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Old
04-24-2006, 10:33 AM
  #26
Brandi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BURY
I don't wanna start a big debate on this but the problem with the Canadian anthem is that we have no identity. We have never been able to build an identity in Canada that's why I think a lot of people don't associate with the anthem. A lot of the immigrants had trouble integrating the canadian culture and already with two distinct nations populating the same country a lot of people feel more quebecois, indian, or chinese etc.
No , I understand what you're saying.

I'm not an immigrant, and I can't think of how it makes them feel or not feel. Not that I don't care or don't recognize, but I feel proud and I love it. I'm not dismissing your comment, but this is my perspective. I've been born and raised in this country and this athem is assoiciated with my pride. Nothing will change that.


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Old
04-24-2006, 10:39 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BURY
I just find them completely useless and that's my way of protesting.
The anthem isn't going to notice (or care) about your 'protest'. But the people for whom this 'respect' thing is important will be offended by your action. They'll mostly find it rude. Unless you have some deeper objection than laziness or some post-nationalistic global consciousness crap, I think you should do what everyone else is doing.

If you're looking for a 'use' for the anthem, I'll give you one. It brings everyone together in a rousing loud cheer that gets the crowd even more pumped up for the start of the game. Once you've been loud and cheery once in the evening, it's that much easier to keep it going.

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04-24-2006, 10:43 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by RalfTheWiseNPowerful
The anthem isn't going to notice (or care) about your 'protest'. But the people for whom this 'respect' thing is important will be offended by your action. They'll mostly find it rude. Unless you have some deeper objection than laziness or some post-nationalistic global consciousness crap, I think you should do what everyone else is doing.


1- It starts with one people it ends with thousands. I'm doing this as my way of protesting and I'm sure if many people did the same they'd just skip the anthems. I'm not saying people will do because I'm sure a lot of people love them but that's my opinion.

2- I fail to see how protesting in a pacific manner is rude

3- post-nationalistic global consciousness crap ?


Last edited by BURY: 04-24-2006 at 10:50 AM.
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Old
04-24-2006, 10:44 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Brandi
No , I understand what you're saying.

I'm not an immigrant, and I can't think of how it makes them feel or not feel. Not that I don't care or don't recognize, but I feel proud and I love it. I'm not dismissing your comment, but this is my perspective. I've been born and raised in this country and this athem is assoiciated with my pride. Nothing will change that.
That's great I respect that

People have different point of views and if you respect mine I'll respect yours

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04-24-2006, 10:59 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BURY
That's great I respect that

People have different point of views and if you respect mine I'll respect yours

Absolutely. Let's just agree to cheer for the Sens . This may ential us losing our voices, but hey, it's worth it right?

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Old
04-24-2006, 11:05 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BURY
I don't wanna start a big debate on this but the problem with the Canadian anthem is that we have no identity. We have never been able to build an identity in Canada that's why I think a lot of people don't associate with the anthem. A lot of the immigrants had trouble integrating the canadian culture and already with two distinct nations populating the same country a lot of people feel more quebecois, indian, or chinese etc.
This is a big misconception. The more I travel, the clearer my Canadian identity becomes. What we don't do in Canada is constantly glorify ourselves. We don't do much national PR and brand strengthening marketing the way they do in the States. I don't know why but that is also part of our identity.

We are low-key, understated and polite. If you bump into someone in an airport in Germany and they said 'sorry', you've probably just met another Canadian. Canada is a fusion of British manners (toned-down), American practicality, and French collectivism. We're very global in outlook and very generous in our approach to the world.

We've got some things worked out that other nations are still completely clueless on. Canada has significantly more immigration than comparable Western democracies. In every other country immigration (as a concept) has less than 40% approval rating. In Canada it's over 80%.

We don't demand immigrants leave their culture behind. We invite them to add it to Canada's.

Our military history is full of remarkable events and very courageous actions.

Our political history is ... bizarre. We didn't fight for independance, we politely asked for it while demonstrating the maturity to handle it. Maybe it's because I am Canadian, but I am proud of our mostly non-violent political past.

And then there's the trees, don't forget all the trees.

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04-24-2006, 11:16 AM
  #32
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And then there's the trees, don't forget all the trees.
And Mr. Sub

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04-24-2006, 11:19 AM
  #33
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I lived overseas for much of my childhood and was very patriotic as a result.

Attending international schools and interacting with people from a wide variety of nations helps formulate your national identity in a real hurry. Plus, you don't really appreciate something properly until it is gone.

Naturally, I've returned to Germany many times since then, and am always surprised by how much more "Canadian/American" it is with each return. The globalization of culture and language has much to do with that.

But living in Canada, with the US next door, can make it difficult at times to identify what being Canadian is all about.

Obviously, there is a rational part of me that both laughs at notions of nationalism (I may have more in common with someone from Vermont than someone from Alberta) and is fearful of it (why should you treat someone else as anything less or differently because they happened to be born elsewhere).

But when you're living in a different culture, sometimes it's nice to sit down with your fellow Canadians and you'd be surprised how much you do actually have in common and how much you miss Canadian society, for all of its benefits and faults.

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04-24-2006, 11:22 AM
  #34
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And Mr. Sub

and Stompin Tom Conners

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04-24-2006, 11:28 AM
  #35
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It was so quiet I could actually hear the air coming out of the vents.

No lie.
Me too. It was nice.

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04-24-2006, 11:42 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
I lived overseas for much of my childhood and was very patriotic as a result.

