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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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07-30-2012, 07:19 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
AK didn't go drinking in the POs. That's something the media and fans spread, but it wasn't the truth.
All we actually know is that he missed curfew by an hour. That's it.
The Preds decided to turn it into a big thing and created a distraction. Stupid management.
I watched every Preds game, AK and Radulov created a lot of chances. They were their most dangerous offensive players.
.
Don't be silly. Didn't you knew? Radulov signing with the KHL is clear proof that him and Kostityn let their team down and went drinking.

And Bourque, while no offensive dynamite, is one effective winger that uses his size effectively in his own end with clever positioning.

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07-30-2012, 08:18 AM
  #902
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Really, I can't understand how some people still want Kostitsyn on the Habs. He's been one constant headache every season he played over here, and he's the definition of having all the tools but not the toolbox.

Lot of posters here were crying when he left to Nashville, saying how Nashville is clearly better with Kostitsyn. Guess what? Kostitsyn is still unsigned.

I would sign him 2 or 2,5/year to play on the third and occasionnaly the second line. I would NOT overpay since he can't handle pressure and you can't rely on him. Good riddance if he's not coming back.

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07-30-2012, 08:59 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
AK didn't go drinking in the POs. That's something the media and fans spread, but it wasn't the truth.
All we actually know is that he missed curfew by an hour. That's it.
The Preds decided to turn it into a big thing and created a distraction. Stupid management.
I watched every Preds game, AK and Radulov created a lot of chances. They were their most dangerous offensive players.

As for Bourque, coming to a lower seeded team changes nothing. The problem is he got unfavorable match ups. He will still be bad next year unless we give him weaker minutes.
AK actually could handle those tougher minutes along side Plekanec.
He was seen at a bar.... And he was suspended by his team. But you're right, he probably wasn't drinking.

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07-30-2012, 09:12 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Don't be silly. Didn't you knew? Radulov signing with the KHL is clear proof that him and Kostityn let their team down and went drinking.

And Bourque, while no offensive dynamite, is one effective winger that uses his size effectively in his own end with clever positioning.
They didn't let their team down, the Preds lead themselves down. So they were late by an hour, boohoo. Cut their PP or ice time. Bench them for a period. Suspending them when down 2-0 was a useless risk. Scratching them the next game was just dumb. I didn't think Trotz was going to do this.
Were their teammates upset? Didn't seem like it to me. Was their offense better? Nope.
What happened to Suter? Gone. Weber who seems to want out of Nashville since forever, signed an offer sheet that, unfortunately for him, was matched.
Really, this was way too overblown.


As for Bourque, no idea what you're saying. He didn't use anything effectively last year.

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07-30-2012, 09:12 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
He was seen at a bar....
By whom exactly, and was it before or after curfew when they actually saw him there?

If you don't know the specific answers to those details, your speculation is no better/worse than that of anyone to whom you're replying here.

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07-30-2012, 09:13 AM
  #906
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As for Bourque, no idea what you're saying. He didn't use anything effectively last year.
Or the roughly year and a half before that, either. But the hockeyreference.com brigade will try to convince you differently, of course.

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07-30-2012, 09:44 AM
  #907
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AK is the perfect example of a mismanaged player with the habs.
Give me a freaking break. The guy played almost 400 games with us! 400! Under about five different coaches and two different GMs! This isn't some guy we had for 40 games and then cut loose without giving him a chance, or who got mistreated by one coach. He played consistently on the top-two lines, virtually always with our other best players, and got a healthy amount of powerplay time. Then he went to a completely different organization and was basically the exact same player we saw when he was here.
For those people who still think there's some kind of "key" to unlocking Kostitsyn's mythical 80 point potential, give it up already. What you see is what you get - flashes of brilliance and long stretches of frustration.

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07-30-2012, 09:45 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
AK didn't go drinking in the POs. That's something the media and fans spread, but it wasn't the truth.
All we actually know is that he missed curfew by an hour. That's it.
The Preds decided to turn it into a big thing and created a distraction. Stupid management.
I watched every Preds game, AK and Radulov created a lot of chances. They were their most dangerous offensive players.

As for Bourque, coming to a lower seeded team changes nothing. The problem is he got unfavorable match ups. He will still be bad next year unless we give him weaker minutes.
AK actually could handle those tougher minutes along side Plekanec.
Oh, so they just suspended them because they "decided to turn it into a big thing" during a playoff run no less for no apparent reason. Riiiiiight.

It was all over the news, McGuire mentioned that they were seen at a bar. They looked like crap the next game.

Kostistyn was the same way his entire time here. Looked like a guy that had his head elsewhere most of the time. Has all the tools, skills, just not the drive.

And Preds did the right thing. Best forwards or not, team rules are team rules.


Last edited by Jigger77: 07-30-2012 at 12:04 PM.
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Old
07-30-2012, 09:51 AM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Or the roughly year and a half before that, either. But the hockeyreference.com brigade will try to convince you differently, of course.
Fact is, Bourque's ratio of Takeaway/Giveaway is 11th best among our skaters last year, and that is if you count plugs like Blunden, Palushaj, Geoffrion, White and Staubitz. And Sheltered recovering Markov.

