I'm not sure I would either. If Stafford is here this year, and he and Ennis are both healthy, I'd bet he outscores Ryan this year, maybe by a lot. You know you have the chemistry here, with Ryan it's a question mark. Plus he's cheaper. And I have to say, Ryan's physical play is being overstated.
Ryan had 113 credited hits last year. Stafford had 102. Pretty close. That obviously doesn't tell the whole story, but it's something.
We are going hard after Bobby Ryan seeing as how Shane Doan wants nothing to do with us. Would this be an acceptable trade package to land Ryan?
Drew Stafford RW
Luke Adam C
Daniel Catenacci C (2011 3rd Round Pick)
Mark Pysyk D (Replacement for Justin Schultz)
2014 1st Round Pick
FOR
Bobby Ryan LW
Andrew Cogliano LW
We don't give up Ennis/Hodgson/Foligno Also we don't part Andej Sekera Tell me what you think too little too much just right
that would probably get it done but I would hesitate to pull the trigger on that one. That's 2 tier 1 prospects, a proven 30 goal winger, AND a 1st?? I like Ryan and Coliano is good too, but man....
...So i like Pominville , Adam, Sekera and 2013 1st for Ryan
Pominville is more productive pt wise and better defensively, but less physical and four years older. They have almost an identical cap hit and rarely miss games. Those two players have about as even a trade value as possible. Who else is Anaheim adding in for Adam, Sekera, and a 1st????
They could take any 2 of Stafford, Pominville, Hodgson, Ennis and Sekera as far as I'm concerned. Plus a pick or prospect. Although I doubt they'd be interested in that sort of package.
They could take any 2 of Stafford, Pominville, Hodgson, Ennis and Sekera as far as I'm concerned. Plus a pick or prospect. Although I doubt they'd be interested in that sort of package.
You'd be willing to offer Ennis + Hodgson + a pick/prospect for Bobby Ryan?
Stafford isn't in the same league as Ryan ....nothing lite about it. Hodgson isnt a "top center" .. and i already said i'd look to change the Sekera piece ... I dn't think Anaheim has a need for Sekera anyways.
Personally I'd do something like Hodgson, Adam, 1st, 3rd and Leino (to get them closer to cap floor if they'd agree =) )
Hodgson is OUR top center, stafford isnt in the same league? Im not gonna bother arguing because many people have already put up the stats differences.
Our roster would be an absoulte mess after the original trade
Why must the Ducks get a 2C from us? Why can't we trade for Ryan and then at the same time, the Ducks work a deal to add a 2C from another using some of the assets acquired from us. Does not have to be a 2 team deal. A third team could be part of the process.
Why must the Ducks get a 2C from us? Why can't we trade for Ryan and then at the same time, the Ducks work a deal to add a 2C from another using some of the assets acquired from us. Does not have to be a 2 team deal. A third team could be part of the process.
Stafford Buf 1st to Col
Stastny Col 1st Gerbe to Ana
Ryan to Buf
Terrible at judging value but something around that?
And now that I think about it , Stafford and Adam > Ryan.
Last year combined they scored 70 points compared to Ryans 57. So that makes them better and more productive ( completely joking but just using a comparison that you made Jame last week saying Anisimov and Dubinsky were better and more productive then Vanek since those 2 scored 70 points combined against Vaneks 61... But I'm sure now you'll say it doesn't count since that stance goes against your guy )
There's no denying Ryan is better then Stafford but he isn't THAT much better. Stafford also gets 1:30 less a game the last 2 years compared to Ryan and you know, the whole line mate thing.
over the last 3 years..
Dubinsky averages 20 goals per 82 games
Vanek averages 30 goals per 82 games
So I guess per your logic... you'd rather have Dubinsky++ over vanek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley
Not true. Vanek averages exactly 10 more goals a season then Dubinskyover the last 3 seasons.That's pretty big, but let's not overrate Vanek too much. Dubinsky makes 3 million less a year.
The difference between Vanek and Dubisnky is NOT Stepan+1st+Hagelin+Dubinsky type deals, not at all. I'd take JT Miller and a 1st along with Dubinsky, which is more then fair.
Bobby Ryan is a better hockey player then Thomas Vanek.
Going out on the trade boards and making comparisons of Ryan to Stafford makes you look like just another HF homer.
I'm not sure I would either. If Stafford is here this year, and he and Ennis are both healthy, I'd bet he outscores Ryan this year, maybe by a lot. You know you have the chemistry here, with Ryan it's a question mark. Plus he's cheaper. And I have to say, Ryan's physical play is being overstated.
if anything... it's understated.
but you'd have to watch him play a little more
(clearly you don't watch much)
They could take any 2 of Stafford, Pominville, Hodgson, Ennis and Sekera as far as I'm concerned. Plus a pick or prospect. Although I doubt they'd be interested in that sort of package.
