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JVR traded to Toronto for Luke Schenn

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07-16-2012, 11:39 AM
  #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Well you can say the same about Luke Schenn here.


JVR will receive more ice/pp time so he should improve just on that alone, but they aren't doing the kid any favors by attempting to try him at center right off the bat.
Yeah but for some reason I think Luke Schenn has more character to overcome the scrutiny here than JVR does in Toronto and I totally agree they are already setting him up poorly.

I like JVR and he has off the charts potential but he needs that extra oomph to his character/determination that seems too inconsistent. Maybe with more maturity that will come but it's definitely not an innate thing with him like with Giroux and now supposedly Cousins and Laughton who just have a passion for the game.

It seems the Flyers still have doubts about his mental fortitude and they have been pretty good of late with profiling players and their resolve...

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07-16-2012, 11:42 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Coburn wears 5. Schenn is wearing 22.
No way!

I hope he does well. I always believed that Luke would develop into a nightmare playoff performer.

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07-16-2012, 11:54 AM
  #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Yeah but for some reason I think Luke Schenn has more character to overcome the scrutiny here than JVR does in Toronto and I totally agree they are already setting him up poorly.

I like JVR and he has off the charts potential but he needs that extra oomph to his character/determination that seems too inconsistent. Maybe with more maturity that will come but it's definitely not an innate thing with him like with Giroux and now supposedly Cousins and Laughton who just have a passion for the game.

It seems the Flyers still have doubts about his mental fortitude and they have been pretty good of late with profiling players and their resolve...
That's what I thought about him from the get-go. First he wanted to play in college against the Flyers wishes IIRC (they either only wanted him to play one year or not at all, don't remember exactly), which is not a huge deal but it raises some issues about his desire to do what is necessary to make it to the next level (i.e. what the organization that drafted you tells you to do). Then I saw him play in his first couple games with the Phantoms in person and you could tell that he was hesitant to go into the corners or make the tough plays. It may have been nerves or just inexperience, but it still raises some flags. In the NHL he didn't seem to have any issues with these things, but those first impressions can be telling of a young player like JvR. Like you said, the kid has a ton of potential, but not everyone reaches their potential just because they have it.

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07-16-2012, 11:57 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That's what I thought about him from the get-go. First he wanted to play in college against the Flyers wishes IIRC (they either only wanted him to play one year or not at all, don't remember exactly), which is not a huge deal but it raises some issues about his desire to do what is necessary to make it to the next level (i.e. what the organization that drafted you tells you to do). Then I saw him play in his first couple games with the Phantoms in person and you could tell that he was hesitant to go into the corners or make the tough plays. It may have been nerves or just inexperience, but it still raises some flags. In the NHL he didn't seem to have any issues with these things, but those first impressions can be telling of a young player like JvR. Like you said, the kid has a ton of potential, but not everyone reaches their potential just because they have it.
I know management wasn't thrilled about his College decision....and I do think he lacks innate motivation to tap his full potential..at least consistently but I do wish the best for him b/c he is fun to watch when he's got it all going. The injuries last year were just a death wish for him here...

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07-16-2012, 12:15 PM
  #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Yeah but for some reason I think Luke Schenn has more character to overcome the scrutiny here than JVR does in Toronto and I totally agree they are already setting him up poorly.

I like JVR and he has off the charts potential but he needs that extra oomph to his character/determination that seems too inconsistent. Maybe with more maturity that will come but it's definitely not an innate thing with him like with Giroux and now supposedly Cousins and Laughton who just have a passion for the game.

It seems the Flyers still have doubts about his mental fortitude and they have been pretty good of late with profiling players and their resolve...
I don't know how you measure who has more character. The last sentence is funny considering the players they thought couldn't win a thing here immediately won elsewhere.

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07-16-2012, 12:26 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I don't know how you measure who has more character. The last sentence is funny considering the players they thought couldn't win a thing here immediately won elsewhere.
They have their means of measurement when they conduct interviews etc ...it's not something impossible.

