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Old
07-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
So it's Burke's fault Sundin wanted to win a Stanley Cup? Ok then...
Sundin wanted to come back. He never wanted to waive his no-trade and didn't precisely because he wanted to finish his career as a Leaf. Why do you think he didn't waive his no-trade?

When he was a UFA he felt he wasn't wanted in T.O. anymore and if Burke would have stepped up he would have returned. Burke made no attempt to make Matts feel wanted.

It's sad people like you with no knowledge of the situation pretend to know what happened. Do a little research bud and quit talking out of your arse.

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07-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Burke was on the tail end of it and could have brought Sundin back as a UFA. He declined.

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=257818

Now, you gotta love people like you who think they have a clue but are talking out their arse.
To say Burke has done nothing is just wrong. Tell when the last time we had 2 ppg players. Gardiner would also be consideted more than nothing.

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07-28-2012, 10:39 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Sundin wanted to come back. He never wanted to waive his no-trade and didn't precisely because he wanted to finish his career as a Leaf. Why do you think he didn't waive his no-trade?

When he was a UFA he felt he wasn't wanted in T.O. anymore and if Burke would have stepped up he would have returned. Burke made no attempt to make Matts feel wanted.

It's sad people like you with no knowledge of the situation pretend to know what happened. Do a little research bud and quit talking out of your arse.
While i partly agree, 20 million over 2 years is a bit high to compete with...no?

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07-28-2012, 10:42 AM
  #179
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Stan Bowman: D (only reason he does not get an F is for the 2 pros...he at least did something)

Pros:
Brought in an upgrade to O'Donnell (Brookbank)
Let Brunette, Huet, O'Donnell leave
Resigned Oduya who can play top 4 and doesn't make the expenditures of 2013 picks (2nd and 3rd) a total waste

Cons:
Did not address hole at #2 Center.
No #1 Goalie
formed a group of forwards that look like they will be high skill and knocked on their rears.
Will ice a team that resembles the one eliminated in the first round this spring
Unable to offer sheet because of trading offer sheet compensation picks for Oduya.
2 strikes no balls

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Old
07-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
To say Burke has done nothing is just wrong. Tell when the last time we had 2 ppg players. Gardiner would also be consideted more than nothing.
There is some hope -- I did say that -- but by comparison there are many teams with as much or more hope. So if current result are abysmal, and please enlighten me on how they aren't, and your hope is centered around 4-5 players -- a number that MANY teams can match -- how does that constitute a job well done? Philly, NYR, Carolina, Ottawa, L.A. and other ALL have better teams now and a future that's as bright or brighter. Just tell me what puts the Leafs into the elite of this league now and in the future and I'll change my grade. Reality is -- they are brutal now and on pace for respectability -- witch gets a big fat F.

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Old
07-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
I'd give Regier a B.
- Signed Ehrhoff to a cap friendly deal
- Signed Myers long-term before reaching RFA status (to a steal of a cap hit if he reaches his potential)
- Traded for Regehr, without dealing anything important
- Acquired Hodgson
- Got a 1st for Paul freaking Gaustad (and a 4th)
- Drafted Grigorenko, and traded up to also draft Girgensons
- Probably lost value-wise on the Roy deal, but ultimately got a deal that changes team culture and makes us tougher to play against
- Swung and missed on a few UFAs this summer
- Could've done better at getting veteran AHL talent for Rochester

In general, he's been very aggressive about filling team needs and has set the team up very well to succeed in the future, building from the center position out up front, and well stocked on D.
Generally, I think you pegged all of the accomplishments / highlights of his work in the past year correctly and the grade of "B" does seem fair - although the biggest reason he doesn't deserve an "A" is because of his hesitation to act earlier in the season to get reinforcements for the team when they went into the freefall during the first half. Had he done something sooner, if only to fill the hope tank and show management's willingness to help the players, they may have made the playoffs with the 2nd half push. Instead, it sounded very much like Regier was OK burying his head in the sand along with Pegula, Black and Ruff with the injury excuse.

As for the two bolded items, they seem unwarranted criticisms. The only two UFAs that the Sabres were interested in besides Doan were guys that 20 other teams reportedly were chasing (Parise/Suter) and their reported offer to each was comparable to what they signed for in Minnesota. Their desire to play in their home state pretty much excluded all of the other teams, just as Richards' desire last summer to play for his former coach excluded all of the other teams. If anything, Regier's reported $100M offer to both Parise and Suter should be added to his list of positive achievements in the past year.

It's still 2 months before training camp - and not uncommon for many teams to sign depth players for their minor league teams later in the summer. I think it's premature to judge what remains for players being added for the Sabres' farm team.

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Old
07-28-2012, 10:49 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Sundin wanted to come back. He never wanted to waive his no-trade and didn't precisely because he wanted to finish his career as a Leaf. Why do you think he didn't waive his no-trade?
How do you know what he wanted? He said he wouldn't waive because he didn't want to be a rental player. If he wanted to retire a Leaf he would have done so, not sign with Vancouver. Anyway this has gotten too off topic so that's the end of it.

