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GDT: 4/22 - Rangers @ Devils, Game 1 (3:00PM, NBC/TSN)

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Old
04-23-2006, 09:58 AM
  #701
NYRaNgErS99112
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At the end of the game Coach Renney said that the Rangers were "embarressed out there"...and they certainly should be embarressed by yesterday's effort. Lets just hope that they're embarressed enough that they come out playing hard on Monday and win Game 2. If they win game 2 they're in pretty good shape for the series. A split in games 1 and 2 would give the Rangers home ice for the rest of the series. Please be OK Jaromir .

*The Rangers lost their first game against the Devils in the '97 series...they went on to win the next four.

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04-23-2006, 10:06 AM
  #702
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Yea, Rangers lost game 1, 2-0 and then won game 2, 2-0. Be nice if they can come out with a 6-1 win in game 2. I can hope.

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04-23-2006, 10:31 AM
  #703
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
There are certain things that fall squarely onto the shoulders of the coach. Discipline, special teams & line combinations are amongst them. As was at the decision to send Jagr our there when it made no sense to do so. So yes, it makes perfect sense.
TB line combinations falls squarly on Renney's shoulder. You have a problem with them, I know that. Its perfectly possible that you are right and I have no problem what-so-ever with your view on that situation.

But specialteams don't fall squarly on the coach shoulders. For example having a Forsberg, Elias or Jagr defenitly helps a PP. Thats a fact. Having a Ortmayer and Lundqvist in shape helps a PK. More then anything the powerplay falls squarly on the players and the PK is atleast 90% on the players. I mean national teams practically don't even practise penalty killing during tournaments. I mean take 4 great PKers from 4 diffrent teams and put them out there without playing together before and they know what to do. The coaching staff might be the diffrence between if you have a PK% of 85 or 87.

Discipline is another subject. Allot of that goes back at the coach. But then against there is a question whats a lack of discipline? A retaliation slash if you are hit is the best example of lack of discipline. We haven't had any problems with that. Of the penaltys I had the most problems with last night where Roszivals boarding, Maliks elbows and Ozolinsh slash/tripp. They wheren't good and shouldn't have happend. They also cost us allot.

Ozolinsh commited his because he doesn't know better. To stop that he, IMO, shouldn't have been picked up in the first place. Or learn him to play defense. I didn't expect Ozo to be so bad defensivly when we picked up, but have changed my opinion on him.

Roszivals and Maliks penaltys, I don't know what to say. I where suprised by them. Don't know what they where thinking or trying to do, maybe play physical for the first time this year, I don't know. Though I don't put them squarly on Renney's shoulders.

Of the other penaltys that we still took when the game was on the line I can't really complain at them. Moore's holding, Wards elbow, Orts interferance, Betts hooking and Poti's highstick. Everything was called and we played bad. That results in 5 penaltys against just about anybody. Devs had 7. Its the 3 I talked about above that we shouldn't have taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
You are right. It does not happen overnight. He has had all year to instill discipline. This has been harped on ALL year and we were blasted for pointing it out. Now, when it becomes more costly than ever, people are noticing it. The fact that he has had all year to do it and has not done so is a direct inditement of his coaching.
Now you changed subject TB. I where talking about the PKing and you know that. You said that this was a poorly prepared team and that it was Renney's fault.

Though all year you have harped about something, brought it back in a diffrent version with a diffrent background and diffrent subject. Everytime it have been the same "its Renney's fault" or "Roszival sucks" theme.

If Renney had instilled the discipline you are talking about there is a big possibility that we wouldn't have been in the PO's. Not taking penaltys like Moore's holding, Wards elbow, Orts interferance, Betts hooking and Poti's highstick is one thing, playing good defense with zero tolerance without taking does penaltys is another. If you sit Roszival everytime he takes a penalty you will have a disciplined team but a terrible defense. NJD is the most disciplined team and they had 7 penlatys in the first two while we had 8. There where allot of penaltys last night that we shouldn't have taken. But again the question is how many of them falls on Renney's shoulder or the players shoulder. What good it does for a coach telling a player something he already knows at this level under these circumstances is beyond me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I never said that Renney has done an overall poor job. However, coaches like Hitch and Lou ran circles around him. ALL of his coaching weaknesses were exposed. His strengths are teaching and motivating. Once you get past that, he is very, very ordinary. His team was not prepared to play for 60 minutes. That is a direct inditement of the coach.
Look in the same post you admited how much experience matters, we all know that. In the regular season Renney had a better powerplay and a better PK and PP then Lou and Hitch. Gooing into the year we had a better gameplan then thoose teams. We also had better results for what 90% of the season and the games between the teams where in our favor or tied. Maybe the reason why we aren't ahead anymore in the end have just a little bit to do with the fact that we have 16-17 new players and 8 of them are really unexperienced players. Don't you think?