Oh I see back to the Carter and Richards meme if that is what you are implying?

......they won elsewhere for a host of reasons and it's not worth rehashing that debate. They no longer fit in here and they needed to be moved but people keep holding on to the fantasy that they could have accomplished here what they did in LA. Sure at certain points when they were here like 2010 but not going forward..hence the decision to trade them.

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07-16-2012, 01:48 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
They have their means of measurement when they conduct interviews etc ...it's not something impossible.

Oh I see back to the Carter and Richards meme if that is what you are implying?

......they won elsewhere for a host of reasons and it's not worth rehashing that debate. They no longer fit in here and they needed to be moved but people keep holding on to the fantasy that they could have accomplished here what they did in LA. Sure at certain points when they were here like 2010 but not going forward..hence the decision to trade them.
Teams get to know their character, yes, but how do you measure character to say Luke Schenn has more?

I don't care to rehash the dabate either. I just couldn't disagree more with that statement.

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07-16-2012, 02:22 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Teams get to know their character, yes, but how do you measure character to say Luke Schenn has more?

I don't care to rehash the dabate either. I just couldn't disagree more with that statement.
My personal assessment is not scientific..so don't go by me although I'm just gauging it from Toronto fans who seemed to endorse him as a person with a lot of integrity and character. This is not to say JVR is not lacking in it off the ice as well with respect to being a model citizen off the ice but on the ice he just seemed to show a lack of fortitude (although last year he was injured so can't judge him completely or fairly) whereas from my standpoint Schenn was misused and just tried to do too much but it was not for lack of fortitude from what I can gather so far. I mean I def think Schenn is more hard-nosed than JVR. Maybe I'm off base in my opinion.

As far as the Flyers assessment they probably have way more insight into JVR and I'm sure their scouts assessed Schenn's character via much more professional means. I mean the Devils have that down to a science ...they interview players and scout them to ensure they are willing to work within their system. That's why their players are always interchangeable it seems. I think the Flyers approach it differently but judging by the success they have had with late round picks..they seem to have a pretty decent idea of distinguishing between a Richards type player and a Zherdev...with the occassional outlier like a JVR possibly...who was chosen mostly b/c it was a weak draft after Kane and him...

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07-16-2012, 04:06 PM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Yeah but for some reason I think Luke Schenn has more character to overcome the scrutiny here than JVR does in Toronto and I totally agree they are already setting him up poorly.

I like JVR and he has off the charts potential but he needs that extra oomph to his character/determination that seems too inconsistent. Maybe with more maturity that will come but it's definitely not an innate thing with him like with Giroux and now supposedly Cousins and Laughton who just have a passion for the game.

It seems the Flyers still have doubts about his mental fortitude and they have been pretty good of late with profiling players and their resolve...
I to am rooting for James and I hope this is a win win situation for both clubs. I just think he is one of those young people that take longer to mature than others. But there have been whispers in the organization for some time about his mental fortitude. With Schenn, I do not as this as being a problem. To be 18 and play in that city speaks volumes about the young man's maturity. But back to JVR. I do not like him at center. Wing is where he belongs for now. It will be interesting to see how he does in that circus up there. I wish him well.

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07-16-2012, 10:52 PM
  #885
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I just traded JvR and Ellis for Blum, Harding and Trochek (prospect).

Safe to say I think the Flyers should have gotten more than Schenn.

(Ironically the GM originally offered me Schenn who he owned after the deal in the NHL went down. Response, no, I think the Flyers should have gotten more.)

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07-19-2012, 03:56 PM
  #886
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The rainbows and sunshine it gives you thinking how this eventually lands us Shea Weber is all well and good, but I'm more concerned about the present; the present being Schenn's weight problem.
Hi Chris, not trolling, just, for some reason, feeling all rainbows and sunshiny today.

