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How does the current roster stack up to the beginning of the 05-06 season

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Old
07-27-2012, 07:12 PM
  #1
Roboturner913
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How does the current roster stack up to the beginning of the 05-06 season

To the best of my recollection, the lineup back then looked something like:

Whitney-Staal-Cole
Stillman-Brindy-JWilliams
x-Cullen-LaRose
Nordgren-KAdams-CAdams

With the x being a whole slew of players, Ladd and Vasicek were there but both got hurt, Vrbata and Zigomanis were flops, etc., but basically we had 7 legitimate scoring forwards before the Recchi and Weight trades happened.

Now, this year (combos are purely speculative):

Semin-Staal-Ruutu
Jokinen-Staal-Skinner
Tlusty-Welsh-LaRose
Brent-Nodl-Dwyer-Sutter-Bowman-whatever

Obviously the 4th line this year is not nearly as good as it was back then, but the top 9 is very comparable.

Defense then:
Hedican-Kaberle
Wesley-Ward
Commodore-Wallin

Tverdovsky-Hutchinson as extras

Defense now:
Pitkanen-Faulk
Gleason-Corvo
Harrison-McBain

Gragnani-Sanguinnetti-Murphy potential extras

The 05-06 defense had more toughness, but lacked a single player as good as Pitkanen and not a single player as tough/physical as Gleason. Fill in Faulk-McBain in the Hedican-Kaberle roles and Harrison as some reasonable facsimile of Aaron Ward and it looks pretty good.

Whatever your opinion, it appears JR is following a certain formula that worked before.

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07-27-2012, 07:19 PM
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geehaad
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I'd say that this team doesn't have 4 very important things that the older team had:

Defensive leadership
Playmaking
Speed on the wings
3rd line center

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07-27-2012, 07:29 PM
  #3
Roboturner913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
I'd say that this team doesn't have 4 very important things that the older team had:

Defensive leadership
Playmaking
Speed on the wings
3rd line center
Agreed, but compared to the current team, the older team lacked finishers up front, speed on defense and the pure dynamic talent of players like Skinner and Semin. The main difference I think is probably experience and leadership all the way around.

My point was not to say that they're exactly alike, just pointing out that there are plenty of similarities and that the Cup team was not a finished product even two-thirds of the way through the season.

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07-27-2012, 08:23 PM
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geehaad
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I think where the rubber will meet the road is the power play.

If this year's is similar to that year's they will do similarly.

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07-27-2012, 08:26 PM
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Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
I think where the rubber will meet the road is the power play.

If this year's is similar to that year's they will do similarly.
They had 10 SO wins as well I believe. Hopefully Semin improves that facet enough to offset Cam's.....difficulties.

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07-27-2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
I think where the rubber will meet the road is the power play.

If this year's is similar to that year's they will do similarly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
They had 10 SO wins as well I believe. Hopefully Semin improves that facet enough to offset Cam's.....difficulties.
They were $$$ in both of these that season.

Then it strangely went south.

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07-27-2012, 09:30 PM
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Not so much on the PP, at least until the playoffs. It was rather average from a league wide standpoint (17th, 17.9%), last years PP finished tied for 18th so not that far off. The PP didn't become unreal until the playoffs.

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07-28-2012, 01:52 AM
  #8
Carolinas Identity
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that year we added Dough Weight and Mark Recchi at the deadline, so if we are to repeat the formula and win a cup this year, what to oldies but goodies shall we aquire at this years deadline?

My vote is for Shane Doan and Jarome Iginla.

Semin//Eric//Doan
Skinner//Jordan//Iginla
Jokinen//Welsh//Ruutu
Dwyer//Brent//LaRose

Might as well get the parade planning started now

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07-28-2012, 06:12 AM
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Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post

Might as well get the parade planning started now
Of course, that's what Saber's fans said during the last offseason. While I am happy with the moves, they are all still good move "on paper" and IMO, our defense is still pretty weak. Not trying to be a downer, just tempering my own expectations.

I think the offense is should do very well this coming year.
1) The team was 16th in goal scoring last season and added Semin and J. Staal and we have Muller for a full season.
2) The PP was improving under Muller last year. The addition of Semin especially should definitely help that. Probably having J. Staal as a big body will help also.
3) The team was atrocious in OT/Shoot out last year. I think Semin with help the shootout and both J. Staal and Semin will help OT. Carolina had 16 OT/SO losses last year. Just convert half of those to wins and the team was just 2 points out of a playoff spot.

Defensively is where I'm still concerned. The team lost one of the best defensive forwards in the game. Jordan is no slouch, but he wasn't brought in to be a strictly shutdown, defensive guy like Sutter was. I'm not saying the team can't overcome that, but it's still a big TBD how that will be sorted out. Having a better offense will definitely help as it should mean more puck possession time, but the blue-line still scares me, which I've stated many times. That said, it could come together and be adequate, but again, it's a big concern for me that a team that gave up the most shots in the league the past 2 seasons lost their best defensive forward and got weaker on defense.