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Old
07-28-2012, 10:49 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
While i partly agree, 20 million over 2 years is a bit high to compete with...no?
It wasn't about the money with Matts. Even if it was it would have been better spent than on Komisarik and Armstrong.

Call me old fashioned but Sundin should have finished his career as a Leaf, ditto for Gilmour and when Gretzky wanted to become a Leaf before NY -- he should have been signed.

You want to be considered one of the best franchises -- act like it.

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Old
07-28-2012, 10:53 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
How do you know what he wanted? He said he wouldn't waive because he didn't want to be a rental player. If he wanted to retire a Leaf he would have done so, not sign with Vancouver. Anyway this has gotten too off topic so that's the end of it.

More of your opinion and we all know where it comes from. He wanted to feel wanted. Fletcher ran him out of town and Burke agreed it was time to turn the page. Sundin was looking for some appreciation and to feel wanted. Burke didn't get it done. A familiar refrain from Brian Burke.

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Old
07-28-2012, 10:56 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
To say Burke has done nothing is just wrong. Tell when the last time we had 2 ppg players. Gardiner would also be consideted more than nothing.
60 games isn't enough to annoit Lupul a ppg player. While Kessel did it for the first time guys like Gilmour, Andrechyuk, Sundin, Mogilny, Neiwendyk did it most of their careers.

Look at the other teams in the league without rose coloured glasses and many can easily match the Leafs talent for the future. Many can better it.

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Old
07-28-2012, 11:05 AM
  #186
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Don't think everyone wants to read arguing over Burke, may as well go to the thread already set up in the leafs forum

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...235651&page=40

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Old
07-28-2012, 11:07 AM
  #187
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David Poile

B-


Frankly, he should have had the Suter and Weber situations fixed long ago.

But his draft was pretty good.

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Old
07-28-2012, 11:25 AM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
There is some hope -- I did say that -- but by comparison there are many teams with as much or more hope. So if current result are abysmal, and please enlighten me on how they aren't, and your hope is centered around 4-5 players -- a number that MANY teams can match -- how does that constitute a job well done? Philly, NYR, Carolina, Ottawa, L.A. and other ALL have better teams now and a future that's as bright or brighter. Just tell me what puts the Leafs into the elite of this league now and in the future and I'll change my grade. Reality is -- they are brutal now and on pace for respectability -- witch gets a big fat F.
Hey, i'm not here to change your mind. But it took Sather 12 years to build that respectable team. Philly, while being a playoff team, has achieved what? Ottawa played WELL above expectations last season, (according to EVERY hockey mind before the season) i respect their position last year but they have Spezza an aging Alfie and Karlson who i hope can repeat for their sake and what else? If you want to tell me the team Burke took over was better than this one you are mistaken. His 1st 2 years were spent shedding overpaid underachieving lifer contracted players. Sure, we don't have a #1C, guess he should have taken some of the extremely valuable players he inherited to get 1...LOL. OR, he should sign one of the plethora of #1C's who come up as UFA's every offseason. Lets remember were we came from at the start of the Burke era, it's been a long time since playoffs yes, but those ARE NOT all Burke years. I won't count his 1st 2 years as he had to shed absolute crap before he could start to build. I've said it before, Burkes true value will only be seen after he is gone.

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Old
07-28-2012, 11:38 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Generally, I think you pegged all of the accomplishments / highlights of his work in the past year correctly and the grade of "B" does seem fair - although the biggest reason he doesn't deserve an "A" is because of his hesitation to act earlier in the season to get reinforcements for the team when they went into the freefall during the first half. Had he done something sooner, if only to fill the hope tank and show management's willingness to help the players, they may have made the playoffs with the 2nd half push. Instead, it sounded very much like Regier was OK burying his head in the sand along with Pegula, Black and Ruff with the injury excuse.

As for the two bolded items, they seem unwarranted criticisms. The only two UFAs that the Sabres were interested in besides Doan were guys that 20 other teams reportedly were chasing (Parise/Suter) and their reported offer to each was comparable to what they signed for in Minnesota. Their desire to play in their home state pretty much excluded all of the other teams, just as Richards' desire last summer to play for his former coach excluded all of the other teams. If anything, Regier's reported $100M offer to both Parise and Suter should be added to his list of positive achievements in the past year.

It's still 2 months before training camp - and not uncommon for many teams to sign depth players for their minor league teams later in the summer. I think it's premature to judge what remains for players being added for the Sabres' farm team.
I guess. The biggest slight against him in the past year, which neither of us even mentioned, is obviously the Leino contract/signing. A lot of money for a pretty average player.