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07-19-2012, 03:58 PM
  #887
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Hi Chris, not trolling, just, for some reason, feeling all rainbows and sunshiny today.
We all forgot about Homer's love of going full "WILD CARD!" on the league, apparently.

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07-19-2012, 04:00 PM
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Hi Chris, not trolling, just, for some reason, feeling all rainbows and sunshiny today.
Touche.

LSchenn can be as fat as he wants if it lands us Weber. I'll drive him to Pat's personally.

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07-19-2012, 04:05 PM
  #889
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Touche.

LSchenn can be as fat as he wants if it lands us Weber. I'll drive him to Pat's personally.
LMFAO! Whale on the bench!

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07-19-2012, 04:07 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
We all forgot about Homer's love of going full "WILD CARD!" on the league, apparently.
Well, between last year's shock and this years' awe, Homer, and Snider too, certainly can't be accused of timidity. They have very big beachballs....

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07-19-2012, 04:09 PM
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Well, between last year's shock and this years' awe, Homer, and Snider too, certainly can't be accused of timidity. They have very big beachballs....
I have my gripes, but lack of courage will NEVER be among them. I'll never accuse them of being boring, either. "Are you not entertained? Is this not why you're here!?"

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07-19-2012, 08:03 PM
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This deal really makes you wonder how long the Flyers have been looking into acquiring Weber, and whether picking up Luke Schenn was a way for the Flyers to ensure that he wanted to come here. Could be quite the long-con by Homer

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07-19-2012, 09:25 PM
  #893
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I was a leaf fan, quit and became a Flyers fan as of 45 minutes ago. Honest opinion about him I'll write.

Had a good rookie year. Solid, for a rookie, made mistakes here and there but expected.

-Sophmore year: slow, decising making was really slow, healthy scratch a couple times. Sophmore slump happend.

3rd year: would give him A- overall. Physical, made good decisions with the puck and also poised. His skating while never strongest point of his game, was solid. He didn't get his 3 million something hit for being terrible like he was in his 4th year. Looked like a legit #2-3 shutdown defencemen.

4th year: He said he got bigger but somehow that made him really slow. When forwards made quick turns coming at full speed, he always got beat. He was also mostly out of position and missed his "man" plenty of times. His decision making was also slow and lost his confidence with Wilson. But coming into camp in the shape he was, was his fault. Wilson system was never good for the Leaf team anyway, but considering Schenn had both success and failure with Wilson, this year was on Schenn.

Bottom line: needs to cut down on his weight. Really needs to work on skating. His decision making might be because of confidence issues, or he may never develop that part of the game and be a average 2nd pairing defencemen. I don't know how much upside JVR has, but Schenn's worse is a liability opposed to an injured JVR.

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07-20-2012, 08:36 AM
  #894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan941 View Post
This deal really makes you wonder how long the Flyers have been looking into acquiring Weber, and whether picking up Luke Schenn was a way for the Flyers to ensure that he wanted to come here. Could be quite the long-con by Homer
At the same time, I feel like JVR would be the perfect guy to use to sweeten the pot for Nashville. It's almost too bad that Holmgren couldn't have waited to make this trade until after his dealings around Weber went down. We know Nashville will want/does want at least one, probably two forwards. I think a deal structured around JVR -- who is good friends with Colin Wilson -- would have been better used here. If the offer sheet/trade around Weber fails, then you trade for Schenn.

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07-20-2012, 09:02 AM
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At the same time, I feel like JVR would be the perfect guy to use to sweeten the pot for Nashville. It's almost too bad that Holmgren couldn't have waited to make this trade until after his dealings around Weber went down. We know Nashville will want/does want at least one, probably two forwards. I think a deal structured around JVR -- who is good friends with Colin Wilson -- would have been better used here. If the offer sheet/trade around Weber fails, then you trade for Schenn.
Doesn't matter what Nashville wants now...they are not in a position of leverage. All they have is their matching rights and their real world situation financially suggests that is backed by nothing but bluster. Poile gets what Holmgren wants him to get....that was the whole idea in tendering the offer sheet since Poile apparently was asking for Schenn and Couturier. Holmgren gave him ample opportunity to be more reasonable and when Poile acted like he had some leverage Holmgren decided to call his bluff and expose him....good move by Holmgren. Poile now looks like Howson....prolly worse considering the Suter fiasco.