Nah blame it all on Renney. With Hitch or Lou we would have won the president trophy.

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04-23-2006, 10:37 AM
  #704
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRaNgErS99112
At the end of the game Coach Renney said that the Rangers were "embarressed out there"...and they certainly should be embarressed by yesterday's effort. Lets just hope that they're embarressed enough that they come out playing hard on Monday and win Game 2. If they win game 2 they're in pretty good shape for the series. A split in games 1 and 2 would give the Rangers home ice for the rest of the series. Please be OK Jaromir .

*The Rangers lost their first game against the Devils in the '97 series...they went on to win the next four.
To do so a bunch of players have to show tremendous character to bunch back. Our 3rd and 4th line which where killed all night needs to get back on track. Our D's have to play really solid. Lundqvist have to get back on track and play fantastic. We need to be really confident not to make unnecessary misstakes against a extremely calculation NJD. Its gooing to be tough as **********.

Its not just about fixing what went wrong last night. The marginals when you play a team like NJD are extremely small. Its not luck but you have to be darn confident and patiente to handle a this kind of series. I am really questioning if we have that in us. If we do we have will beat NJD. In the end they aren't that good. We played really well against them 5 on 5. Our biggest enemy is ourselfs.

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04-23-2006, 11:50 AM
  #705
Larry Melnyk
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Thank God there finallly were a few rational posts in this thread on the day after...The infantile gibberish, like always, never ceases to amaze...And then you have these idiots from other boards giving their useless opinon on a useless fight between Hollweg and a useless goon......

As for the Rangers, it was a sad sight...The reffing did suck but it was the Ranger stupidity that lost the game. Plain and simple...And while I think Renney's shortcomings as a coach have started to emerge as the competion get better and teams play harder, this version of the Rangers will have a hard time winning in the POs....They just do not have the defense, depth and especially the physicality to do it...But what else can be expected from a team on the way up....This type of team was decided upon by Sather, Maloney and Renney at the start of the season and cemented at the deadline with the refusal to bring in a Physical D-man and/or a more physical forward......WHile Renney is making mistakes, he can't draw blood from a stone.....ANd he has been the p[erfect coach for this year, teaching kids and bringing the Rangers along.....I expect himn to caoch one more year before being bumped upstairs as a better coach is brought in when maybe the Rangers have the ammuniton to truly contend....

As for the reffing and Bettman...This is a game the NHL has been waiting to show to a national audience since the season began and what they provided the public with was perhaps the most boring and watchable game possible....Just because the little hockey-destroying peuke Bettman was in the arena and the refs were crapping in their boots....And the minimization of the game (in th eyes of the AMerican public) just continues..

As for the rest of the series, I think this Ranger team will come back and win it in 6..OK, would you believe, give a valiant effort and maybe win one game?...I have no clue waht to do with the lines...But it all starts with smarts, discipline and team defense...Like ealeir in the season...

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Old
04-23-2006, 11:55 AM
  #706
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yo guys flyers fan here and after watching a great hockey game last night hopefully the rangers can pull together and you guys dont have to suffer through a penaly fest again