The issue with comparing this lineup to 2005/2006 is that the game is drastically different. There's much less scoring, many fewer PPs, and much more cluch/grab and blocking shots than there was right after the lockout. All in all, other than the Corvo signing, I like what JR did this offseason. Would have liked an upgrade on defense to go along with what he did on offense, but I'm still happy. I'm not ready to declare this team is a contender yet and/or that they are a shoe-in for the playoffs, but I'm at least optimistic.


Last edited by Boom Boom Anton: 07-28-2012 at 06:26 AM.
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07-28-2012, 06:52 AM
  #10
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The lines were more like

Stillman-Staal-Cole
X-Brind'amour-Williams
Whitney-Cullen-X
X-K.Adams

Hedican-Commodore
Kaberle-Ward
Wesley-Tverdovsky
Wallin
Hutchinson

They dressed seven defensemen a lot, and the Xs were filled by a billion different players. Craig Adams actually spent a lot of time with Brind'amour and Williams--in fact I'd say he spent more time on the 2nd line than the 4th. LaRose didn't play a game until December IIRC, and after that played mostly with Whitney and Cullen.

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07-28-2012, 07:07 AM
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geehaad
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Defensively is where I'm still concerned. The team lost one of the best defensive forwards in the game. Jordan is no slouch, but he wasn't brought in to be a strictly shutdown, defensive guy like Sutter was. I'm not saying the team can't overcome that, but it's still a big TBD how that will be sorted out. Having a better offense will definitely help as it should mean more puck possession time, but the blue-line still scares me, which I've stated many times. That said, it could come together and be adequate, but again, it's a big concern for me that a team that gave up the most shots in the league the past 2 seasons lost their best defensive forward and got weaker on defense.
Agreed, defensively, the team doesn't appear to have done anything to help themselves. However, even though Sutter himself was extremely good in his own end, there's only so much one player can do when pinned in their zone. In order to be truly effective as a "shutdown line", you also have to be able to maintain *some* possession in the opponent's end. I will opine that this is where Sutter's line struggled, and although I don't pin that shortcoming on him directly, I do think that's an aspect where Staal11 will bring an improvement to the so-called shutdown line.

As far as the defense where the blueliners are concerned, I think that's where JR will look to pull off a trade mid-season. How well he can shore up that (apparently) below-average group will have much to do with whether or not this team can prove the haters wrong. Someone needs to play defense with Pitkanen, and right now, I don't see a candidate for that role.

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07-28-2012, 08:13 AM
  #12
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2005 Erik Cole was a beast. You guys forgetting that? No one on the current roster has his skill set.

In fact, I wish we had 2012 Erik Cole back. 35G? We could instantly hit the ejection button on Ruutu.


Last edited by ChuckW: 07-28-2012 at 09:09 AM.
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07-28-2012, 09:38 AM
  #13
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My seven-year-old son is addicted to the 2006 Stanley Cup video. It's like it's on a constant loop at our house, and in the mini-van. And the one thing that resonates with me every time is the veteran leadership on that team. Brind'Amour, Whitney, Stillman, Wesley, Aaron Ward, Hedican, Kevyn Adams, and later on, Weight and Recchi.

The current team has one regular over age 30 (Corvo is 35) and our most veteran forward is Chad LaRose.

I really worry about the leadership core of the current version of the Canes and what would happen if we got off to a slow start.

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07-28-2012, 09:47 AM
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Our goal tending situation was certainly better then. Didn't Cam Ward begin that year as our backup? I would wager we were far better in the faceoff circle as well which is underrated.

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07-28-2012, 10:03 AM
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Our goal tending situation was certainly better then.
Martin Gerber had the mental toughness of a sea sponge.

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07-28-2012, 10:06 AM
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I would wager we were far better in the faceoff circle as well which is underrated.
Not really. The team was at 51.7% in 05-06 (51.2% in the playoffs), and 50.7% last season.

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07-28-2012, 10:09 AM
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Martin Gerber had the mental toughness of a sea sponge.
He got us to the playoffs and Ward finished the job. I doubt we'd have won the cup without him.

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07-28-2012, 10:11 AM
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ChuckW
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He got us to the playoffs and Ward finished the job. I doubt we'd have won the cup without him.
He nearly singlehandedly lost the Habs series and therefore almost singlehandedly torpedoed our Cup year.

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07-28-2012, 10:13 AM
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Gerber had a slightly better than league average sv% and the team had 112 points.

John Grahame could have got us to the playoffs.

Hell, Cam Ward had utterly terrible numbers and still got us 30 out of 48 possible points.

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07-28-2012, 10:15 AM
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He nearly singlehandedly lost the Habs series and therefore almost singlehandedly torpedoed our Cup year.
That one's on Lavi for going back to him after Game 1. Gerber was extremely sick, to the point that IIRC he lost something like 10-15lbs in the few weeks heading into the playoffs. If Lavi pulls the trigger going with the healthy Ward in game 2 we likely win that game and pull off the series in 5.

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07-28-2012, 10:19 AM
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ChuckW
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Gerber had a slightly better than league average sv% and the team had 112 points.

John Grahame could have got us to the playoffs.
This.

