SAAD who skates well );in fact Bobby Ryan has less speeed than Saad but his effectiveness comes from his power game and size (6'2 218) ----Morin at 6'1 189 could never be such a power forward,SAAD at 6'1 202 is situated in between on the size front. BUT whatever --just because MORIN has (and may never) impact at the NHl level does not mean SAAD must also fail .

In short-there is nothing to substiate that SAAD WILL FAIL to stick or make any impact with the big club.. HE could fail or he could succeed ,but the basis of making either statement cannot be known at this time...

In some cases even when they are drafted in the top ten-it is EASY tpo predict
a player will fail to impact at the NHL level...Such an easy case was with JACK SKILLE who we took #7 overall in the 2005 draft (the same draft RYAN went #2 overall) --At the time I predicted he'd bust -i could not believe we passedon Kopitar.. sometime you just KNOW.

With SAAD I cannot see (after observing him play healthy last season and dominating his league) how anyone can KNOW for sure (like JJ implies) that he will bust ... the evidence of his ABILITY says he will impact ,not bust ..but we cannot KNOW for sure if he can handle the mental pressure that also comes with jumping to the NHl level from juniors...If he can,his ability SHOULD producesome impactful results.

IF I had to bet -I'd say JJ is going to be proved wrong....of course there is one wildcard in this..Q and his dysfunctional coaching strategies might just ruin all the good habits SAAD has learned to date... I mean look at how Q has not progressed but instead has regressed Patrick Kane from the production we all expect from him...You can blame the player himself ,but I think the coach also has some respomsibility to get what we know SHOULD be superior ability to manifest that very ability to the frequency expected. Can Q and his vaunte hand-picked staff ruin another player? Stay tuned and let us find out. It would be a shame if SAAD bust because of bad coaching -but Q and his staff willbe on a last chance lease to prove they actually can get the best out of known abilities of the players we have...

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07-23-2012, 11:57 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
There's a differenc between hyping/being excited and overhyping.

Is the organization excited about Saad and to see what he can do at the NHL level after a great year in juniors? Yes.

Are they haning him the keys to the city? No.

People getting bent out of shape about people being excited about what Saad can do at the NHL are just morons.
Bent out of shape? Not at all. Just saying it as it is… and hoping like others that he does well with the Hawks. However, there has been many a fine Junior player that has failed at the NHL level, after dominating up to that point. Seems to me that you are the one getting bent out of shape by calling others morons for stating facts.

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07-23-2012, 07:44 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
There's a differenc between hyping/being excited and overhyping.

Is the organization excited about Saad and to see what he can do at the NHL level after a great year in juniors? Yes.

Are they haning him the keys to the city? No.

People getting bent out of shape about people being excited about what Saad can do at the NHL are just morons.
there are people penciling him in as our first line winger for next season. I'm hopeful that the kid will be great at the next level, but I don't think he should be rushed. A year in Rockford might help him.

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07-26-2012, 10:23 AM
  #55
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And so many NHL teams have signed the 18 year olds they just drafted as first rounders in the 2012 draft to ELC's ALREADY (no need for us with TT -he's still 17 and needs to add weight)--but many NHL clubs have signed their draftees to ELC's NOW --so this is unusual --normally you wait to they are a year after the draft at 19with a few exceptions (maybe picks in the top 30--but this draft it seems more clubs than ever are signing draftees to ELC's from the geto..this implies they are going to give the kids a chance to take a roster spot-many will not prove quite ready and be sent back--BUT SAAD (our 2011 draftee) is WILL BE 20 years old this October 27th --and so there is logically less "rushing" him,less maturity issues, and no needs to increase size issues with him --so I do not get the "kid gloves/of course he can;t be ready attitude" of some skeptic fans/bloggers/posters --when lots of other clubs appear to be counting on their draftees to put up good challenges for roster spots ....there is no LAW saying if you are a Blackhawks prospect it will take you 3-4 years after a draft before we even consider you for a spot (the DETROIT model so lavishly praised by Pierre McGuire but apparently toileted by so many teams)...

In trying to explain why there have been so many ELC's of just drafted kids this year
--a much bigger number than usual --and when the conensus was this was a supposedly "weak draft" it seems to me that with such a limited quality ufa market this year the especially non-playoff teams appear more desperate to add any talent infusion they can --so they will give the kid they drafted in round one an earlier shot to compete than they might have in the past ...