Take these out, you end up with only Leblanc, Darche, Desharnaid and Eller who have a better ratio. The guy lacks killer instinct or energy. Doesnt mean he's a complete liability.

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07-30-2012, 10:15 AM
  #910
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AK and Bourque are fairly similar, lazy, streaky, almost useless when not scoring.

Ak is a bit more physical, but Bourque is better defensively, he played on the top 2 units on one of the league's best pk, so at least you can plug Bourque in on the pk on one of his off nights, where as AK would just be glued to the bench.

I think neither of these guys are good enough to help carry a line but are rather complementary guys on a line, AK had his chance, where a Bourque didn't, he played mainly with Plek and a rotating 4th line on RW, with Gionta coming back health, with Gionta coming back I think you'll see Bourque game pick up again.

In regards to AK being mishandled, I don't agree with because AK has always had the same problem with different coaches. But I will say one thing though, on the PP he was misused, he was always on the PP with either kovalev, or Cammy, put guys like to play around the right faceoff dot, so AK was forced to play infront of the net, not his speciality. Coaches should have had him on that spot on a different unit, we were never able to take advantage of his good shot from that spot on the PP.

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07-30-2012, 10:18 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Fact is, Bourque's ratio of Takeaway/Giveaway is 11th best among our skaters last year, and that is if you count plugs like Blunden, Palushaj, Geoffrion, White and Staubitz. And Sheltered recovering Markov.

Take these out, you end up with only Leblanc, Darche, Desharnaid and Eller who have a better ratio. The guy lacks killer instinct or energy. Doesnt mean he's a complete liability.
I don't mean to flame your argument here since I'm not sure I understand it correctly: I don't see, without further explanation, how being 11th on a last place team is a positive argument.

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07-30-2012, 10:21 AM
  #912
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personnaly, I don't like Bourque very much, but I think he's a nice risk to start the season. If he regains his form of a few years back, habs have another big winger who can score, and you can never have enough of that.

If he's like the last 1 1/2 years, then it gives one spot to the most ready youngster to continue the somehow "rebuilt".

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07-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #913
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AK is a perfect example of a serviceable player during his tenure here that is often remembered for what he didn't accomplish rather than what he did. AK was a good top 9 forward for any team. Inconsistent? Sure, but I don't see moen, eller or whoever as consistent difference makers. Sure, there's a certain level of percieved effort we see. I suppose talent doesn't matter though, all we need is hardworking grinders! Really now, Ak is what he is, people not to stop bringing up "all the tools, no toolbox" "inconsistent" etc... The reality is, even without the toolbox, even without consistency he's still a pretty decent player. Would I take him back? I'm not out petitioning for AK, we're turning the page but if i'm a team looking for offensive depth and some physicality in someone who can play top 6 in a pinch, AK is your man.

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07-30-2012, 10:26 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I don't mean to flame your argument here since I'm not sure I understand it correctly: I don't see, without further explanation, how being 11th on a last place team is a positive argument.
11th before you take out the ones that shouldn't really apply. 5th, behind Desharnais, Leblanc, Darche and Eller.

Which isn't that bad. The guy can be useful on a shutdown line. His positioning is pretty good. The only thing lacking is his offensive zone killer instinct and a speed explosion to convert his takeaway himself, rather than relying on a pass.

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07-30-2012, 10:34 AM
  #915
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Really, I can't understand how some people still want Kostitsyn on the Habs. He's been one constant headache every season he played over here, and he's the definition of having all the tools but not the toolbox.

Lot of posters here were crying when he left to Nashville, saying how Nashville is clearly better with Kostitsyn. Guess what? Kostitsyn is still unsigned.

I would sign him 2 or 2,5/year to play on the third and occasionally the second line. I would NOT overpay since he can't handle pressure and you can't rely on him. Good riddance if he's not coming back.
You start off by saying you can't understand why some people still want AK on the Habs.. Then you say "I would sign him 2 or 2,5/year to play on the third and occasionally the second line? So which is it?

Pretty hard to understand others when you can't even understand yourself it seems.

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07-30-2012, 10:34 AM
  #916
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
11th before you take out the ones that shouldn't really apply. 5th, behind Desharnais, Leblanc, Darche and Eller.

Which isn't that bad. The guy can be useful on a shutdown line. His positioning is pretty good. The only thing lacking is his offensive zone killer instinct and a speed explosion to convert his takeaway himself, rather than relying on a pass.
His first few games were pretty good. Drove the net, used his size, speed, shot etc.

Then he floated and it was awful to watch. I'm hoping with the new vibe around the team he plays the way he did during those first few games.

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07-30-2012, 10:37 AM
  #917
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
11th before you take out the ones that shouldn't really apply. 5th, behind Desharnais, Leblanc, Darche and Eller.

Which isn't that bad. The guy can be useful on a shutdown line. His positioning is pretty good. The only thing lacking is his offensive zone killer instinct and a speed explosion to convert his takeaway himself, rather than relying on a pass.
Ok, I see, thanks. True it looks interesting.