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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
That one's on Lavi for going back to him after Game 1. Gerber was extremely sick, to the point that IIRC he lost something like 10-15lbs in the few weeks heading into the playoffs. If Lavi pulls the trigger going with the healthy Ward in game 2 we likely win that game and pull off the series in 5.
True. Sickness is an excuse, I guess, but still.

I watched those games, as I'm sure you did. 1-0 Carolina after about 30 seconds of game #1, HERE WE GO CANES! Then....goal. goal. goal. goal. all Montreal, and all softies.

Don't talk to me about Gerber.

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07-28-2012, 10:21 AM
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That one's on Lavi for going back to him after Game 1. Gerber was extremely sick, to the point that IIRC he lost something like 10-15lbs in the few weeks heading into the playoffs. If Lavi pulls the trigger going with the healthy Ward in game 2 we likely win that game and pull off the series in 5.
Pretty much. Blaming Gerber for falling ill doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

I think the main difference between this roster and the Cup-winning one is that this one will be seen as "legitimate" by other fanbases (should we do the impossible), since we made a big splash for a "legitimate" player in the offseason and we have a "legitimate" goaltender to carry us there.

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07-28-2012, 10:44 AM
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Pretty much. Blaming Gerber for falling ill doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

I think the main difference between this roster and the Cup-winning one is that this one will be seen as "legitimate" by other fanbases (should we do the impossible), since we made a big splash for a "legitimate" player in the offseason and we have a "legitimate" goaltender to carry us there.
Yep, I remember getting laughed at on the main boards when I simply said that the Canes would be a serious contender for the playoffs (not even necessarily to do anything in them) that season. Most everyone was still on the Tampa kool-aid despite losing a couple dmen (Sarich and Kubina I think?), Bulin, and Stillman. The Canes were expected to be an afterthought in the East that year and a real contender in the Kessel sweepstakes. IIRC the people that weren't picking Tampa were picking Atlanta to win the SE that year.

A top 9 of Staal, Cole, Brind'Amour, Williams, Stillman (after being bought out by Tampa), Whitney (after being bought out by Detroit), Cullen, Vrbata, and Vasicek wasn't scaring anyone on paper. Funny how that worked out as just a little tinkering with things (shipping out Vrbata, bringing in Weight and Recchi) led to that being what's still IMO the best top 9 and overall forward group to win a cup post-lockout.



Biggest difference between that team and this one though was experience. That team started with an average age of 26.4 with a very veteran defense and the one that actually won the cup was an average of 28. Only reason either was so low is because of how young Staal (21), Ward (21), Williams (24), LaRose (23), Ladd (20), and Babchuk (21) were.

Average age heading into this season is just a hair younger (about 25.6 without factoring in Murphy possibly making it) and isn't anywhere near as experienced on the blueline.

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07-28-2012, 10:50 AM
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He nearly singlehandedly lost the Habs series and therefore almost singlehandedly torpedoed our Cup year.
But what nearly everyone forgets that when Ward faltered against Buffalo, Gerber came in and posted a shutout in a critical game 4 with Carolina down 2-1 in the series. He then got a quick hook in the next game and it was back to Ward. Gerber's contributions during the season also contributed to the Canes getting home ice advantage which turned out to be critical.

On another note, I always found it interesting that Ward won 15 playoff games vs. 14 regular season games. Not something you see too often for a Cup-winning goalie and Conn Smythe winner.

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07-28-2012, 11:52 AM
  #25
HisIceness
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Yep, I remember getting laughed at on the main boards when I simply said that the Canes would be a serious contender for the playoffs (not even necessarily to do anything in them) that season. Most everyone was still on the Tampa kool-aid despite losing a couple dmen (Sarich and Kubina I think?), Bulin, and Stillman. The Canes were expected to be an afterthought in the East that year and a real contender in the Kessel sweepstakes. IIRC the people that weren't picking Tampa were picking Atlanta to win the SE that year.

A top 9 of Staal, Cole, Brind'Amour, Williams, Stillman (after being bought out by Tampa), Whitney (after being bought out by Detroit), Cullen, Vrbata, and Vasicek wasn't scaring anyone on paper. Funny how that worked out as just a little tinkering with things (shipping out Vrbata, bringing in Weight and Recchi) led to that being what's still IMO the best top 9 and overall forward group to win a cup post-lockout.



Biggest difference between that team and this one though was experience. That team started with an average age of 26.4 with a very veteran defense and the one that actually won the cup was an average of 28. Only reason either was so low is because of how young Staal (21), Ward (21), Williams (24), LaRose (23), Ladd (20), and Babchuk (21) were.

Average age heading into this season is just a hair younger (about 25.6 without factoring in Murphy possibly making it) and isn't anywhere near as experienced on the blueline.
I still have the NHL SI preview from October 2005. They had Carolina finishing 28th, in front of Washington and the Rangers(who did make the playoffs that season). They had Calgary and Philadelphia in the finals. They were really high on the Flyers signing Forsberg and they thought the Flames would "get over" their '04 Finals loss and would be stronger for it.

It's still pretty amusing to go back and read that and then look at my 2006 SC Champions stuff.

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