Now many of these 18 year olds will likely not be ready and be sent back anyway -but it helps the clubs create some excitement in their fan bases...

HOWEVER --as i said--SAAD is nearly 20 or already be 20 when a lock-out shortened start resumes (maybe by Mid-Nov or December)--so this is entirely different than with 18 year olds ...He will get his chance to take a spot -but probably needs to secure a top six spot up front to be kept on the team
..means he must beat out STALBERG or CARCILLO for that spot OR take it playing 2nd line CENTRE not wing ...Carcillo could play on the 4th line -or Stalberg could be moved back to 4th line if SAAD bumps one of them at wing...


SO we have this:

A) NO SAAD

SHARP TOEWS STALBERG
CARCILLO KANE HOSSA
BICKELL BOLLAND SHAW
BOLLIG KRUGER MAYERS

OR

B) WITH SAAD at centre

SHARP TOEWS KANE
STALBERG/CARCILLO SAAD HOSSA
BICKELL BOLLAND SHAW
CARCILLO/STALBERG KRUGER MAYERS

OR

C) WITH SAAD at RW

SHARP TOEWS SAAD
STALBERG/CARCILLO KANE HOSSA
BICKELL BOLLAND SHAW
CARCILLO/STALBERG KRUGER MAYERS


OR

D) with SAAD at LW


SHARP TOEWS STALBERG
SAAD KANE HOSSA
BICKELL BOLLAND SHAW
CARCILLO KRUGER MAYERS




Structure analysis:

Of course NO SAAD (option A) leaves no issues -everyone is set in place but it means Kane is the 2nd line centre "solution" for this year..


OPTION B---SAAD at centre on line 2--leaves only the issue of whether Carcillo or Stalberg is the better LW option for he line -but i think with no Kane at centre you need less of Carcillo's "protection" on the line --so probably STALBERG stays at LW and Carcillio goes to LW on line #4...


OPTION C --SAAD at RW on line 1: SO with KANE as centre on line 2--you need Carcillo protection --so he plays LW and this forces STALBERG to LW on line #4...


OPTION D--SAAD at LW on line #2....it creates a line 2 with more scoring potential BUT SAAD is no "protector" guy for Kane ....on the other hand OPTION A (No SAAD)
and a protector Carcillo for Kane at centre on line #2 gives you less scoring (especially goals) from Carcillo but with the defensive responsiblity taken better are of that SAAD might provide at this stage of his career...also KANE is more "free" with Carcillo looking after his back..


So there are pros and cons to each of the structures...it could come down to the value of SAAD vs. CARCILLO on line #2 for the overall effectiveness of the line--or the value of anybody but KANE at centre on line #2 and so how effective SAAD might be in that role..

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07-26-2012, 12:26 PM
  #56
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I see most are excluding Jimmy Hayes from the starting line-up. I want to see him have a strong camp and if he does make the squad play more than 5 minutes a game. We could use his size upfront but Q must utilize him better than he did last season. He has good hands. If the PP sputters again, I wouldn’t hesitate to have him park that big body in the crease area and just keep firing at the net.

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07-26-2012, 01:02 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I see most are excluding Jimmy Hayes from the starting line-up. I want to see him have a strong camp and if he does make the squad play more than 5 minutes a game. We could use his size upfront but Q must utilize him better than he did last season. He has good hands. If the PP sputters again, I wouldn’t hesitate to have him park that big body in the crease area and just keep firing at the net.
for some reason, that job belongs to Jamal Mayers

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07-26-2012, 02:05 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I see most are excluding Jimmy Hayes from the starting line-up. I want to see him have a strong camp and if he does make the squad play more than 5 minutes a game. We could use his size upfront but Q must utilize him better than he did last season. He has good hands. If the PP sputters again, I wouldn’t hesitate to have him park that big body in the crease area and just keep firing at the net.
Hayes knows what he has to do... it's a matter of him doing it.. Much like Bickell...