Attending international schools and interacting with people from a wide variety of nations helps formulate your national identity in a real hurry. Plus, you don't really appreciate something properly until it is gone.

Naturally, I've returned to Germany many times since then, and am always surprised by how much more "Canadian/American" it is with each return. The globalization of culture and language has much to do with that.

But living in Canada, with the US next door, can make it difficult at times to identify what being Canadian is all about.

Obviously, there is a rational part of me that both laughs at notions of nationalism (I may have more in common with someone from Vermont than someone from Alberta) and is fearful of it (why should you treat someone else as anything less or differently because they happened to be born elsewhere).

But when you're living in a different culture, sometimes it's nice to sit down with your fellow Canadians and you'd be surprised how much you do actually have in common and how much you miss Canadian society, for all of its benefits and faults.
I can't agree more. I just fail to see what is our Canadian identity. People in this country imo are not able to blend together to form an identity. We each are a pieze of the puzzle and we just don't mix together.

That's how I see it, a cultural mosaic with no real identity.

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Old
04-24-2006, 11:46 AM
  #37
NyQuil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BURY
I can't agree more. I just fail to see what is our Canadian identity. People in this country imo are not able to blend together to form an identity. We each are a pieze of the puzzle and we just don't mix together.

That's how I see it, a cultural mosaic with no real identity.
The same thing applies to most countries.

Immigration does not only occur in Canada.

Many European countries are wrestling with this very concept, some of which in rather violent fashion (as in France).

I'm not sure you've travelled broadly enough if you feel that there is this seamless "identity" out there.

In Germany, there are significant cultural schisms between North and South Germans, not to mention the newly reunited East and West, and that's without taking into account some of the more prominent immigrant communities like the Turks.

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Old
04-24-2006, 11:58 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by NyQuil
Many European countries are wrestling with this very concept, some of which in rather violent fashion (as in France).
France is exactly my example. When you move to France, it doesn't matter where you're from : you become French. You drink wine, eat baguettes and wear a beret.

Now I'm not saying that's the way to go, they're having problems like you mentionned but this is one way to create an identity. Up to a couple of years ago this was working just fine. You moved to France you became french with those tags.

I just think that's one way of forming an identity. The other one is like the americans are doing. The melting pot, everybody jump in and add their flavour. That's what we've been trying to do in Canada but I don't think it worked because the immigrants didn't integrate very well to the Canadian culture.

Now these arguments are all from 2 of my political science teacher at the U of O, I love to argue but I'm done for now. Study time

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04-24-2006, 12:10 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BURY
France is exactly my example. When you move to France, it doesn't matter where you're from : you become French. You drink wine, eat baguettes and wear a beret.
You could say everyone in Canada drinks beer, eats Tim Hortons/Dunkin donuts and wears a toque. That's as applicable a description as yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BURY
Now I'm not saying that's the way to go, they're having problems like you mentionned but this is one way to create an identity. Up to a couple of years ago this was working just fine. You moved to France you became french with those tags.
And yet, Parisians look down on anyone outside of Paris. Southern French (Marseilles, Nice) are much different from those from Alsace-Lorraine. You're looking at the French culture from an outsider's perspective, while looking at the Canadian culture from an insider's perspective.

Sure, they band together on Bastille Day and during the World Cup and such, but that's hardly different from Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BURY
The other one is like the americans are doing. The melting pot, everybody jump in and add their flavour. That's what we've been trying to do in Canada but I don't think it worked because the immigrants didn't integrate very well to the Canadian culture.
The melting pot works because it's an ideological principle, not a cultural one. Immigrants go to the United States because they believe in the Horatio Alger myth/dream of equality of opportunity. They don't go to the US for the baseball and hot dogs, but for materialistic success associated with unbridled capitalism.

Canada doesn't associate its culture with this economic precept. It's not ingrained in our culture that "Go to Canada and become rich", even though our economy is not all that differently structured from the US.

Multi-culturalism, while implemented relatively recently, is an outgrowth of the dualism that originated from the Anglo/Franco split. Comparing ourselves with centralist and unitary countries like France and Sweden is not very applicable, even as these countires are hardly as seamless culturally as you are implying.

Canada has deliberately AVOIDED the melting pot approach in favor of the "multi-culturalism" approach. This is why we have so-called "hyphenated Canadians" while Americans don't tend to have that labeling issue to the same extent. If anything, multiculturalism is a somewhat artificial policy creation which seems to be an intentional attempt to differentiate ourselves from the Americans.

In theory, however, they are supposed to be able to live their lives in the cultural groups of their choosing while abiding under Canadians laws and the Charter. The melting pot does not empower individual cultural groups and instead places the emphasis on the individual. It's more of a matter of formal recognition than anything else. The implied message behind the two philosophies is that the multiculturalist approach regards assimilation in a negative light while the melting pot considers assimilation in a positive one.

For a better parallel, how do we compare with Belgium? Or Switzerland? They are also divided on regional and linguistic lines and it is also difficult to really pin down their national identity. Go to Brussels and then Antwerp and you'll see a dramatic difference. Or drive through the various regions of Switzerland. Quiche for breakfast, and then pasta in the afternoon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BURY
Now these arguments are all from 2 of my political science teacher at the U of O, I love to argue but I'm done for now. Study time
I'm a politics (and biochemistry) graduate myself. Good luck on exams. Remember, tell your prof exactly what they want to hear and you'll get better marks.


Last edited by NyQuil: 04-24-2006 at 12:48 PM.
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