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Old
04-23-2006, 12:23 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
But specialteams don't fall squarly on the coach shoulders.
Special teams is all coaching. As he got the credit for the overall good special teams during the year, so too must he get the dammnation for the 6 PP goals given up yesterday. I know that the scoresheet showed only 5, but Klee scored his goal before the Rangers player every had the chance to step out of the box.
Quote:
Discipline is another subject. Allot of that goes back at the coach. But then against there is a question whats a lack of discipline?
A lack of discipline is 13 different players taking minor penalties.
Quote:
retaliation slash if you are hit is the best example of lack of discipline. We haven't had any problems with that.
Not being able to prevent yourself from hooking or holding is also a lack of discipline. When your teams is taking what is amongst the top 5 in the league in minor penalties taken, that is a lack of discipline. No good play can be seperated from taking obstruction penalties.
Quote:
Of the penaltys I had the most problems with last night where Roszivals boarding, Maliks elbows and Ozolinsh slash/tripp. They wheren't good and shouldn't have happend. They also cost us allot.
Ola, you just named 3. There were 3 others that were scored on and 11 others overall. You may have had issues with only 3 penalties, but the refs had issues with other 11 that apparently you view as completely fine.
Quote:
Ozolinsh commited his because he doesn't know better. To stop that he, IMO, shouldn't have been picked up in the first place. Or learn him to play defense. I didn't expect Ozo to be so bad defensivly when we picked up, but have changed my opinion on him.
Well, you know what? If he is that bad that he hurts the team, then he should not be in the lineup during the playoffs, now should he?
Quote:
Roszivals and Maliks penaltys, I don't know what to say.
I do. It's called lack of discipline. And neither one of them was made to be accountable for their penalties during the regular season.
Quote:
Though I don't put them squarly on Renney's shoulders.
Lack of discipline falls squarely onto the shoulders of the coach.
Quote:
That results in 5 penaltys against just about anybody. Devs had 7. Its the 3 I talked about above that we shouldn't have taken.
The Rangers took 14 minors. FOURTEEN!!!. There are more than just 3 that they should have not taken. If you cannot stop the opposing team on the PK (and I would say that 6 PP goals by the Devs shows that you cannot), then you should not be taking 14 penalties.
Quote:
Though all year you have harped about something, brought it back in a diffrent version with a diffrent background and diffrent subject. Everytime it have been the same "its Renney's fault" or "Roszival sucks" theme.
Excuse me? I have harped on Renney for all of the things that became evident over the last 2 months now. And as for Rozsival, it was pointed out my many people just how everyone was overrating him becuase of an assinine statistic.
We have harped on certian things all year. And all year, there were people who responded with:
1. Why can't you guys just be happy? Look how well the team is doing.
2. Who cares about penalties? Look at how great the PK is.
3. How can you criticize the defense? Look at how great the GAA is.
Quote:
If Renney had instilled the discipline you are talking about there is a big possibility that we wouldn't have been in the PO's
So if there was more disclipline the Rangers would not make the playoffs? That is a pretty interesting take. Virtually all hockey coaches and GMs would disagree with you.
Quote:
If you sit Roszival everytime he takes a penalty you will have a disciplined team but a terrible defense.
Then why was Poti sat? And notice that Poti's play improved after his several benchings. And subtracting Rozsival, would not worsen the defense any. Anyone having Malik as a partner and skating around with Jagr's line all the time could have easily duplicated Rozsival's #'s.
Quote:
But again the question is how many of them falls on Renney's shoulder or the players shoulder. What good it does for a coach telling a player something he already knows at this level under these circumstances is beyond me.
All of the undisciplined penalties fall onto Renney's shoulders. All of them are issues that should have been addressed during the regular season. All of them were not.
Quote:
Maybe the reason why we aren't ahead anymore in the end have just a little bit to do with the fact that we have 16-17 new players and 8 of them are really unexperienced players. Don't you think?
Using experience as an excuse is silly, IMO. Out of the top 6 forwards, only one is under the age of 30. Out of the top 6 defensemen, only one is a rookie. That is as much experience as the Devil or Flyers have.
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Nah blame it all on Renney. With Hitch or Lou we would have won the president trophy.
I have no idea if we would have won the President's trophy. But I do know that the team would not have taken 14 minors, allowed the opposing team to set up camp in front of the goalie or had Jagr out there in such at such a inopportune time.

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04-23-2006, 12:34 PM
  #708
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Just because it needs to be said....

Resign Rozsival!!!!

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04-23-2006, 01:40 PM
  #709
Ola
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TB- You made 14 comments. On them, all I can say is cut the crap. You know better.

Incase you where serious when you wrote that post here this is the reason I don't even bother taking the time to make a serious reply;

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Special teams is all coaching.
We all know it aint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Well, you know what? If he is that bad that he hurts the team, then he should not be in the lineup during the playoffs, now should he?
I am sure Renney wouldn't mind Lidström in there instead. Do you think he would mind? Nah blame it on Renney.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
A lack of discipline is 13 different players taking minor penalties.
You may not know it but a very small % of penaltys are the result of lack of discipline. With the zero tolerance there is a extremely thin line to walk on. Any team that don't play well will take a ton of penaltys with these rules. Though blame it all on Renney. It have nothing to do with the personell...

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Using experience as an excuse is silly, IMO.
Oki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I have no idea if we would have won the President's trophy.
Well I do. Think hard about it and I think you might too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Excuse me? I have harped on Renney for all of the things that became evident over the last 2 months now. And as for Rozsival, it was pointed out my many people just how everyone was overrating him becuase of an assinine statistic.
We have harped on certian things all year. And all year, there were people who responded with:
1. Why can't you guys just be happy? Look how well the team is doing.
2. Who cares about penalties? Look at how great the PK is.
3. How can you criticize the defense? Look at how great the GAA is.
This is pissing me off. If you are gooing to be cocky and go on and on about how smart you are, stand for it when you have been wrong. Do you think everyone have alzheimer around here? You practically called the brass and every fan on these boards for idiots for saying that Roszival, Nylander and Straka wheren't terrible pickups to start with and went on and on about how Roszival wouldn't even be a top 6 on most teams in the league. And Nylander, I don't remember who it was you said have the same offensive out put as Nylander if he played with Jagr, this was like 30 games into the year, was it Lundmark, Moore or Immonen? Do you remember that? I think it went on for 10 pages.