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07-26-2012, 03:41 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
there are people penciling him in as our first line winger for next season. I'm hopeful that the kid will be great at the next level, but I don't think he should be rushed. A year in Rockford might help him.
penciling in Saad as our first line LW doesnt mean he is being overhyped. Carcillo played on the top line for God's sake last year, does that mean we expect him to score 30 goals?

by putting Saad on the top line, all some of us are saying and hoping for is a more balanced offense as well as Saad being able to learn the game from Toews and Kane.

nothing wrong with that at all. players get rotated all the time from line to line in the NHL, especially on the Hawks. Q is going to shift so many players around its gonna make you puke...so assuming any single player is going to play specifically on one line is absurd with this coaching staff.

if Saad can stick on our top line for the majority of the year, the Hawks will be a much better team for it then if he plays on our 3rd line...and he doesnt need to hit 30 plus goals to be our top line LW either...

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07-26-2012, 03:42 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I see most are excluding Jimmy Hayes from the starting line-up. I want to see him have a strong camp and if he does make the squad play more than 5 minutes a game. We could use his size upfront but Q must utilize him better than he did last season. He has good hands. If the PP sputters again, I wouldn’t hesitate to have him park that big body in the crease area and just keep firing at the net.
I personally want to see more of Jimmy Hayes in the top 9, and especially on our power play unit where he can park his rear infront of the net...

I also wouldnt be upset if the Hawks taught him how to play center as having his bigframe as our #4 center could really help this team out in a number of areas.

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07-26-2012, 04:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
penciling in Saad as our first line LW doesnt mean he is being overhyped. Carcillo played on the top line for God's sake last year, does that mean we expect him to score 30 goals?

by putting Saad on the top line, all some of us are saying and hoping for is a more balanced offense as well as Saad being able to learn the game from Toews and Kane.

nothing wrong with that at all. players get rotated all the time from line to line in the NHL, especially on the Hawks. Q is going to shift so many players around its gonna make you puke...so assuming any single player is going to play specifically on one line is absurd with this coaching staff.

if Saad can stick on our top line for the majority of the year, the Hawks will be a much better team for it then if he plays on our 3rd line...and he doesnt need to hit 30 plus goals to be our top line LW either...
Pencilled in perhaps, but he must make the team first, and not have anything handed to him. Same with every player in camp. No gimmees. This team needs to get hungry again.

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07-26-2012, 07:08 PM
  #62
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Exactly about Saad. Nothing wrong with him starting in the top 6 if he earns it in camp and if he doesn't work out then see what he can do on the 3rd line or send him down.

Wouldn't mind Hayes somewhere in the top 9 as well. Also, the idea of him learning center on the 4th line is intriguing.

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07-26-2012, 07:56 PM
  #63
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Personally Id like Saad paired with Toews and Hossa. They all play similar games. Of course the other line with Sharp, Kane and whomever at LW or C would be suspect defensively but whatever.

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07-26-2012, 08:44 PM
  #64
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I don't think anyone really wants to gift Saad a spot, but considering that he's already made the top 6 out of training camp once, it's hardly a stretch to think he'll do it again after an extra year of seasoning.

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07-27-2012, 12:00 AM
  #65
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Personally Id like Saad paired with Toews and Hossa. They all play similar games. Of course the other line with Sharp, Kane and whomever at LW or C would be suspect defensively but whatever.
I've liked the Toews-Hossa combo since the first time Q tried it. They are two of the best puck retrieval and possession guys in the league and the two of them working together can dominate shifts in the o-zone. In the few games Saad has played with the Hawks, he looks to have a nose for the puck and good instincts. It remains to be seen how well Saad will play when he gets more games, but I could see Saad working very well with Toews and Hossa.

That leaves Kane, Sharp and a mystery guest for the second line though. On the small chance the Hawks get Doan - he would fit very well on that line. He would provide protection and more offense than Carcillo. If the Hawks don't get Doan - it would probably be between Carcillo, Stalberg and Bickell. Regardless if Kane or Sharp plays center - it would still have pass-master Kane setting up the sniping Sharp shooter so that should work well in the o-zone.

Saad-Toews-Hossa
Sharp-Kane-Stalberg
Bickell-Bolland-Shaw
Carcillo-Kruger-Hayes
Mayers/Frolik

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07-27-2012, 05:43 AM
  #66
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I do not want Saad, Jayes, Kruger, Morin etc. given a spot on this team.

I want camp to be WIDE open and see who deserves to be on the roster, doubt that happens. Too revolutionary of an idea, around this team anyway.