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07-20-2012, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Doesn't matter what Nashville wants now...they are not in a position of leverage. All they have is their matching rights and their real world situation financially suggests that is backed by nothing but bluster. Poile gets what Holmgren wants him to get....that was the whole idea in tendering the offer sheet since Poile apparently was asking for Schenn and Couturier. Holmgren gave him ample opportunity to be more reasonable and when Poile acted like he had some leverage Holmgren decided to call his bluff and expose him....good move by Holmgren. Poile now looks like Howson....prolly worse considering the Suter fiasco.
I am not necessarily disputing whether or not it was a good move. I'm looking at the bigger picture this summer.

A Schenn trade wasn't imminent, so it's a trade that could've been made a month or two later. From the accounts that we've read, the Poile-Holmgren trade talks reached an impasse, and Holmgren got frustrated and sent the sheet. I would rather have JVR in the pool of sacrificial forwards so that he is the first person in discussions as opposed to Schenn/Couturier, that's all I'm saying.

And you can say 'Poile gets what Holmgren wants him to get' -- that's fine, but the bottom line is, Poile can still match the offer and it's case closed. I actually think (maybe more hope) that Weber winds up a Flyer but after we send something else the other way.

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07-20-2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I am not necessarily disputing whether or not it was a good move. I'm looking at the bigger picture this summer.

A Schenn trade wasn't imminent, so it's a trade that could've been made a month or two later. From the accounts that we've read, the Poile-Holmgren trade talks reached an impasse, and Holmgren got frustrated and sent the sheet. I would rather have JVR in the pool of sacrificial forwards so that he is the first person in discussions as opposed to Schenn/Couturier, that's all I'm saying.

And you can say 'Poile gets what Holmgren wants him to get' -- that's fine, but the bottom line is, Poile can still match the offer and it's case closed. I actually think (maybe more hope) that Weber winds up a Flyer but after we send something else the other way.
I'm sure Holmgren already offered Poile JVR in initial trade talks they most likely had. Poile like everybody else probably kept insisting on Couts and Schenn..so Holmgren had a buyer in Toronto for JVR and went with it instead of wasting more time haglging with Poile and other teams like Columbus, Phoenix and Anaheim. Burke seemed like the only one enamored with JVR. Then Holmgren kicked the tires again most likely on Weber, Nash, Ryan and Yandle and nobody would budge on what they wanted back (again prolly Couts and Schenn). Finally, Holmgren used Comcast's vault and pulled out the nuclear option and he did so knowing the financial duress that Nash is in. Yeah Poile can close the case by matching but it's most likely a bluff and Holmgren is calling him on it. Poile no matter what is the one operating from a position of weakness...

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07-20-2012, 09:56 AM
  #898
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"Are you not entertained? Is this not why you're here!?"
It's never boring being a Flyers fan, that's for sure.

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07-29-2012, 11:20 AM
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Bauer Hockey posted these on Twitter from the Bauer Pro Camp:







Source: https://twitter.com/bauerhockey/ and http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/0...r-new-jerseys/

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07-29-2012, 11:23 AM
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Bauer Hockey posted these on Twitter from the Bauer Pro Camp:




Source: https://twitter.com/bauerhockey/ and http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/0...r-new-jerseys/
Observations:

1. I was expecting them to rock the "B. SCHENN" and "L. SCHENN" on the back of their sweaters. Fun surprise.

2. This is dumb, but I wonder why Brayden's nameplate background is longer than Luke's despite having the same letters. Weird.

K, I'm done now. Thanks for posting!

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