This board makes me scratch my head sometimes. We've gone from "I wouldn't trade Stafford for Ryan straight up" insanity earlier in the threat to "I'd move a combination that could be something like Ennis, Hodgson, and a first but doubt the Ducks would be interested." Let's just say that if you offered Ennis, Hodgson, and a first to the Ducks right now the deal would have been done yesterday.
They could take any 2 of Stafford, Pominville, Hodgson, Ennis and Sekera as far as I'm concerned. Plus a pick or prospect. Although I doubt they'd be interested in that sort of package.
Stafford is 26 and he will get better. Stafford hasn't played with getzlaf and perry. If he did play with them he would also have 4 30 goal seasons. Stafford is not better but you guys are over estimating the S*** out of Ryan. Trading away Stafford, Sekera, Adam, and a first is crazy! You give up a VERY solid top 6 forward who is 26 on a pretty reasonable contract. You also give up Sekera who is one of our best 3 dmen on a great contract, again he is 26. One of our top prospects and a first round pick in a stronger draft. We are good at drafting and you want to give up a 1st in a strong draft plus two very good and young roster players plus a top prospect for maybe a little bit better production and a little higher ceiling...you guys are NUTS! This hurts our team in the short term and long term!!!!!!!!!!
Why must the Ducks get a 2C from us? Why can't we trade for Ryan and then at the same time, the Ducks work a deal to add a 2C from another using some of the assets acquired from us. Does not have to be a 2 team deal. A third team could be part of the process.
I could absolutely get behind this
Staff+Adam/Pysyk (either both of them or just one of them, depends what ducks want) +1st for Ryan (not sure how that value sounds)
then flip part of that trade to someone else, along with someone anaheim already has, for a 2c
that would probably get it done but I would hesitate to pull the trigger on that one. That's 2 tier 1 prospects, a proven 30 goal winger, AND a 1st?? I like Ryan and Coliano is good too, but man....
Psysk and Adam are not tier 1 prospects and Stafford is not a proven 30 goal winger.
This board makes me scratch my head sometimes. We've gone from "I wouldn't trade Stafford for Ryan straight up" insanity earlier in the threat to "I'd move a combination that could be something like Ennis, Hodgson, and a first but doubt the Ducks would be interested." Let's just say that if you offered Ennis, Hodgson, and a first to the Ducks right now the deal would have been done yesterday.
i think takeo has it right...
fans massively overrate potential, and idiotically underrate proven talent.
go back to 2008/09, and ask yourself if you'd trade Vanek for Gagner, Cogliano, and a 1st?
that would probably get it done but I would hesitate to pull the trigger on that one. That's 2 tier 1 prospects, a proven 30 goal winger, AND a 1st?? I like Ryan and Coliano is good too, but man....
that must be the loosest definition of "tier 1" prospect ever...
If I'm Murray, there's no way I move Ryan for unproven/inconsistent, physically limited players like Ennis and Hodgson. They do have decent upside, but in this discussion, they are comically overrated based on hunches and glimpses. There will be far better deals out there.
If I'm Murray, there's no way I move Ryan for unproven/inconsistent, physically limited players like Ennis and Hodgson. They do have decent upside, but in this discussion, they are comically overrated based on hunches and glimpses. There will be far better deals out there.
They aren't being overrated because of hunches/glimpses, they're being overrated because they're the only top nine centers this team has.
I'm not moving Ennis or Hodgson for Ryan unless I'm getting a center in return. Murray doesn't have centers to spare, ergo Buffalo and Anaheim are not good trade partners. It's simple.
If I'm Murray, there's no way I move Ryan for unproven/inconsistent, physically limited players like Ennis and Hodgson. They do have decent upside, but in this discussion, they are comically overrated based on hunches and glimpses. There will be far better deals out there.
Ennis and Hodgson aren't "overrated" because of omg!potential. They're overvalued because they're the only 2 centers we have on our NHL roster.
Aside: Ennis is fairly proven in the NHL; he's proven he can put up acceptable 2C points, create offense, etc. Hodgson has at least proven he can play in/has a future in the NHL. These aren't entirely unproven commodities.
( completely joking but just using a comparison that you made Jame last week saying Anisimov and Dubinsky were better and more productive then Vanek since those 2 scored 70 points combined against Vaneks 61... But I'm sure now you'll say it doesn't count since that stance goes against your guy ) 