And on all thoose "points" you brought up. When you keep harping about how players bad players like Nylander/Straka/Roszival where nobody said anything about "just be happy we will win the cup". We said no they arent so bad.

"Who cares about penaltys", yeah I am sure allot of us said that.

"How can you criticize the defense? Look at how great the GAA is. "

Nah TB all everyone said was maybe Roszival and Poti aren't the worst D's in the leauge. Remeber?

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04-23-2006, 01:49 PM
  #710
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I always thought the "people in NY can't take a rebuild" was just crap. But if this is the amount of crow a coach takes for not winning the president trophy or Cup with this team its pretty obvious why the brass haven't been urgent to start a rebuild the last decade.

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04-23-2006, 04:00 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
We all know it aint.
That is fine. That is your opinion. I however believe that it has everything to do with it.
Quote:
I am sure Renney wouldn't mind Lidström in there instead. Do you think he would mind? Nah blame it on Renney.
No one is blaming Ozolinsh's poor defensive play on Renney. However, if he is that bad that he hurts the team, then he should not be in the lineup. Lidstrom has nothing to do with it.
Quote:
You may not know it but a very small % of penaltys are the result of lack of discipline.
Again, I disagree. I think that virtually every one of them shows a lack of discipline.
Quote:
With the zero tolerance there is a extremely thin line to walk on. Any team that don't play well will take a ton of penaltys with these rules.
With zero tolerance, the Devils took half the penalties the Rangers did. Obviously the team playing with less discipline is often on the loosing end.
Quote:
Though blame it all on Renney. It have nothing to do with the personell...
Renney gets the blame not for the personell, but for not instilling accountability amongst ALL the personell. Poti learned. Nylander seemed to have learned. Had Renney held EVERYONE accountable for the penaltied during the regular season, it could be that we are not having this discussion right now.
Quote:
Well I do. Think hard about it and I think you might too.
You do what? Believe that had the Rangers had Hitch or Lou, that they would have won the President's Cup? Personally, no matter how hard I have to think about it, I have no idea.
Quote:
This is pissing me off. If you are gooing to be cocky and go on and on about how smart you are, stand for it when you have been wrong. Do you think everyone have alzheimer around here? You practically called the brass and every fan on these boards for idiots for saying that Roszival, Nylander and Straka wheren't terrible pickups to start with and went on and on about how Roszival wouldn't even be a top 6 on most teams in the league.
Excuse me? This has nothing do to with showing anyone how "smart" I am. Where did you get that idea from?
Please find just one time that I have EVER said that Nylander and Straka were terrible pick-ups. Please do not invent things. Your comment is simply not true. There have been multiple times that I have come out and was glad to say I was wrong on my original thoughts. You are WAAAAAAY off-base here.
And as for Rozsival, I cannot recall if I said that he would not be in any top 6. I believe I said that he would not be on anything but the 3rd defensive pairing on any other team in the league. And what of it? I still stand by those comments.
Please do not make up or even allude to comments that could not be any further from the truth. I NEVER, EVER alluded to ANY poster being an idiot. NEVER. Just like I never made the comments that you claim I made about either Nylander or Straka. No need to revise history.
Quote:
And Nylander, I don't remember who it was you said have the same offensive out put as Nylander if he played with Jagr, this was like 30 games into the year, was it Lundmark, Moore or Immonen? Do you remember that? I think it went on for 10 pages
Again, let's not revise history. I said that virtually anyone could have ROZSIVAL'S stats had they had Malik as a partner and been welded to Jagr's line. You will not find anywhere where I stated that Lundmark, Moore or Immonen would duplicate Nylander's production.
Quote:
"How can you criticize the defense? Look at how great the GAA is. "

Nah TB all everyone said was maybe Roszival and Poti aren't the worst D's in the leauge. Remeber?
You have a real short memory if you do not recall such comments being made. If you truly cannot remember them, then we will have to agree to disagree.

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04-23-2006, 04:01 PM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
I always thought the "people in NY can't take a rebuild" was just crap. But if this is the amount of crow a coach takes for not winning the president trophy or Cup with this team its pretty obvious why the brass haven't been urgent to start a rebuild the last decade.
NO ONE is agruing this point and you know it.

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04-24-2006, 06:11 AM
  #713
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
we will have to agree to disagree.
We'll do that. And hope that we kick NJD's butts tonight!

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