In any case, the disappointment I have with Rochester is basically that he replaced Morrisonn with Pardy, Scszechura with Porter, upgraded Whitmore to Mancari, and added nothing else. We have Leggio back, who's a good but not great AHL goalie. But with Foligno, presumably, graduating to the NHL and Tropp/Adam/McNabb also having the potential to do so, it doesn't seem like he did anything to improve over last year's team. There is still time, but it doesn't seem like he has a lot of roster spots there left to fill.

In any case, I'm generally happy with the direction he has the team going in. I like the aggressiveness he's shown in his pursuit of trades and FAs, even if he's not batting 1.000. I'm thrilled with how quickly he's been able to accumulate young high-end talent (Hodgson, Grigorenko, Girgensons added to Ennis, McNabb, Pysyk, Myers, Foligno, Armia). I just wish he had more good vets in the AHL to help make the transition to the pro game easier for some of them.


Last edited by tsujimoto74: 07-28-2012 at 12:31 PM.
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Old
07-28-2012, 12:01 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Hey, i'm not here to change your mind. But it took Sather 12 years to build that respectable team. Philly, while being a playoff team, has achieved what? Ottawa played WELL above expectations last season, (according to EVERY hockey mind before the season) i respect their position last year but they have Spezza an aging Alfie and Karlson who i hope can repeat for their sake and what else? If you want to tell me the team Burke took over was better than this one you are mistaken. His 1st 2 years were spent shedding overpaid underachieving lifer contracted players. Sure, we don't have a #1C, guess he should have taken some of the extremely valuable players he inherited to get 1...LOL. OR, he should sign one of the plethora of #1C's who come up as UFA's every offseason. Lets remember were we came from at the start of the Burke era, it's been a long time since playoffs yes, but those ARE NOT all Burke years. I won't count his 1st 2 years as he had to shed absolute crap before he could start to build. I've said it before, Burkes true value will only be seen after he is gone.
Going into Burke's 5th year soon and the team still doesn't match up with Boston, Pittsburg, Washington, Philly, L.A., and others young core. Burke's core consists of Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner and some prospects that will be good. Reilly looks to be a potential star but I'd take Carolina with Staal, Staal, Skinner, Ward and others ahead of Burke's group. Just like I'd take a dozen other franchises as a better starting ground for the future. So if we suck now and the talent level is middle of the pack moving forward how does that not equate to an F? Burke is paid to buil this team into a perennial contender -- there are no signs that it will be that with case moving forward. I'm not sure 20 other GM's couldn't have easily accomplished what he has in his time here.

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Old
07-28-2012, 02:42 PM
  #191
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I'll give Tambo a B+

He's done everything we hoped outside of bringing in one more top 4 dman (which he is still working on). He
- Won the Schultz sweepstakes
- Took Nail (despite everyone out east saying we need Murray)
-Resigned Petry and Smyth to absolute steals

Doesn't seem like a ton, but we're in a rebuild and you can't rush it

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Old
07-28-2012, 02:57 PM
  #192
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I'll give Tambo a B+

He's done everything we hoped outside of bringing in one more top 4 dman (which he is still working on). He
- Won the Schultz sweepstakes
- Took Nail (despite everyone out east saying we need Murray)
-Resigned Petry and Smyth to absolute steals

Doesn't seem like a ton, but we're in a rebuild and you can't rush it
Tambo gets an F. Years of being brutal and winning the lottery don't make you good. The guy has not addressed any of the Oiler needs except by finishing dead last. Tambo sucks and as this team moves to the middle of the pack his inability to fill holes will become evident. Don't pretend finishing last takes any brains and should be rewarded. Solid F.

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Old
07-28-2012, 02:59 PM
  #193
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Burke : B

Hasn't done anything yet to make us a playoff team, but the small moves he has made this off-season have been good.

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07-28-2012, 03:02 PM
  #194
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Ray Shero - D+

gaping holes in our top4 and top6.

no clue how we are cup favorites with this squad.

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Old
07-28-2012, 03:03 PM
  #195
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Burke : B

Hasn't done anything yet to make us a playoff team, but the small moves he has made this off-season have been good.
Burke gets an F-

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Old
07-28-2012, 03:10 PM
  #196
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Ray Shero - D+

gaping holes in our top4 and top6.

no clue how we are cup favorites with this squad.
No offense but I agree. That team is not good on paper. Then again their Cup winning team wasn't great on paper either and they still won.

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Old
07-28-2012, 03:15 PM
  #197
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Burke gets an F-
So obsessed with the Leafs

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Old
07-28-2012, 03:15 PM
  #198
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Jay Feaster: B-

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Old
07-28-2012, 03:41 PM
  #199
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Burke : B

Hasn't done anything yet to make us a playoff team, but the small moves he has made this off-season have been good.
How does Burke get a B? Toronto has gaping holes, and he's done nothing to fill any of them.

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Old
07-28-2012, 03:42 PM
  #200
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Ray Shero - D+

gaping holes in our top4 and top6.

no clue how we are cup favorites with this squad.
You poor, poor thing.

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