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07-27-2012, 06:39 AM
  #67
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I think it will be this way... Camp and Spots are open, but some guys already have an advantage over others

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07-27-2012, 12:57 PM
  #68
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and now in today's article in hockeybuzz.com JJ telss us about DOAN's vist to Chicago and how Toews is personally wining and dining him AND that the Hawks will offer a big bucks contract and big on term lentgh BUT no mention of structure for up front bonus money ---whether not giving that loses the deal for them who knows -BUT the point is:

1. Adding DOAN to the top six WOULD crowd out SAAD (unless they traded STALBERG) ...it would also next year crowd out other "yute" forwards from any top six unless STALBERG or KANE gets traded or both get traded if SAAD takes a top six spot next year..the point is there is only finite room (6 top six spots)--right now Carcillo and Stalberg are the 2 non-core top sixers --If DOAN is added as a core for 4 -5 years that leave just 1 spot open to move a non-core top six guy.. IF TT is "ready by next year" --then NO ROOM AT THE INNFOR SAAD ...

SO if the top 4 and other "stars" of the team are disappointed the Hawks have not splashed for "help" from established known quantity impact vets ,and IF talented but unproven rookies must prrove to the team "star' core that they can be difference-makers--it looks like very little opportunity to do that..Of course bottom 6 spots are more 'contestable" by yute infusion -but you do not want your 2 best talented yutes to take a bottom six role ...NOW nobody would argue against the 2 best top six yute candidates replacing the mediocre Carcillo and Stalberg IF they can show they add more than those 2 --but if you add DOAN to the top six, it leaves -if not this year -by another year or two -only 1 spot open for a yute there.

Eventually you will stifle your pipeline with no hope of making it in a proper role and they willwant OUT... In the "old ays" even a top six yute had to "earn" up line promotion by starting on the bottom lines,getting mentored and "learning " the pro game...When he proved he was ready fpor a more featured role they then moved him up..BUT in today''s NHL--teams are inserting 18 and 19 year olds right away in the top six if they can show they can score as much or more than incumbent top sixers
..so If the Hawks have yute candidates who can impact better than incumbent top six vets BUT IF there is little or no room at the iNN (unless more incimbents are moved out) thyen this will certainly dispirit the pipeline.

You can't have it both ways.Toews and Kane came right in as yutes to our top six and impacted right away once they got that opportunity. Deny opportunity too long and the yutes of the pipeline will be wasted ..ADD a vet who your brass thinks can help better than other incumbent top sixers and that willhelp immediately.. BUT you can't have it both ways ...unless of course you open a spot by trading a "core vet' who did not perform as well as you expected..Which is why KANE is on the clock this year..

In conclusion: THE liklihood is that IF they landed DOAN -there willbe a mantra of "we do not need to rush SAAD"...so he gets put off a year..THEN if TT shows he had added muscle and is "ready by the 2013/14 season AND the put-off SAAD gets his big chance THEN too--then they will say adding 2 yutes is too much for 1 year
OR they will have shipped KANE out to make room IF he stinks THIS YEAR.. IF KANE rebounds this yer--THEN you get the only 1 not 2 spots open ifor yutes in the top six in 2013/14...but if SAAD gets put off 2 years-he could go "STALE" / dispirited ...
THEN you could have ruined him...


These vet/yute decisions are not that simple IF the yutes also have impacct talent levels..BUT of course they must prove they can impact gainst the men of the NHL level.

And so the juggle between must win NOW vs. it is coming soon -if not this year then next... but what you do this year could either set-up or ruin the years ahead..it is all about opportunities and open spots OR conversely about no room left at the inn...the correct strategy willbe judged from the results of the decisions.

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07-27-2012, 02:22 PM
  #69
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And they’d be right about Saad. Assuming he makes the team, it wouldn’t hurt him in the least to learn the NHL game in a bottom 6 role with a taste of some PP time. In fact it would likely be a very good way to transition him into a man’s league. As for VS, he has already proven to be quite effective in a bottom 6 role, so playing him there is a non-issue. Doan, on the other hand would be destined to play a top 6 role yes, but he too has the versatility to easily play in the bottom 6, and as he gets older may be pushed there by a Saad, Beach, Pirri, Morin etc….. TT is another story. If he does prove to be ready as soon as next season, Hawks would probably be wise to send him to the AHL for grooming. When he makes the jump, it may be a good time to move Hossa, possibly Sharp, or even Kane depending on how Kane matures (on and off the ice) in the next few years. I think it would work quite nicely to grab Doan.

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07-27-2012, 04:24 PM
  #70
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Once again, as always, JJ is a total clown.

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