But allow me to downplay a bit the takeway/giveaway statistic here. I think its importance all depends on the type of player your judging. Bourque doesn't carry the puck much, as he's more of a north-south, dump the puck type of player, so a lot less incline to do giveways. On the other hand, that stat says a lot about the progress a guy like Desharnais has made, he who carry the puck a lot in the o-zone.

And I don't mind a guy like Cole making lots of giveaways since his style means he'll do a lot. When he drives the net controlling the puck like he does a few times each game, the % of success will be limited, like it is even for 50 goals scorer. So it will end up as a giveaway as most d-men are able to take out the puck. But still, it results in plenty of good scoring chances even when it fails, and thet is exactly what we want from Cole.

If Bourque would use his size to do the same as Cole, he would end up with more giveaways, but would be more useful for the team.

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07-30-2012, 10:39 AM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
His first few games were pretty good. Drove the net, used his size, speed, shot etc.

Then he floated and it was awful to watch. I'm hoping with the new vibe around the team he plays the way he did during those first few games.
Agrees. But my point was, even when be floats and coasts, he is rarely out of position and will be there to block passes or shots. Not as well as other players (*cough* Gorges *cough*) but decently enough.

Obviously, you can probably argue he doesn't get out of position because he never moves his ass in the first place, and that wouldn't be entirely false

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07-30-2012, 10:41 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
AK is a perfect example of a serviceable player during his tenure here that is often remembered for what he didn't accomplish rather than what he did. AK was a good top 9 forward for any team. Inconsistent? Sure, but I don't see moen, eller or whoever as consistent difference makers. Sure, there's a certain level of percieved effort we see. I suppose talent doesn't matter though, all we need is hardworking grinders! Really now, Ak is what he is, people not to stop bringing up "all the tools, no toolbox" "inconsistent" etc... The reality is, even without the toolbox, even without consistency he's still a pretty decent player. Would I take him back? I'm not out petitioning for AK, we're turning the page but if i'm a team looking for offensive depth and some physicality in someone who can play top 6 in a pinch, AK is your man.
You could have put Bourque instead of everytime you wrote AK, and it would still be true.

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07-30-2012, 10:42 AM
  #920
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You could have put Bourque instead of everytime you wrote AK, and it would still be true.
Never argued otherwise.

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07-30-2012, 10:44 AM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Less talented? When was Andrei's first 27 goal season? Bourque had two... I live in Alberta, I see more Flames games than I care to think about. I'd much rather have Bourque. Both guys are streaky and lazy... No arguments there, I've seen Andrei do it with a Habs jersey on for too many years. I have no desire to take him back.
I don't agree. AK is twice the player ourque is. Rene Bourque sucks.

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07-30-2012, 10:46 AM
  #922
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Never argued otherwise.
Didn't mean anything by it

I think it shows that we are still missing a legit top 6 forward. So you can put Bourque on the 3rd line with Eller, and have him step in to the top 6 when injuries occur.

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07-30-2012, 10:49 AM
  #923
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AKost wasn't the worst player on the team. He was traded because several ot his teammates weren't even tradeable. I still think he was worth more than a second round pick from a team that made the playoffs and advanced by one round.

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07-30-2012, 12:04 PM
  #924
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Oh, so they just suspended them because they "decided to turn it into a big thing" during a playoff run no less for no apparent reason. Riiiiiight.

Don't be silly, it was all over the news, McGuire mentioned that they were seen at a bar. They looked like crap the next game.

Kostistyn was the same way his entire time here. Looked like a guy that had his head elsewhere most of the time. Has all the tools, skills, just not the drive.

And Preds did the right thing. Best forwards or not, team rules are team rules.
So you make your own speculations. Fact is, you have absolutely NO CLUE as to whether or not they were actually drinking, and if they were, just how much or how late that carried on for.

McGuire just repeated the rumor that was being spread on facebook.

And no, Preds didn't do the right thing. If you want to send the message, you do it for one game. They did that, and luckily for them, came out on top. Now the team just proved to them that they pulled through without their two best offensive players. You bring them back now with them knowing they have to prove themselves. But instead, you scratch them, the team loses, and you bring them back after because you actually need them. Message wasted.

I also disagree about the timing. The POs, two games down, is not the appropriate time to be sending messages. We're not talking about guys that disrupted the team, we're talking about two guys that got home one hour too late. Let's not make it into something big. Especially when those guys are your two leading scorers, and the team has difficulty scoring. It was a dumb risk and decision on so many levels.

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07-30-2012, 12:07 PM
  #925
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You start off by saying you can't understand why some people still want AK on the Habs.. Then you say "I would sign him 2 or 2,5/year to play on the third and occasionally the second line? So which is it?

Pretty hard to understand others when you can't even understand yourself it seems.
Touché. I guess you can twist it the way you want it, but it's pretty easy to see what I meant. I would give him a cheap contract to play in a bottom 6 role, which is not what Kostitsyn wants neither most of his supporters on this board who would give him top 6 minutes for top 6 money. It's not going to happen, and I'm pretty damn OK with it.

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